On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 19:56:48 +0300, Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> wrote:>On 3.8.18 18:49, bitrex wrote: >> On 08/03/2018 11:45 AM, Rob wrote: >>> bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>> It'll probably be cheaper in parts and labor cost to just buy one off >>>> the shelf, anyway. I mean off the floor. Reinforced concrete floor. >>> >>> :-) >>> Not only in parts and labor cost but also in human lives... >>> >> >> Starting at the output devices is bikeshedding, anyone who was >> serious/non-crazy would be thinking (sleepless nights in horror) at what >> the cost in design time and parts to make a safe reliable PSU for such >> an amplifier would be to start. > >To stay in the style: A sturdy transformer, some mercury-arc rectifiers, >a hefty swinging choke and a bunch of oil capacitors.How about an aviation motor generator with 50/60 Hz (single phase) input and 400 Hz output. It greatly reduces the transformer size (as well as filter capacitor size, in case the 400 Hz is single phase)..
What is the most powerful vacuum tube ever made?
Started by ●August 3, 2018
Reply by ●August 3, 20182018-08-03
Reply by ●August 3, 20182018-08-03
On Friday, 3 August 2018 22:36:32 UTC+1, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:> On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 19:56:48 +0300, Tauno Voipio > <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> wrote: > >On 3.8.18 18:49, bitrex wrote: > >> On 08/03/2018 11:45 AM, Rob wrote: > >>> bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:> >>>> It'll probably be cheaper in parts and labor cost to just buy one off > >>>> the shelf, anyway. I mean off the floor. Reinforced concrete floor. > >>> > >>> :-) > >>> Not only in parts and labor cost but also in human lives... > >>> > >> > >> Starting at the output devices is bikeshedding, anyone who was > >> serious/non-crazy would be thinking (sleepless nights in horror) at what > >> the cost in design time and parts to make a safe reliable PSU for such > >> an amplifier would be to start. > > > >To stay in the style: A sturdy transformer, some mercury-arc rectifiers, > >a hefty swinging choke and a bunch of oil capacitors. > > How about an aviation motor generator with 50/60 Hz (single phase) > input and 400 Hz output. It greatly reduces the transformer size (as > well as filter capacitor size, in case the 400 Hz is single phase)..the efficiency of those things is crappy, you'd lose nearly half the power in it. NT
Reply by ●August 3, 20182018-08-03
On Fri, 03 Aug 2018 01:07:29 -0500, oldschool@tubes.com wrote:>What is the most powerful vacuum tube ever made?Dunno. If you're talking about microwave, it's a Gyrotron: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrotron. Typical max output is 1 megawatt per tube. <https://www.google.com/search?q=gyrotron&tbm=isch>>I'm looking into building the most pewerful tube audio amplifier >possible. I'll be using 4 tubes in push-pull parallel. (per channel). My >goal is at least 5000 watts RMS per channel (if possible). I will likely >rewind some pole pigs (power pole transformers) for output transformers, >and possibly use one of them in reverse for the power supply >transformer, which should supply 3250 to 7500 volts to the plates (or up >to 15KV if I use a different pole pig rated for higher primary voltage).You're probably ok at 3250 to 7500 volts, but 15kV will probably turn your audio amplifier into an x-ray generator. Have your lead shielded underwear handy. If you really want high power audio, what you want is a pneumatic modulator, amplifier, and directional horn: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_gramophone> <https://www.google.com/search?q=auxetophone&tbm=isch> Please note that sound are nothing more than controlled changes in air pressure. You don't need a loudspeaker: <http://wynalazki.andrej.edu.pl/images/duze2/glosnik1.jpg> to do that. Just something that will move lots of air quickly, such as a big air compressor. For example, if you happen to have a 150 horsepower air compressor, and high power fluidics (air is a compressible fluid) modulator and amplifier handy, you can build rather high power sound system: <https://www.psaudio.com/article/the-mother-of-all-speakers-moas/> <http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2008/09/loudest-speaker-in-the-world/> 150 hp * 745 watts/hp = 112,000 watts maximum audio power Actually, it's only about half that, since it takes almost as much power to run the modulator as it does to product the output pressure changes. I worked for a company that built something like that in the 1960's while I was in early college. It was suppose to be used for projecting propaganda recordings at the enemy across the WWII style battlefield. I helped build the calibration lab, so I didn't get to see the monster in action very often. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Reply by ●August 3, 20182018-08-03
lørdag den 4. august 2018 kl. 03.54.17 UTC+2 skrev Jeff Liebermann:> On Fri, 03 Aug 2018 01:07:29 -0500, oldschool@tubes.com wrote: > > >What is the most powerful vacuum tube ever made? > > Dunno. If you're talking about microwave, it's a Gyrotron: > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrotron. > Typical max output is 1 megawatt per tube. > <https://www.google.com/search?q=gyrotron&tbm=isch> >https://www.cpii.com/docs/datasheets/78/8974.pdf "The maximum anode dissipation rating is 1500 kW steady state"
Reply by ●August 3, 20182018-08-03
On Fri, 03 Aug 2018 01:07:29 -0500, oldschool@tubes.com wrote:>What is the most powerful vacuum tube ever made? > >I'm looking into building the most pewerful tube audio amplifier >possible. I'll be using 4 tubes in push-pull parallel. (per channel). My >goal is at least 5000 watts RMS per channel (if possible). I will likely >rewind some pole pigs (power pole transformers) for output transformers, >and possibly use one of them in reverse for the power supply >transformer, which should supply 3250 to 7500 volts to the plates (or up >to 15KV if I use a different pole pig rated for higher primary voltage). >Perhaps not the most powerful tube, the RCA 5831 triode has a lot to offer. With a filament requirement of 6V at 2,220A it can be useful to heat the house as well. With 10 KV on the plates in a push-pull configuration it can deliver about 370 KW which might be sufficient to impress all audiophiles within a radius of ~10 miles, when fitted with appropriate speakers. Complete details about this tube: https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/049/5/5831.pdf
Reply by ●August 4, 20182018-08-04
On Friday, August 3, 2018 at 10:34:50 PM UTC-4, Arid ace wrote:> Perhaps not the most powerful tube, the RCA 5831 triode has a lot to offer. With > a filament requirement of 6V at 2,220A it can be useful to heat the house as > well. With 10 KV on the plates in a push-pull configuration it can deliver about > 370 KW which might be sufficient to impress all audiophiles within a radius of > ~10 miles, when fitted with appropriate speakers. Complete details about this > tube: https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/049/5/5831.pdfHere's a 2,158 KW power tetrode http://www.cpii.com/docs/datasheets/78/8974.pdf A 7.5MW pulse amplifier https://www.sokoll-technologies.de/Museum/Auto/Dokumente/Datenblatt_7835-V1_Burle.pdf Datenblatt_7835-V1_Burle.pdf This should excite the hams. The 1963 RCA Power Tube Catalog https://www.kevinchant.com/uploads/7/1/0/8/7108231/1963_rca_power_tubes_guide.pdf
Reply by ●August 4, 20182018-08-04
On 08/03/2018 05:26 PM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:> On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 15:06:20 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: > >> On 08/03/2018 12:50 PM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote: >>> On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 11:47:41 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 08/03/2018 09:31 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>> On 08/03/2018 06:09 AM, Ian wrote: >>>>>> On 2018-08-03, oldschool@tubes.com <oldschool@tubes.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm looking into building the most pewerful tube audio amplifier >>>>>>> possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sounds like a bit of a Disaster Area in the making... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> And terrible songs! >>>>> >>>>> Maybe the OP is planning to be dead for a year for tax reasons..... >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> >>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>> >>>> >>>> Thinking about the output device specifics is bikeshedding at this point >>>> in the design anyway. If one were serious one would be starting at the >>>> PSU and working forwards. Oh, it's gonna be a complex and glorious PSU >>>> for sure, with a pretty sophisticated fail-safing system, >>>> overvoltage/overcurrent protection, and probably uP-controlled startup >>>> sequencing and bias monitoring. >>> >>> Agreed that the PSU is an issue, if you have only a 50/60 Hz single >>> phase feed, especially due to the lack of high voltage electrolytic >>> capacitors. >>> >>> However, if you have a three phase feed (230/400 V in Europe or >>> 277/480 V in the US) the power supply is trivial. Just put a 6 pulse >>> rectifier after the anode voltage transformer. If you have two >>> secondaries, put one in wye and the other in delta and you can use 12 >>> pulse rectifier, generating smoother DC and reduce the power factor on >>> the primary side. >>> >>> Tubes can take a lot of punishment, so a 30-60 s time delay should be >>> enough, before switching on the anode voltage, when the cathode has >>> reached full operational temperature. >> >> You're certainly going to need some kind of fast-acting overcurrent/bias >> voltage loss detecting system; self-bias is probably a non-starter and >> at those power levels loss of a bias supply will probably be a genuine >> disaster that'll make the local news at least ;-) > > Power the anode supply contactor (relay) from the bias supply. If the > bias is lost, the contactor will release. Since in a 3 phase supply, > typically there are no big capacitor on the DC side, the anode voltage > will drop quite rapidly. As noted previously, tubes can handle some > punishment. >Don't forget to protect yer output driver amp tubes too! They'll likely need a different lower voltage bias supply but for an amp of this size just the driver for the huge final tubes (power triodes, probably?) is gonna be like the equivalent of a Marshall stack amp power stage, maybe bigger. And maybe even the drivers for the drivers.
Reply by ●August 4, 20182018-08-04
On Fri, 03 Aug 2018 18:54:10 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:> >>I'm looking into building the most pewerful tube audio amplifier >>possible. I'll be using 4 tubes in push-pull parallel. (per channel). My >>goal is at least 5000 watts RMS per channel (if possible). I will likely >>rewind some pole pigs (power pole transformers) for output transformers, >>and possibly use one of them in reverse for the power supply >>transformer, which should supply 3250 to 7500 volts to the plates (or up >>to 15KV if I use a different pole pig rated for higher primary voltage). > >You're probably ok at 3250 to 7500 volts, but 15kV will probably turn >your audio amplifier into an x-ray generator. Have your lead shielded >underwear handy.Not an issue with full wave rectified 15 kVac. Below 25kVdc, the X-ray spectrum is just the continuum, above 25 kV nasty discrete X-ray lines will also appear. For this reason the power supply for old shadow mask CRTs also contained a shunt regulator (like the PD500 power triode) to limit the CRT anode voltage to 25 kV.
Reply by ●August 4, 20182018-08-04
They got you beat - https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=general&m=738587 Well it's only 2,000 watts per channel more than you wanted, why not ? I like how it says it was designed for research into high intensity sound. No shit ? Really ? Could it be ? You think ?
Reply by ●August 4, 20182018-08-04
On 08/03/2018 11:53 PM, jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:> They got you beat - > > https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=general&m=738587 > > Well it's only 2,000 watts per channel more than you wanted, why not ? > > I like how it says it was designed for research into high intensity sound. > > No shit ? Really ? Could it be ? You think ? >Here's a homebrew reference design for a 1000 watt monoblock, look at that xfmr just look at the mufucka. It probably cost about a grand. <http://www.chambonino.com/construct/const9.html> OP is talking about building an amp five times that. I can think of better ways to throw money away like buying a boat maybe
