Using cordless tool batteries to power a drone

So the question is... Should I order a fat battery holder and sack
my Dewalt 6 amp hour battery. They are 3 amp hour batteries, up from
the 2.5. Maybe I can pull the pack out, get a peek at the part
number, and see what the battery sourcing capability is. I have a
LOT of lithium ion batteries. 









I wrote: 

> Easier to fly than my Rodeo 110. Flew the Runner 250 for a minute
> or two until it started losing power. The batteries were not hot,
> but apparently their ability to source current diminishes quickly
> even though they remain charged. Reconnected and took off again,
> this time confidently applying throttle. It ZOOMED up so I dropped
> the throttle, then experienced the infamous "flip of death" (FOD).
> Messed up a propeller or two. That's enough testing for now. 
> 
> With no load... The batteries started at 4.19 V. Now they are at
> 4.05 V. 
> 
> Apparently the Samsung INR18650-25R will not drive the Runner 250. 

The bulky batteries are
Sanyo NCR20700A









I wrote:

> So the question is... Should I order a fat battery holder and sack
> my Dewalt 6 amp hour battery. They are 3 amp hour batteries, up from
> the 2.5. Maybe I can pull the pack out, get a peek at the part
> number, and see what the battery sourcing capability is. I have a
> LOT of lithium ion batteries. 

John Doe wrote
><698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org> wrote:
>
>> John Doe wroye
>
>>>>> It flew! It flew! My battery pack stayed cool as a cucumber. At
>>>>> first, increasing throttle would not get the drone off of the
>>>>> ground, until after the throttle was turned to 0 and then
>>>>> reapplied. 
>> 
>> How is your flight time compared to the lipos?
>> What drone do you use?
>
>I am using a modified Walkera Runner 250.

Just looked it up, bit cheaper than my Hubsan,
size is about the same I think.


>The unknown electric unicycle 18650 batteries won't work. That flight 
>was extremely short/limited.

I see.
The hubsan uses 2 cell lipos 2700 mAh 7.4V 10C


>The bulky Dewalt 6 amp hour battery (not FLEXVOLT) uses 2 x5 rows of 3 
>amp hour (26650 or close) batteries.
>
>The Dewalt 5 amp hour battery uses 2 x5 rows of 2.5 amp hour 18650 
>batteries (INR18650-25R). That's what I will try now, already have 3 
>prepared and in the charger.
>
>And they just drop into the battery holder.
>
>If they don't work, I might order a battery holder for the bulky 
>batteries. Not sure what they are, but they probably source more 
>current than any of the others. I paid $75 for the battery pack with 
>big, high current, and high capacity genuine batteries.

I used batteries with welded connection strips, they do that on order here.
 http://panteltje.com/pub/li_ion_batteries_IMG_6684.JPG


>Dewalt now has 12 amp hour 20 V MAX batteries. I'm remaking my 
>electric bike, I'll probably add some spacing so it can handle those. 
>That's a whopping 24 amp hours carrying only one spare drill battery.

An other experiment I did was power the drone via a coax cable:
 http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_flight_test_1_IMG_6274.JPG
 http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_test_ground_control_1_IMG_6276.JPG

Couple of hundred volts at 100 kHz over a thin coax, stepdown transformer and rectifier at the drone side:
http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_drone_side_IMG_6278.JPG
 The diodes are in the air stream, and the transformer too on the other side for balance,
battery is in the drone too as backup against power failure.

Unlimited flight time, was intended to put an antenna up there,

John Doe wrote
>So the question is... Should I order a fat battery holder and sack
>my Dewalt 6 amp hour battery. They are 3 amp hour batteries, up from
>the 2.5. Maybe I can pull the pack out, get a peek at the part
>number, and see what the battery sourcing capability is. I have a
>LOT of lithium ion batteries. 

Maybe you have better results with 2 lipos in parallel, works for the Hubsan.

John Doe
>Easier to fly than my Rodeo 110. Flew the Runner 250 for a minute or two 
>until it started losing power. The batteries were not hot, but 
>apparently their ability to source current diminishes quickly even 
>though they remain charged. Reconnected and took off again, this time 
>confidently applying throttle. It ZOOMED up so I dropped the throttle, 
>then experienced the infamous "flip of death" (FOD). Messed up a 
>propeller or two. That's enough testing for now.
>
>With no load... The batteries started at 4.19 V. Now they are at 4.05 V. 
>
>Apparently the Samsung INR18650-25R will not drive the Runner 250.

Looks like you will come to the same conclusion as I did,
lipos are better.

John Doe wrote
>gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote: 
>
>> John Doe wrote: 
>>> <698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org> wrote: 
>>> > John Doe wroye 
>>> 
>>> >>>> It flew! It flew! My battery pack stayed cool as a cucumber.
>>> >>>> At first, increasing throttle would not get the drone off of
>>> >>>> the ground, until after the throttle was turned to 0 and
>>> >>>> then reapplied. 
>>> > 
>>> > How is your flight time compared to the lipos? What drone do
>>> > you use? 
>>> 
>>> I am using a modified Walkera Runner 250. The unknown electric
>>> unicycle 18650 batteries won't work. That flight was extremely
>>> short/limited. 
>>> 
>>> The bulky Dewalt 6 amp hour battery (not FLEXVOLT) uses 2 x5 rows
>>> of 3 amp hour (26650 or close) batteries. 
>>> 
>>> The Dewalt 5 amp hour battery uses 2 x5 rows of 2.5 amp hour
>>> 18650 batteries (INR18650-25R). That's what I will try now,
>>> already have 3 prepared and in the charger. 
>> 
>> If you mean there are 5 cells in series to make nominally 20
>> volts, then these are likely LiIon cells.  I don't know what you
>> have 3 of in the charger.  Is that 3 cells, 3 strings or three
>> battery packs? 
>
>The "INR18650-25R" is a lithium-ion cell.
>I just took three batteries from a cordless drill battery pack.
>Stuck them in my drone battery compartment and now I will go see if it 
>flies.
>
>Further response to the other reply.
>Assuming it flies... Not sure about testing how long, yet. I just 
>recently started flying non-GPS drones. I can barely fly my Rodeo 110 
>around the yard. This will be my first flight with the (old model) 
>Runner 250. 

Yes GPS drones are a lot more stable,
and allow all sort of games, like these:
 http://panteltje.com/panteltje/quadcopter/index.html

And then I am not even mentioning the dark side:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS_K4caj7vc

For that we have a faster plane (160 kmh), axion laser arrow.

 

<698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org> wrote: 

> John Doe wrote 

>>So the question is... Should I order a fat battery holder and sack 
>>my Dewalt 6 amp hour battery. They are 3 amp hour batteries, up
>>from the 2.5. Maybe I can pull the pack out, get a peek at the
>>part number, and see what the battery sourcing capability is. I
>>have a LOT of lithium ion batteries. 
> 
> Maybe you have better results with 2 lipos in parallel, works for
> the Hubsan. 

I have so many spare 18650 batteries (and 3 cell holders), I might do 
that and see if my Runner 250 will cope with the weight. It is chopped 
down otherwise, so who knows. With 2500KV motors it is more than enough 
for me, so this is a good stress test.

The bulky batteries in my Dewalt 6 amp hour pack are Sanyo NCR20700A. 
Looks like they are near the top end for lithium ion current sourcing, 
so I will try those before giving up on 3 in series.

Apparently 20700/21700 battery tray/holder/sled are scarce, but there 
are some single and double battery units on fleaBay so I ordered 3 of 
the singles.


In case anyone does not already know... The diameter of lithium ion 
cells is simply the first two numbers, like 18 or 20 or 26.

Not for lack of interest, but... I just got around to trying the Sanyo 
NCR20700A. This racing drone, in a 7 x 7' area. Seemed more difficult to 
control than last time. It stayed up for maybe two minutes until I 
couldn't handle it (maybe because the propellers are slightly damaged, 
maybe because of the wind currents, maybe because the batteries were 
supplying more power). 

The battery voltage after perhaps two minutes was 4.09, and they were 
still cold. Then again, the Samsung INR18650-25R did not get warm 
either. However, the 18650s did apparently trigger the low-voltage 
warning signal. These didn't.

Will go again later, outside. Will try to measure time hovering in the 
air. Would be nice to have a current meter, but what really matters is 
that the thing works. According to YouTube videos, drones require a 
small amount of current compared to what their reputation claims.

Droning is FASCINATING. The flight simulator aspect is awesome, but 
there is also the science-fiction-like reality. The impact drones will 
have in the not too distant, if not near, future is becoming obvious to 
me. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/?

The minor battery damage was done by DeWalt, when shoving it into their 
battery holder.

A measly six minutes in the air.
The batteries were still cool.
With no load they measured 3.86 volts.
I will note the charge.