On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 12:49:07 AM UTC-4, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:> > What I do have is 50 NE2 bulbs with resitors. Could I use those? > > It would probably take 5 or 6 in series to do it, which compared to two > 5 cent zeners from eBay seems like a waste of money and circuit board real > estate, but I am looking to do something that does not require me to > order anything from anyone. > > TIA > > Geoff > > -- > Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379Many many years ago when I was in the Navy, the ship I was on had a radar repeater that used a NE-2 neon bulb as a voltage regulator. The neon bulb failed fairly often, maybe about every three months. Often enough that I could remember that it had failed before. So I bought a NE-2 from Radio Shack and used it instead of one from the Navy supply system. And it did not fail again while I was on that ship. Just pointing out that old stock may not be reliable. I would try to come up with a circuit that used one neon bulb across part of a voltage divider to do the regulating. I think trying to use 5 or 6 in series would lead to very erratic behaviour. Dan
Using NE2 bulbs as voltage regulators
Started by ●August 9, 2015
Reply by ●August 9, 20152015-08-09
Reply by ●August 9, 20152015-08-09
On 8/9/2015 7:36 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote:> Why bother shielding the NE-2s? A bit of radiation or UVA will improve the turn-on performance, and is pretty unlikely to be noticed in operation. > > Cheers > > Phil Hobbs >Indeed, I think some glow tubes were manufactured back in the day with a small amount of radioactive material to encourage ionization in dark environments.
Reply by ●August 9, 20152015-08-09
On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 04:49:03 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:>I am building an experimental radiation detector. Being an experiment, I >want to avoid buying anything for it. Sort of a junkbox project to see >what could be done using the parts I have. > >The geiger muler tubes I have require 400 volts. I could do it easily buy >buying 200 volt zener diodes and put two in series. Or I could buy a 400 >volt gas discharge tube from a Soviet geiger counter cheaply. > >But I have neither. > >What I do have is 50 NE2 bulbs with resitors. Could I use those? > >It would probably take 5 or 6 in series to do it, which compared to two >5 cent zeners from eBay seems like a waste of money and circuit board real >estate, but I am looking to do something that does not require me to >order anything from anyone. > >TIA > >GeoffSince you indicate they are "with resistors" (I presume built-in) they won't act as regulators... the resistor drop will ruin the regulation. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by ●August 9, 20152015-08-09
On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 09:13:17 -0400, bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:>On 8/9/2015 7:36 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote: >> Why bother shielding the NE-2s? A bit of radiation or UVA will improve the turn-on performance, and is pretty unlikely to be noticed in operation. >> Cheers >> Phil Hobbs>Indeed, I think some glow tubes were manufactured back in the day with a >small amount of radioactive material to encourage ionization in dark >environments.I found a GE Glow Lamp Manual 2nd edition 1966 on my bookshelf. I was waiting for neon lamps to make a comeback. Chapter 4 includes using glow lamps for voltage regulation: <http://www.introni.it/pdf/GE%20Glow%20Lamp%20Manual.pdf> <http://vacuumtubes.biz/documents/Glow%20Lamp%20Specifications.pdf> If you search through the catalog pages at the end for "radioactive", you will find which lamps had something radioactive added to reduce dark effect. I couldn't find any documents listing what radioactive materials were added to neon lamps. If it was something like Krypton-86 (10.8 years) or Tritium-3 (12.3 years), the radioactivity is probably gone by now. Beware of old stock. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Reply by ●August 9, 20152015-08-09
In article <7357a189-7423-4048-ae98-b4910bc8e014@googlegroups.com>, pcdhobbs@gmail.com says...> > Why bother shielding the NE-2s? A bit of radiation or UVA will improve the turn-on performance, and is pretty unlikely to be noticed in operation. > > Cheers > > Phil HobbsThey make excellent lightning detectors :)
Reply by ●August 9, 20152015-08-09
On 09/08/2015 17:45, Jeff Liebermann wrote:> dark effect. I couldn't find any documents listing what radioactive > materials were added to neon lamps. If it was something like > Krypton-86 (10.8 years) or Tritium-3 (12.3 years), the radioactivity > is probably gone by now. Beware of old stock. > >Don't know about those gases but at least one model used an isotope of nickel, it was loaded into a paint a dab of which was inside the glass envelope. piglet
Reply by ●August 9, 20152015-08-09
On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:45:21 -0700, the renowned Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:>On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 09:13:17 -0400, bitrex ><bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote: > >>On 8/9/2015 7:36 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>> Why bother shielding the NE-2s? A bit of radiation or UVA will improve the turn-on performance, and is pretty unlikely to be noticed in operation. >>> Cheers >>> Phil Hobbs > >>Indeed, I think some glow tubes were manufactured back in the day with a >>small amount of radioactive material to encourage ionization in dark >>environments. > >I found a GE Glow Lamp Manual 2nd edition 1966 on my bookshelf. I was >waiting for neon lamps to make a comeback. Chapter 4 includes using >glow lamps for voltage regulation: ><http://www.introni.it/pdf/GE%20Glow%20Lamp%20Manual.pdf> ><http://vacuumtubes.biz/documents/Glow%20Lamp%20Specifications.pdf> >If you search through the catalog pages at the end for "radioactive", >you will find which lamps had something radioactive added to reduce >dark effect. I couldn't find any documents listing what radioactive >materials were added to neon lamps. If it was something like >Krypton-86 (10.8 years) or Tritium-3 (12.3 years), the radioactivity >is probably gone by now. Beware of old stock.The GE document specifically says that the "mild radioactive" additive is added to the neon gas. Neon John said (back in 2011) with reference to fl. starters and enon lamps. "A long time ago a touch of Thorium oxide was added, the purpose being for the radioactivity to establish a uniform ionization environment and thus stabilize the strike voltage. As the Cold War progressed and the nation had Kr-85 running out its ears, that isotope was substituted for the Thorium. Easier to inject a little gas than to mix the thorium oxide in with the electrode material. The same protocol goes for neon lamps. The only minor problem is that Kr-85 has a 10.7 year half life and so if the equipment at hand is very old, the starter or neon lamp may not be reliable." --sp -- Best regards, Spehro Pefhany Amazon link for AoE 3rd Edition: http://tinyurl.com/ntrpwu8 Microchip link for 2015 Masters in Phoenix: http://tinyurl.com/l7g2k48
Reply by ●August 9, 20152015-08-09
On 8/9/2015 11:58 AM, M Philbrook wrote:> In article <7357a189-7423-4048-ae98-b4910bc8e014@googlegroups.com>, > pcdhobbs@gmail.com says... >> >> Why bother shielding the NE-2s? A bit of radiation or UVA will >> improve the turn-on performance, and is pretty unlikely to be >> noticed in operation. >> >> Cheers >> >> Phil Hobbs > > They make excellent lightning detectors :) >If struck directly? Sure. So does a tree or, hopefully, you.
Reply by ●August 9, 20152015-08-09
On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 13:17:15 -0400, Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:>On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:45:21 -0700, the renowned Jeff Liebermann ><jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote: > >>On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 09:13:17 -0400, bitrex >><bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote: >> >>>On 8/9/2015 7:36 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>> Why bother shielding the NE-2s? A bit of radiation or UVA will improve the turn-on performance, and is pretty unlikely to be noticed in operation. >>>> Cheers >>>> Phil Hobbs >> >>>Indeed, I think some glow tubes were manufactured back in the day with a >>>small amount of radioactive material to encourage ionization in dark >>>environments. >> >>I found a GE Glow Lamp Manual 2nd edition 1966 on my bookshelf. I was >>waiting for neon lamps to make a comeback. Chapter 4 includes using >>glow lamps for voltage regulation: >><http://www.introni.it/pdf/GE%20Glow%20Lamp%20Manual.pdf> >><http://vacuumtubes.biz/documents/Glow%20Lamp%20Specifications.pdf> >>If you search through the catalog pages at the end for "radioactive", >>you will find which lamps had something radioactive added to reduce >>dark effect. I couldn't find any documents listing what radioactive >>materials were added to neon lamps. If it was something like >>Krypton-86 (10.8 years) or Tritium-3 (12.3 years), the radioactivity >>is probably gone by now. Beware of old stock.>The GE document specifically says that the "mild radioactive" additive >is added to the neon gas. > >Neon John said (back in 2011) with reference to fl. starters and enon >lamps. > >"A long time ago a touch of Thorium oxide was added, the purpose being >for the radioactivity to establish a uniform ionization environment >and thus stabilize the strike voltage. As the Cold War progressed and >the nation had Kr-85 running out its ears, that isotope was >substituted for the Thorium. Easier to inject a little gas than to >mix the thorium oxide in with the electrode material. > >The same protocol goes for neon lamps. The only minor problem is that >Kr-85 has a 10.7 year half life and so if the equipment at hand is >very old, the starter or neon lamp may not be reliable." > >--spThanks. I recall the discussion but was too lazy to search for it. Neon lamps probably use the same radioactive isotopes as a fluorescent starter. Some possibles are listed in: <http://www.irpa.net/irpa10/cdrom/00740.pdf> Half-Life Emits Kypton-85 10.8 years Beta Promethium-147 2.6 Beta Tritium H3 12.3 Beta Thorium-232 14 billion years Alpha I can see why they used Thorium. Promethium seems too short. Krypton and Tritium are longer but I would still be worried about the usability of "old stock" neon lamps. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Reply by ●August 9, 20152015-08-09
On Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:45:21 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:>On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 09:13:17 -0400, bitrex ><bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote: > >>On 8/9/2015 7:36 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>> Why bother shielding the NE-2s? A bit of radiation or UVA will improve the turn-on performance, and is pretty unlikely to be noticed in operation. >>> Cheers >>> Phil Hobbs > >>Indeed, I think some glow tubes were manufactured back in the day with a >>small amount of radioactive material to encourage ionization in dark >>environments. > >I found a GE Glow Lamp Manual 2nd edition 1966 on my bookshelf. I was >waiting for neon lamps to make a comeback. Chapter 4 includes using >glow lamps for voltage regulation: ><http://www.introni.it/pdf/GE%20Glow%20Lamp%20Manual.pdf> ><http://vacuumtubes.biz/documents/Glow%20Lamp%20Specifications.pdf> >If you search through the catalog pages at the end for "radioactive", >you will find which lamps had something radioactive added to reduce >dark effect. I couldn't find any documents listing what radioactive >materials were added to neon lamps. If it was something like >Krypton-86 (10.8 years) or Tritium-3 (12.3 years), the radioactivity >is probably gone by now. Beware of old stock.Back around 1961, while a student at MIT, I had a bad experience... I had a tube amplifier which used 0A2's as regulators. I located the amplifier on a shelf in the attic (I had a remote preamplifier... Germanium transistors, no less :-) and it was left on all the time, no problems. Summer of '61, decided to vacation back home in WV, so I shut off amplifier power. On my return, a month later, I flipped the power switch... KABOOM! A number of electrolytic cans blew out their bottom seals... over-voltage :-( ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
