This may not be the appropriate place to post about this. If so, just ignore it, and my apologies. Honda has a dual-mode charging system for US models. When the headlights are on, or any other combination of things that increases the amp draw through the system to a certain point, the computer tells the alernator to put out 14.4V, or thereabouts. But at all other times the alternator puts out about 12.3V. This is done to increase gas mileage. At my last oil change (2012 Civic), the dealer checked out everything, including the battery. They said the battery was ok, but was only 57% charged. It seems to me that this is a direct result of the charging algorithm. Even if the battery was fully charged, which would be a resting voltage of just under 12.7V, if the alternator is told to output only 12.3V, then the battery will be providing all the needed current until it is discharged down to that level, which should happen fairly quickly. My understanding is that lead-acid batteries don't do well being partially charged all the time, not to mention not having as many cranking amps available as you might need. In fact, I replaced the original battery at just under three years. Yet Honda has been doing this dual-mode thing literally for decades. So perhaps I'm wrong about the effect of this system on battery life. The odd thing is - if you want the car to charge the battery, you DO NOT want to shut off the lights, the fan, the radio, etc., because that will just lower the alternator voltage to 12.3V, which won't charge the battery at all. Instead, you want to turn on the headlights - because that will cause the alternator to put out 14.4V, which WILL charge the battery. Can you spell counterintuitive? So one option is just to get a charger, and charge the battery overnight maybe once a week. But another alternative is to modify the current-sensing circuit so the computer thinks the lights are on even when they aren't, so the alternator will stay at 14.4V all time - just like every other car in the world does. But before going down that road, I need to be sure I understand what, if anything, this Honda system is doing to the battery because the modification, which is called the ELD bypass, is a real bear for my model car. And in case you were wondering, it appears that this Honda system doesn't take into account at all the current charge state of the battery. Well, I would appreciate some expert opinion on the effects of having the battery be partially charged all the time. I've read several places online that this promotes sulfation. But it's not clear. It's also not clear whether a weekly full charge would undo the sulfation. Thanks for any advice.
Automotive electronics - Honda charging system
Started by ●December 7, 2016
Reply by ●December 7, 20162016-12-07
On Wed, 07 Dec 2016 11:21:51 -0600, Peabody <waybackNO584SPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote:>This may not be the appropriate place to post about this. If so, just ignore >it, and my apologies. > >Honda has a dual-mode charging system for US models. When the headlights are >on, or any other combination of things that increases the amp draw through >the system to a certain point, the computer tells the alernator to put out >14.4V, or thereabouts. But at all other times the alternator puts out about >12.3V. This is done to increase gas mileage. > >At my last oil change (2012 Civic), the dealer checked out everything, >including the battery. They said the battery was ok, but was only 57% >charged. It seems to me that this is a direct result of the charging >algorithm. Even if the battery was fully charged, which would be a resting >voltage of just under 12.7V, if the alternator is told to output only 12.3V, >then the battery will be providing all the needed current until it is >discharged down to that level, which should happen fairly quickly. > >My understanding is that lead-acid batteries don't do well being partially >charged all the time, not to mention not having as many cranking amps >available as you might need. In fact, I replaced the original battery at >just under three years. Yet Honda has been doing this dual-mode thing >literally for decades. So perhaps I'm wrong about the effect of this system >on battery life. > >The odd thing is - if you want the car to charge the battery, you DO NOT want >to shut off the lights, the fan, the radio, etc., because that will just >lower the alternator voltage to 12.3V, which won't charge the battery at all. >Instead, you want to turn on the headlights - because that will cause the >alternator to put out 14.4V, which WILL charge the battery. Can you spell >counterintuitive? > >So one option is just to get a charger, and charge the battery overnight >maybe once a week. But another alternative is to modify the current-sensing >circuit so the computer thinks the lights are on even when they aren't, so >the alternator will stay at 14.4V all time - just like every other car in the >world does. But before going down that road, I need to be sure I understand >what, if anything, this Honda system is doing to the battery because the >modification, which is called the ELD bypass, is a real bear for my model >car. > >And in case you were wondering, it appears that this Honda system doesn't >take into account at all the current charge state of the battery. > >Well, I would appreciate some expert opinion on the effects of having the >battery be partially charged all the time. I've read several places online >that this promotes sulfation. But it's not clear. It's also not clear >whether a weekly full charge would undo the sulfation. > >Thanks for any advice.At a constant 14.4V setpoint you risk overcharging the battery, particularly in warmer climates/seasons. The correct TC can be seen at... <http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/AlternatorRegulatorTC.pdf> You may be able to buy an off-the-shelf unit to replace the Honda original... depends on how the Honda is wired. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Reply by ●December 7, 20162016-12-07
>"At a constant 14.4V setpoint you risk overcharging the battery,particularly in warmer climates/seasons." Disagree. the most reliable cars I have seen generally charge at like 15.2 when cold, tapering off with temperature of course. You are in Arizona, here it gets down to 0F so we need these batteries charged up, bigtime. And the less the battery is charged the higher the freezing point of the electrolyte. What you say might be alright for the climate where you are, but here even that 5W20 shi9t oil can get so thick it bogs the starter down, especially with the better oil pumps in the newer cars. Another thing that might surprise you is that some cars actually pull more power to run than to start, a sharp contrast to the past. In a V6 you generally have three coils that put out more firing voltage at more current than the old style V8, plus you have six fuel injectors whose current drain is not trivial. The regulation in the older cars when it comes to charging is that you would lose too much water and have to keep adding it to the battery. With the sealed batteries this is not an issue. Of course technically they are more likely to explode but I have not heard of it happening much. Plus the pressure they built up before the electrolyte re-absorbs the gases is really not more dangerous than the hydrogen they used to emit. I think Honda made a mistake doing that. Once out of factory warranty I would find the wire that controls this and make it put out the full voltage all the time. Again, the climate does matter. In Texas or whatever you are probably fine, but in Wisconsin that is another story. You gotta have the starter motor pull that sludge through the oil pump as well as fire ten amps worth of fuel injection just to get started. And after that ordeal for the battery then the alternator only half ass charges ? Ill conceived idea to say the least. Another thing is that since the late 1980s, cars have had kinda shitty alternators. My friend's brother in law had a car that needed a new one every two years or so, and where they put it you had to damnear pull the engine. And this was a GM product, I think the 3.4L "rat" engine. Fuck all that, gimme a 1967 Chevy.
Reply by ●December 7, 20162016-12-07
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in message news:q9ig4c94hu35rqh4dgbq0e3vq7p6cv10rs@4ax.com...> On Wed, 07 Dec 2016 11:21:51 -0600, Peabody > <waybackNO584SPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>This may not be the appropriate place to post about this. If so, just >>ignore >>it, and my apologies. >> >>Honda has a dual-mode charging system for US models. When the headlights >>are >>on, or any other combination of things that increases the amp draw through >>the system to a certain point, the computer tells the alernator to put out >>14.4V, or thereabouts. But at all other times the alternator puts out >>about >>12.3V. This is done to increase gas mileage. >> >>At my last oil change (2012 Civic), the dealer checked out everything, >>including the battery. They said the battery was ok, but was only 57% >>charged. It seems to me that this is a direct result of the charging >>algorithm. Even if the battery was fully charged, which would be a >>resting >>voltage of just under 12.7V, if the alternator is told to output only >>12.3V, >>then the battery will be providing all the needed current until it is >>discharged down to that level, which should happen fairly quickly. >> >>My understanding is that lead-acid batteries don't do well being partially >>charged all the time, not to mention not having as many cranking amps >>available as you might need. In fact, I replaced the original battery at >>just under three years. Yet Honda has been doing this dual-mode thing >>literally for decades. So perhaps I'm wrong about the effect of this >>system >>on battery life. >> >>The odd thing is - if you want the car to charge the battery, you DO NOT >>want >>to shut off the lights, the fan, the radio, etc., because that will just >>lower the alternator voltage to 12.3V, which won't charge the battery at >>all. >>Instead, you want to turn on the headlights - because that will cause the >>alternator to put out 14.4V, which WILL charge the battery. Can you spell >>counterintuitive? >> >>So one option is just to get a charger, and charge the battery overnight >>maybe once a week. But another alternative is to modify the >>current-sensing >>circuit so the computer thinks the lights are on even when they aren't, so >>the alternator will stay at 14.4V all time - just like every other car in >>the >>world does. But before going down that road, I need to be sure I >>understand >>what, if anything, this Honda system is doing to the battery because the >>modification, which is called the ELD bypass, is a real bear for my model >>car. >> >>And in case you were wondering, it appears that this Honda system doesn't >>take into account at all the current charge state of the battery. >> >>Well, I would appreciate some expert opinion on the effects of having the >>battery be partially charged all the time. I've read several places >>online >>that this promotes sulfation. But it's not clear. It's also not clear >>whether a weekly full charge would undo the sulfation. >> >>Thanks for any advice. > > At a constant 14.4V setpoint you risk overcharging the battery, > particularly in warmer climates/seasons. > > The correct TC can be seen at... > > <http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/AlternatorRegulatorTC.pdf> > > You may be able to buy an off-the-shelf unit to replace the Honda > original... depends on how the Honda is wired. > > ...Jim Thompson > --Don't the headlights stay on all the time (when in the auto mode) on most modern cars and trucks? That should be enough load to keep the charge voltage normal.
Reply by ●December 7, 20162016-12-07
On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 16:29:00 -0500, "tom" <tmiller11147@verizon.net> wrote:> >"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in >message news:q9ig4c94hu35rqh4dgbq0e3vq7p6cv10rs@4ax.com... >> On Wed, 07 Dec 2016 11:21:51 -0600, Peabody >> <waybackNO584SPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>>This may not be the appropriate place to post about this. If so, just >>>ignore >>>it, and my apologies. >>> >>>Honda has a dual-mode charging system for US models. When the headlights >>>are >>>on, or any other combination of things that increases the amp draw through >>>the system to a certain point, the computer tells the alernator to put out >>>14.4V, or thereabouts. But at all other times the alternator puts out >>>about >>>12.3V. This is done to increase gas mileage. >>> >>>At my last oil change (2012 Civic), the dealer checked out everything, >>>including the battery. They said the battery was ok, but was only 57% >>>charged. It seems to me that this is a direct result of the charging >>>algorithm. Even if the battery was fully charged, which would be a >>>resting >>>voltage of just under 12.7V, if the alternator is told to output only >>>12.3V, >>>then the battery will be providing all the needed current until it is >>>discharged down to that level, which should happen fairly quickly. >>> >>>My understanding is that lead-acid batteries don't do well being partially >>>charged all the time, not to mention not having as many cranking amps >>>available as you might need. In fact, I replaced the original battery at >>>just under three years. Yet Honda has been doing this dual-mode thing >>>literally for decades. So perhaps I'm wrong about the effect of this >>>system >>>on battery life. >>> >>>The odd thing is - if you want the car to charge the battery, you DO NOT >>>want >>>to shut off the lights, the fan, the radio, etc., because that will just >>>lower the alternator voltage to 12.3V, which won't charge the battery at >>>all. >>>Instead, you want to turn on the headlights - because that will cause the >>>alternator to put out 14.4V, which WILL charge the battery. Can you spell >>>counterintuitive? >>> >>>So one option is just to get a charger, and charge the battery overnight >>>maybe once a week. But another alternative is to modify the >>>current-sensing >>>circuit so the computer thinks the lights are on even when they aren't, so >>>the alternator will stay at 14.4V all time - just like every other car in >>>the >>>world does. But before going down that road, I need to be sure I >>>understand >>>what, if anything, this Honda system is doing to the battery because the >>>modification, which is called the ELD bypass, is a real bear for my model >>>car. >>> >>>And in case you were wondering, it appears that this Honda system doesn't >>>take into account at all the current charge state of the battery. >>> >>>Well, I would appreciate some expert opinion on the effects of having the >>>battery be partially charged all the time. I've read several places >>>online >>>that this promotes sulfation. But it's not clear. It's also not clear >>>whether a weekly full charge would undo the sulfation. >>> >>>Thanks for any advice. >> >> At a constant 14.4V setpoint you risk overcharging the battery, >> particularly in warmer climates/seasons. >> >> The correct TC can be seen at... >> >> <http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/AlternatorRegulatorTC.pdf> >> >> You may be able to buy an off-the-shelf unit to replace the Honda >> original... depends on how the Honda is wired. >> >> ...Jim Thompson >> -- > >Don't the headlights stay on all the time (when in the auto mode) on most >modern cars and trucks? That should be enough load to keep the charge >voltage normal. > > > >I wouldn't know... my car is 11 years old and my pick-em-up truck is 16 ;-) Neither has "daylight headlamps" though the car does sense dark and turns them on. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Reply by ●December 7, 20162016-12-07
tom says... > Don't the headlights stay on all the time (when in the > auto mode) on most modern cars and trucks? That should > be enough load to keep the charge voltage normal. No. The daytime running lights, at least on my car, use a lot less current than full headlights, and the voltage stays at 12.3V. The running lights appear to use the high beam filaments, but at much lower than normal current. I just received my cigarette lighter voltmeter, and on a run downtown and back it never came off low voltage unless I turned on the headlights, even over 60mph and with the heater fan on. I assume the rear window defroster might switch it to 14.4V, and perhaps the A/C. But otherwise, if you're driving around during the day in wintertime with just the running lights on, it's going to be 12.3V all the time. And that means the battery isn't fully charged. Ever.
Reply by ●December 7, 20162016-12-07
jurb6006@gmail.com says... > Disagree. the most reliable cars I have seen generally > charge at like 15.2 when cold, tapering off with > temperature of course. It will be next summer before I can test this, but there's a "thing" attached to the negative battery terminal in addition to the ground cable. Could this be a temperature sensor for the battery? Is the negative terminal the right place to take this reading? So far, though, if it's high voltage, it's exactly 14.4V. No variation. > I think Honda made a mistake doing that. Once out of > factory warranty I would find the wire that controls > this and make it put out the full voltage all the time. Honda uses an Electronic Load Detector (ELD) that's located in the engine compartment fuse box. It's a strange looking thing that has a slot all the way through it, and there's a metal bar that goes through that slot. The entire current load of the system goes though that bar, and the ELD must have a coil surrounding the slot. The current induces a corresponding current in the coil, and then some mystery circuit in the ELD pulls down the 5VDC provided by the computer via a pullup resistor so that the voltage indicates the current load. The switching point appears to be about 2.1V. Below that, you get 14.4V from the alternator. So the solution to this could be to just add a pulldown resistor to that sending line so that it always reads below 2.1V, or perhaps a 2V zener to ground, or even three forward biased diodes to ground would work. You can't just ground it because then the computer will throw a code and turn on the check-engine light. The problem is figuring out which wire it is, and getting to it. > Fuck all that, gimme a 1967 Chevy. Nah. Modern cars are really nice.
Reply by ●December 7, 20162016-12-07
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in message news:ftvg4c1k1ju33c7g7m6k1qhi3ge9nprike@4ax.com...> On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 16:29:00 -0500, "tom" <tmiller11147@verizon.net> > wrote: > >> >>"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote >>in >>message news:q9ig4c94hu35rqh4dgbq0e3vq7p6cv10rs@4ax.com... >>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2016 11:21:51 -0600, Peabody >>> <waybackNO584SPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>>This may not be the appropriate place to post about this. If so, just >>>>ignore >>>>it, and my apologies. >>>> >>>>Honda has a dual-mode charging system for US models. When the >>>>headlights >>>>are >>>>on, or any other combination of things that increases the amp draw >>>>through >>>>the system to a certain point, the computer tells the alernator to put >>>>out >>>>14.4V, or thereabouts. But at all other times the alternator puts out >>>>about >>>>12.3V. This is done to increase gas mileage. >>>> >>>>At my last oil change (2012 Civic), the dealer checked out everything, >>>>including the battery. They said the battery was ok, but was only 57% >>>>charged. It seems to me that this is a direct result of the charging >>>>algorithm. Even if the battery was fully charged, which would be a >>>>resting >>>>voltage of just under 12.7V, if the alternator is told to output only >>>>12.3V, >>>>then the battery will be providing all the needed current until it is >>>>discharged down to that level, which should happen fairly quickly. >>>> >>>>My understanding is that lead-acid batteries don't do well being >>>>partially >>>>charged all the time, not to mention not having as many cranking amps >>>>available as you might need. In fact, I replaced the original battery >>>>at >>>>just under three years. Yet Honda has been doing this dual-mode thing >>>>literally for decades. So perhaps I'm wrong about the effect of this >>>>system >>>>on battery life. >>>> >>>>The odd thing is - if you want the car to charge the battery, you DO NOT >>>>want >>>>to shut off the lights, the fan, the radio, etc., because that will just >>>>lower the alternator voltage to 12.3V, which won't charge the battery at >>>>all. >>>>Instead, you want to turn on the headlights - because that will cause >>>>the >>>>alternator to put out 14.4V, which WILL charge the battery. Can you >>>>spell >>>>counterintuitive? >>>> >>>>So one option is just to get a charger, and charge the battery overnight >>>>maybe once a week. But another alternative is to modify the >>>>current-sensing >>>>circuit so the computer thinks the lights are on even when they aren't, >>>>so >>>>the alternator will stay at 14.4V all time - just like every other car >>>>in >>>>the >>>>world does. But before going down that road, I need to be sure I >>>>understand >>>>what, if anything, this Honda system is doing to the battery because the >>>>modification, which is called the ELD bypass, is a real bear for my >>>>model >>>>car. >>>> >>>>And in case you were wondering, it appears that this Honda system >>>>doesn't >>>>take into account at all the current charge state of the battery. >>>> >>>>Well, I would appreciate some expert opinion on the effects of having >>>>the >>>>battery be partially charged all the time. I've read several places >>>>online >>>>that this promotes sulfation. But it's not clear. It's also not clear >>>>whether a weekly full charge would undo the sulfation. >>>> >>>>Thanks for any advice. >>> >>> At a constant 14.4V setpoint you risk overcharging the battery, >>> particularly in warmer climates/seasons. >>> >>> The correct TC can be seen at... >>> >>> <http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/AlternatorRegulatorTC.pdf> >>> >>> You may be able to buy an off-the-shelf unit to replace the Honda >>> original... depends on how the Honda is wired. >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >>> -- >> >>Don't the headlights stay on all the time (when in the auto mode) on most >>modern cars and trucks? That should be enough load to keep the charge >>voltage normal. >> >> >> >> > > I wouldn't know... my car is 11 years old and my pick-em-up truck is > 16 ;-) Neither has "daylight headlamps" though the car does sense > dark and turns them on. > > ...Jim Thompson > --Yeah, my car is 16 YO and PU is 12 and the voltage is always around 14 volts. The batteries last about six years. I must always remember to unplug the GPS as the cig lighter outlets are always on. Seems like a bad idea to let the battery go down to 12.3 volts while running.
Reply by ●December 7, 20162016-12-07
"Peabody" <waybackNO584SPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:20161207-231401.906.0@Peabody.ssl.astraweb.com...> tom says... > > > Don't the headlights stay on all the time (when in the > > auto mode) on most modern cars and trucks? That should > > be enough load to keep the charge voltage normal. > > No. The daytime running lights, at least on my car, use a > lot less current than full headlights, and the voltage stays > at 12.3V. The running lights appear to use the high beam > filaments, but at much lower than normal current. > > I just received my cigarette lighter voltmeter, and on a run > downtown and back it never came off low voltage unless I > turned on the headlights, even over 60mph and with the > heater fan on. I assume the rear window defroster might > switch it to 14.4V, and perhaps the A/C. But otherwise, if > you're driving around during the day in wintertime with just > the running lights on, it's going to be 12.3V all the time. > And that means the battery isn't fully charged. Ever. > >Unless you run with the headlights on all the time. Sounds like a designed by monkeys episode.
Reply by ●December 7, 20162016-12-07
On 12/07/2016 04:29 PM, tom wrote:> "Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in > message news:q9ig4c94hu35rqh4dgbq0e3vq7p6cv10rs@4ax.com... >> On Wed, 07 Dec 2016 11:21:51 -0600, Peabody >> <waybackNO584SPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> This may not be the appropriate place to post about this. If so, just >>> ignore >>> it, and my apologies. >>> >>> Honda has a dual-mode charging system for US models. When the headlights >>> are >>> on, or any other combination of things that increases the amp draw through >>> the system to a certain point, the computer tells the alernator to put out >>> 14.4V, or thereabouts. But at all other times the alternator puts out >>> about >>> 12.3V. This is done to increase gas mileage. >>> >>> At my last oil change (2012 Civic), the dealer checked out everything, >>> including the battery. They said the battery was ok, but was only 57% >>> charged. It seems to me that this is a direct result of the charging >>> algorithm. Even if the battery was fully charged, which would be a >>> resting >>> voltage of just under 12.7V, if the alternator is told to output only >>> 12.3V, >>> then the battery will be providing all the needed current until it is >>> discharged down to that level, which should happen fairly quickly. >>> >>> My understanding is that lead-acid batteries don't do well being partially >>> charged all the time, not to mention not having as many cranking amps >>> available as you might need. In fact, I replaced the original battery at >>> just under three years. Yet Honda has been doing this dual-mode thing >>> literally for decades. So perhaps I'm wrong about the effect of this >>> system >>> on battery life. >>> >>> The odd thing is - if you want the car to charge the battery, you DO NOT >>> want >>> to shut off the lights, the fan, the radio, etc., because that will just >>> lower the alternator voltage to 12.3V, which won't charge the battery at >>> all. >>> Instead, you want to turn on the headlights - because that will cause the >>> alternator to put out 14.4V, which WILL charge the battery. Can you spell >>> counterintuitive? >>> >>> So one option is just to get a charger, and charge the battery overnight >>> maybe once a week. But another alternative is to modify the >>> current-sensing >>> circuit so the computer thinks the lights are on even when they aren't, so >>> the alternator will stay at 14.4V all time - just like every other car in >>> the >>> world does. But before going down that road, I need to be sure I >>> understand >>> what, if anything, this Honda system is doing to the battery because the >>> modification, which is called the ELD bypass, is a real bear for my model >>> car. >>> >>> And in case you were wondering, it appears that this Honda system doesn't >>> take into account at all the current charge state of the battery. >>> >>> Well, I would appreciate some expert opinion on the effects of having the >>> battery be partially charged all the time. I've read several places >>> online >>> that this promotes sulfation. But it's not clear. It's also not clear >>> whether a weekly full charge would undo the sulfation. >>> >>> Thanks for any advice. >> >> At a constant 14.4V setpoint you risk overcharging the battery, >> particularly in warmer climates/seasons. >> >> The correct TC can be seen at... >> >> <http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/AlternatorRegulatorTC.pdf> >> >> You may be able to buy an off-the-shelf unit to replace the Honda >> original... depends on how the Honda is wired. >> >> ...Jim Thompson >> -- > > Don't the headlights stay on all the time (when in the auto mode) on most > modern cars and trucks? That should be enough load to keep the charge > voltage normal.Most modern cars seem to have a white LED "light bar" either surrounding the headlights or in the fender somewhere for the daytime running lamps. That probably doesn't draw too much current. Then the headlamps switch on after dark, and they're usually LED, halogen, or some kind of xenon HID. My less-than-1-year-old Volt has LEDs for the low beams and warmish orange-yellow halogens for the high beams. I often get people flashing me thinking my low beams are actually my high beams. The LEDs in combination with the halogens are like rays from the Almighty himself.
