On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 18:06:01 -0800, the renowned John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:>On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 17:35:19 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> >wrote: > >>miso wrote: >>> On 12/10/2013 4:10 PM, dbr@kbrx.com wrote: >>>> In this application, the problem with jfets is the need for a negative >>>> control voltage. The board is small with little room for more circuitry. >>>> Good thought otherwise. >>>> >>>> Hul >>> >>> Would a photofet based optocoupler do the trick. Not cheap, but simple >>> otherwise. Fairchild makes a few. >>> >> >>Unfortunately not for a 30V swing. One option Hul would have is LDRs but >>his name sounds Scandinavian and Europe has outlawed those for most >>applications. > >Cadmium? > >What do they do about GaAs? PbSe? PLZT?I see devices with LCDs being advertised as "mercury-free backlight" and "arsenic-free glass". Of course the backlights may not be completely benign:- ".. according to California regulations, excessive levels of copper (up to 3892 mg/kg; limit: 2500), Pb (up to 8103 mg/kg; limit: 1000), nickel (up to 4797 mg/kg; limit: 2000), or silver (up to 721 mg/kg; limit: 500) render all except low-intensity yellow LEDs hazardous". http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es101052q Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
fet for automatic gain control?
Started by ●December 10, 2013
Reply by ●December 10, 20132013-12-10
Reply by ●December 10, 20132013-12-10
On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 21:13:34 -0500, Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:>On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 18:06:01 -0800, the renowned John Larkin ><jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 17:35:19 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> >>wrote: >> >>>miso wrote: >>>> On 12/10/2013 4:10 PM, dbr@kbrx.com wrote: >>>>> In this application, the problem with jfets is the need for a negative >>>>> control voltage. The board is small with little room for more circuitry. >>>>> Good thought otherwise. >>>>> >>>>> Hul >>>> >>>> Would a photofet based optocoupler do the trick. Not cheap, but simple >>>> otherwise. Fairchild makes a few. >>>> >>> >>>Unfortunately not for a 30V swing. One option Hul would have is LDRs but >>>his name sounds Scandinavian and Europe has outlawed those for most >>>applications. >> >>Cadmium? >> >>What do they do about GaAs? PbSe? PLZT? > >I see devices with LCDs being advertised as "mercury-free backlight" >and "arsenic-free glass". > >Of course the backlights may not be completely benign:- > >".. according to California regulations, excessive levels of copper >(up to 3892 mg/kg; limit: 2500), Pb (up to 8103 mg/kg; limit: 1000), >nickel (up to 4797 mg/kg; limit: 2000), or silver (up to 721 mg/kg; >limit: 500) render all except low-intensity yellow LEDs hazardous". > >http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es101052q > > >Best regards, >Spehro PefhanyCopper is hazardous? Maybe we can go back to using oxen for our prime energy source. Silver? No more jewelry? How come car batteries get a pass? They are huge masses of lead *compounds*, much worse than metallic lead. Rum is, by California law, a toxic substance. It contains *alcohol* -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com http://www.highlandtechnology.com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom laser drivers and controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
Reply by ●December 11, 20132013-12-11
dbr@kbrx.com wrote:> In this application, the problem with jfets is the need for a negative > control voltage. The board is small with little room for more circuitry. > Good thought otherwise. > > Hul > > asdf<asdf@nospam.com> wrote: >> Hul Tytus wrote: > >>> Any suggestions for an enhancement mode mosfet to serve as a variable >>> resistence element in an automatic gain control type circuit? Power >>> involved is a bare whisper; worst case voltage is probably 30 volts. >>> There may well be a better remidy than an mosfet, but it looks good at >>> this point. > >> Many audio compressor circuits use jfets as voltage dependent >> resistors. a search for "compressor fet schematic" in google images >> outputs some references. >Variants: PMOS, NMOS, DMOS, JFET.
Reply by ●December 11, 20132013-12-11
On Wednesday, 11 December 2013 12:21:29 UTC+11, Jim Thompson wrote:> On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 19:24:34 -0500, Spehro Pefhany=20 > <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:=20 > >On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 22:49:39 +0000 (UTC), the renowned Hul Tytus=20 > ><ht@panix.com> wrote: >=20 > >>sci.electronics.design >=20 > >>fet for automatic gain control?=20 > >>=20 > >>Any suggestions for an enhancement mode mosfet to serve as a variable r=esistence element in an automatic gain control type circuit? Power involved= is a bare whisper; worst case voltage is probably 30 volts. There may well= be a better remidy than an mosfet, but it looks good at this point.=20> >=20 > >A MOSFET stops behaving like a resistor once the voltage across it >=20 > >exceeds Vgs - Vth. For low distortion, maybe you want to keep it to tens=of mV or something like that, not 30V. =20> >=20 > And there's some gimmick where you add 0.5*VDS voltage to VGS to lineariz=e. More a circuit design technique than a gimmick. http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/datasheets/transistors/vishay_fe= t_cvr_an.pdf and it was around before 1997. --=20 Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●December 11, 20132013-12-11
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in message news:teffa9pe7eeotuo7mfbvee5tusndphn4qt@4ax.com...>>A MOSFET stops behaving like a resistor once the voltage across it >>exceeds Vgs - Vth. For low distortion, maybe you want to keep it to >>tens of mV or something like that, not 30V. > > And there's some gimmick where you add 0.5*VDS voltage to VGS to > linearize.Too bad it still only works to fractions of a volt, at least if you want a wide range in R(on)/R(off). Use a single balanced mixer instead (three BJTs). Tim -- Seven Transistor Labs Electrical Engineering Consultation Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com
Reply by ●December 11, 20132013-12-11
On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 02:36:17 -0600, "Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> wrote:>"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote >in message news:teffa9pe7eeotuo7mfbvee5tusndphn4qt@4ax.com... >>>A MOSFET stops behaving like a resistor once the voltage across it >>>exceeds Vgs - Vth. For low distortion, maybe you want to keep it to >>>tens of mV or something like that, not 30V. >> >> And there's some gimmick where you add 0.5*VDS voltage to VGS to >> linearize. > >Too bad it still only works to fractions of a volt, at least if you want a >wide range in R(on)/R(off). > >Use a single balanced mixer instead (three BJTs). > >TimAt 30V? ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by ●December 11, 20132013-12-11
On 12/10/2013 8:21 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:> On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 19:24:34 -0500, Spehro Pefhany > <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote: > >> On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 22:49:39 +0000 (UTC), the renowned Hul Tytus >> <ht@panix.com> wrote: >> >>> sci.electronics.design >>> fet for automatic gain control? >>> >>> Any suggestions for an enhancement mode mosfet to serve as a variable resistence element in an automatic gain control type circuit? Power involved is a bare whisper; worst case voltage is probably 30 volts. There may well be a better remidy than an mosfet, but it looks good at this point. >>> >>> Hul >> >> A MOSFET stops behaving like a resistor once the voltage across it >> exceeds Vgs - Vth. For low distortion, maybe you want to keep it to >> tens of mV or something like that, not 30V. >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> Spehro Pefhany > > And there's some gimmick where you add 0.5*VDS voltage to VGS to > linearize. > > ...Jim Thompson >That seems to be a lot closer with JFETs than with MOSFETs. I did some measurements a few years back that showed that 2N7002s kept improving as I cranked the V_GS feedback up from 0.5*V_DS to 1.5*V_DS. See http://electrooptical.net/www/sed/sed.html#2N7000 . (Doesn't have the 150% feedback measurements unfortunately--I'll see if I can find them.) Cheers Phil Hobbs
Reply by ●December 11, 20132013-12-11
On 12/10/2013 5:49 PM, Hul Tytus wrote:> sci.electronics.design > fet for automatic gain control? > > Any suggestions for an enhancement mode mosfet to serve as a variable resistence element in an automatic gain control type circuit? Power involved is a bare whisper; worst case voltage is probably 30 volts. There may well be a better remidy than an mosfet, but it looks good at this point. > > Hul >Can you use range switching? Failing that, current-mode is your friend. A BJT diff pair can have an enormous range of gain depending on bias, so you can use one pair as a variable current divider to get the maximum input signal down to something manageable, then maybe another pair to get some gain. If you run the two in cascade, you can get probably 40 dB of gain range easily, and 60 dB if you work at it a bit. You can improve the linearity by ~20 dB or a bit more by using matched diode-connected transistors on the second diff pair's inputs. (See the LM13700 data sheet.) Any simple AGC design using elements that respond fast enough to follow your signal (as opposed to light bulbs, thermistors, or CdS photoconductors) is going to cause some distortion. One low-distortion method that may work in a restricted ambient temperature range is a few cascaded voltage dividers whose shunt legs are NTC thermistors, with external heating applied for control. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Reply by ●December 11, 20132013-12-11
John Larkin wrote:> On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 17:35:19 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> miso wrote: >>> On 12/10/2013 4:10 PM, dbr@kbrx.com wrote: >>>> In this application, the problem with jfets is the need for a negative >>>> control voltage. The board is small with little room for more circuitry. >>>> Good thought otherwise. >>>> >>>> Hul >>> Would a photofet based optocoupler do the trick. Not cheap, but simple >>> otherwise. Fairchild makes a few. >>> >> Unfortunately not for a 30V swing. One option Hul would have is LDRs but >> his name sounds Scandinavian and Europe has outlawed those for most >> applications. > > Cadmium? > > What do they do about GaAs? PbSe? PLZT? >Pretty soon they'll even outlaw dihydrogen monoxide because of all the environmental hazards and because it contributes to "global warming": http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html :-) But seriously, if one of your products contains a GaAs FET, you spell that out in writing as "gallium arsenide" and customs in Europe sees that, be prepared for a major imbroglio. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●December 11, 20132013-12-11
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in message news:esvga9poppf2rdkc48si70a1s2pr97u87g@4ax.com...>>Use a single balanced mixer instead (three BJTs). > > At 30V?Sure. It'll need unconventional supply voltages, but why not? If the source can supply a little current (or the bandwidth demand is small), only two transistors would even be needed. Anyway, FETs are utterly useless here. Curiously no references mention it, I dervied that myself. Tim -- Seven Transistor Labs Electrical Engineering Consultation Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com
