On Dec 18, 1:53=A0am, josephkk <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:> On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 17:53:07 -0800 (PST), patricia herold > > > > > > <pmdher...@gmail.com> wrote: > >On Dec 15, 12:16=A0pm, josephkk <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 15:14:48 -0800 (PST), George Herold > > >> <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote: > > >> >> MAX038 is gone, too. Jameco has some 2206 DIPs, which I could scoop > >> >> up, I guess. > > >> >Do you need a lot? =A0We've got several tubes left over from a > >> >discontinued > >> >gizmo*. > > >> Wow. i am surprised that there are any 2206 or 8038 types left anywher=e.> > >> >> Anybody know of a classic analog sinewave generator chip? A uP and =DDS> >> >> would be a lot of hassle. And I'd like to be able to set the > >> >> mark/space frequencies with pots. > > >> >> I guess I could make a triangle oscillator and sort of bend it into=a> >> >> sine wave. THD wouldn't matter much. > > >> >You could use a clocked 4017 with different R's into a opamp summing > >> >junction. =A0(Phil or James suggested it a while back.) =A0With ten s=teps> >> >you move most of the 'distortion' out to the 9th and 11th harmonic. > > >> >George H. > > >> >*Teachscope, sold for a few hundred and put out 12 different 'signals='> >> >that the students would have to 'go find' with a 'scope. =A0I wish > >> >someone would make the current day equivalent out of a uC. > > >> So do you have the specs on that teachscope thing? =A0If it is within =my> >> grasp i might try it. =A0I am not really sure what i may be getting my=self> >> into here, i could easily hit a hole (more likely a rot spot) in my > >> edumacation. > > >> ?-)- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >Hi Joseph, =A0Well there are no real 'specs'. =A0The idea is a cheap > >device that spits out different waveforms. =A0Students (moslty physics > >undergrads, for my market) learn how to use a 'scope by finding all > >the waveforms. > >So different time bases, vertical gains, AC and DC coupling, auto and > >normal triggering. > > > Hmm, As I'm writing this, I wonder if the 'autoset' button on newer > >'scopes makes all this moot? =A0 (I never use the auto set button so > >I've no idea how well it works.) > > >OK, I dug an old board out of stock, today =A0The autoset button on my > >TEK found everything but the very slow (few Hz.) waveforms. =A0 It'd be > >nice if the next version of teachscope had a few settings where there > >were two (or more?) signals at different levels/times. =A0(Now I'm in an > >'arms race' with the autoset button?) > > >I hope I haven't misled you with talk of 1,000 of units. =A0I'd like > >someone to make/sell thousands so I could ask my customers to buy them > >(at the tens to a hundred a year rate) > >We stopped making it because it was too big an expense to get another > >batch of boxes printed. =A0(We were also getting low on cheap brick on a > >rope PS's) > >(Box, PS, switch, connector) =A0As I've said before, the electronics > >inside is almost free. > > >George H. > > Hmmmm. =A0I think i have some beautiful ways to make autoset very > challenging, a few modulated signals with the modulation signal appearing > elsewhere.Well it doesn't need to be too hard, though a few challenging settings would be fine. I bet just adding together two sine waves of different amp and freq will be enough. And some simple signals too. The students are assumed not to know what triggering is. We sold several 'mixed-up versions' so internal signals A,B,C,... would appear on different output switch settings. (students couldn't copy from their neighbor.) I'm sure there was a short manual... not sure where it is, (I was not involved in first teachscope.) And we can produce many more signals easily so long as they do> not have to be really high quality of their type. =A0Maybe 30 to 50 signa=ls?> Indeed, low quality signals may be more challenging.Well, I d> > +/- 12 and 15 V stuff is getting scarce,Grin, But some nice opamps... but that's a different world. maybe we want to change to +/- 5> V analog and 3.3 V logic.Sure I like the idea of hiding a signal up near +/-12V rails, But cost is king for this, and that spells low voltage. As you say packaging and PS are major cost> items, let's see what we can do about that.The original teachscope was powered by a massive* brick on a rope, +/-15 and +5 My boss picked up several hundred for something more than $1 ea.. with shipping and all. *(well brick size anyway) We're already using a +5V Phihong(?) switching supply for ~$5. this one I think, http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PSAC05R-050(P)/993-1047-ND/2384492 Besides packaging there is a 'switch' and display and/or artwork, (an encoder with binary leds taht the students 'decode'?) We do have an encoder, from a different instrument, but it's high end. push buttons and LEDs? Hmm even a toggle switch could work... George H.> > ?-)- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
are all the function generators gone?
Started by ●December 12, 2012
Reply by ●December 18, 20122012-12-18
Reply by ●December 18, 20122012-12-18
On Dec 18, 2:37=A0pm, Jon Kirwan <j...@infinitefactors.org> wrote:> On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 22:53:12 -0800, josephkk > > > > > > <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 17:53:07 -0800 (PST), patricia herold > ><pmdher...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>On Dec 15, 12:16 pm, josephkk <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >>> On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 15:14:48 -0800 (PST), George Herold > > >>> <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote: > > >>> >> MAX038 is gone, too. Jameco has some 2206 DIPs, which I could scoo=p> >>> >> up, I guess. > > >>> >Do you need a lot? We've got several tubes left over from a > >>> >discontinued > >>> >gizmo*. > > >>> Wow. i am surprised that there are any 2206 or 8038 types left anywhe=re.> > >>> >> Anybody know of a classic analog sinewave generator chip? A uP and=DDS> >>> >> would be a lot of hassle. And I'd like to be able to set the > >>> >> mark/space frequencies with pots. > > >>> >> I guess I could make a triangle oscillator and sort of bend it int=o a> >>> >> sine wave. THD wouldn't matter much. > > >>> >You could use a clocked 4017 with different R's into a opamp summing > >>> >junction. (Phil or James suggested it a while back.) With ten steps > >>> >you move most of the 'distortion' out to the 9th and 11th harmonic. > > >>> >George H. > > >>> >*Teachscope, sold for a few hundred and put out 12 different 'signal=s'> >>> >that the students would have to 'go find' with a 'scope. I wish > >>> >someone would make the current day equivalent out of a uC. > > >>> So do you have the specs on that teachscope thing? If it is within my > >>> grasp i might try it. I am not really sure what i may be getting myse=lf> >>> into here, i could easily hit a hole (more likely a rot spot) in my > >>> edumacation. > > >>> ?-)- Hide quoted text - > > >>> - Show quoted text - > > >>Hi Joseph, =A0Well there are no real 'specs'. =A0The idea is a cheap > >>device that spits out different waveforms. =A0Students (moslty physics > >>undergrads, for my market) learn how to use a 'scope by finding all > >>the waveforms. > >>So different time bases, vertical gains, AC and DC coupling, auto and > >>normal triggering. > > >> Hmm, As I'm writing this, I wonder if the 'autoset' button on newer > >>'scopes makes all this moot? =A0 (I never use the auto set button so > >>I've no idea how well it works.) > > >>OK, I dug an old board out of stock, today =A0The autoset button on my > >>TEK found everything but the very slow (few Hz.) waveforms. =A0 It'd be > >>nice if the next version of teachscope had a few settings where there > >>were two (or more?) signals at different levels/times. =A0(Now I'm in a=n> >>'arms race' with the autoset button?) > > >>I hope I haven't misled you with talk of 1,000 of units. =A0I'd like > >>someone to make/sell thousands so I could ask my customers to buy them > >>(at the tens to a hundred a year rate) > >>We stopped making it because it was too big an expense to get another > >>batch of boxes printed. =A0(We were also getting low on cheap brick on =a> >>rope PS's) > >>(Box, PS, switch, connector) =A0As I've said before, the electronics > >>inside is almost free. > > >>George H. > > >Hmmmm. =A0I think i have some beautiful ways to make autoset very > >challenging, a few modulated signals with the modulation signal appearin=g> >elsewhere. =A0And we can produce many more signals easily so long as the=y do> >not have to be really high quality of their type. =A0Maybe 30 to 50 sign=als?> >Indeed, low quality signals may be more challenging. > > >+/- 12 and 15 V stuff is getting scarce, maybe we want to change to +/- =5> >V analog and 3.3 V logic. =A0As you say packaging and PS are major cost > >items, let's see what we can do about that. > > >?-) > > If you do move forward on this, I'd appreciate being kept in > the loop at some level acceptable to you. I'm very interested > if that's okay.Yeah sure... Jon as I've said to you, I don't expect to make much (if any) money from teachscope.. the volume/cost is too low unless someone wants to market it to groups other than physics labs. I saw the 50MHz Rigol scope, for $330?, can't sell teachscope for more than a scope! Maybe it could be a sparkfun thing? George H.> > Thanks, > Jon- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
Reply by ●December 18, 20122012-12-18
On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 17:06:51 -0800 (PST), George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:>On Dec 18, 2:37�pm, Jon Kirwan <j...@infinitefactors.org> wrote: >> On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 22:53:12 -0800, josephkk >> >> <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >On Mon, 17 Dec 2012 17:53:07 -0800 (PST), patricia herold >> ><pmdher...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>On Dec 15, 12:16 pm, josephkk <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 15:14:48 -0800 (PST), George Herold >> >> >>> <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote: >> >> >>> >> MAX038 is gone, too. Jameco has some 2206 DIPs, which I could scoop >> >>> >> up, I guess. >> >> >>> >Do you need a lot? We've got several tubes left over from a >> >>> >discontinued >> >>> >gizmo*. >> >> >>> Wow. i am surprised that there are any 2206 or 8038 types left anywhere. >> >> >>> >> Anybody know of a classic analog sinewave generator chip? A uP and DDS >> >>> >> would be a lot of hassle. And I'd like to be able to set the >> >>> >> mark/space frequencies with pots. >> >> >>> >> I guess I could make a triangle oscillator and sort of bend it into a >> >>> >> sine wave. THD wouldn't matter much. >> >> >>> >You could use a clocked 4017 with different R's into a opamp summing >> >>> >junction. (Phil or James suggested it a while back.) With ten steps >> >>> >you move most of the 'distortion' out to the 9th and 11th harmonic. >> >> >>> >George H. >> >> >>> >*Teachscope, sold for a few hundred and put out 12 different 'signals' >> >>> >that the students would have to 'go find' with a 'scope. I wish >> >>> >someone would make the current day equivalent out of a uC. >> >> >>> So do you have the specs on that teachscope thing? If it is within my >> >>> grasp i might try it. I am not really sure what i may be getting myself >> >>> into here, i could easily hit a hole (more likely a rot spot) in my >> >>> edumacation. >> >> >>> ?-)- Hide quoted text - >> >> >>> - Show quoted text - >> >> >>Hi Joseph, �Well there are no real 'specs'. �The idea is a cheap >> >>device that spits out different waveforms. �Students (moslty physics >> >>undergrads, for my market) learn how to use a 'scope by finding all >> >>the waveforms. >> >>So different time bases, vertical gains, AC and DC coupling, auto and >> >>normal triggering. >> >> >> Hmm, As I'm writing this, I wonder if the 'autoset' button on newer >> >>'scopes makes all this moot? � (I never use the auto set button so >> >>I've no idea how well it works.) >> >> >>OK, I dug an old board out of stock, today �The autoset button on my >> >>TEK found everything but the very slow (few Hz.) waveforms. � It'd be >> >>nice if the next version of teachscope had a few settings where there >> >>were two (or more?) signals at different levels/times. �(Now I'm in an >> >>'arms race' with the autoset button?) >> >> >>I hope I haven't misled you with talk of 1,000 of units. �I'd like >> >>someone to make/sell thousands so I could ask my customers to buy them >> >>(at the tens to a hundred a year rate) >> >>We stopped making it because it was too big an expense to get another >> >>batch of boxes printed. �(We were also getting low on cheap brick on a >> >>rope PS's) >> >>(Box, PS, switch, connector) �As I've said before, the electronics >> >>inside is almost free. >> >> >>George H. >> >> >Hmmmm. �I think i have some beautiful ways to make autoset very >> >challenging, a few modulated signals with the modulation signal appearing >> >elsewhere. �And we can produce many more signals easily so long as they do >> >not have to be really high quality of their type. �Maybe 30 to 50 signals? >> >Indeed, low quality signals may be more challenging. >> >> >+/- 12 and 15 V stuff is getting scarce, maybe we want to change to +/- 5 >> >V analog and 3.3 V logic. �As you say packaging and PS are major cost >> >items, let's see what we can do about that. >> >> >?-) >> >> If you do move forward on this, I'd appreciate being kept in >> the loop at some level acceptable to you. I'm very interested >> if that's okay. > >Yeah sure... Jon as I've said to you, I don't expect to make much (if >any) money from teachscope.. the volume/cost is too low unless someone >wants to market it to groups other than physics labs. >I saw the 50MHz Rigol scope, for $330?, >can't sell teachscope for more than a scope! > >Maybe it could be a sparkfun thing?Actually, it would be just plain enjoyable. I've had a full year of suing the State of Oregon after a disagreement with an audit (Tax Court -- first the Magistrate Division, now the Regular Division -- last recourse after that is the Oregon Supreme Court .... may be fun.) It's been a handful. But I looked very much forward to this and have read through and collected various ideas from the user point of view, plus examined various ideas (including Walsh function approaches) to this project. I consider it just plain fun -- especially if this is done with a focus like J�rg on absolute least cost while providing the most possible with that. I've also a 3D printer that was build earlier this year and is working nicely. I considered a proto from that, as well. Anyway, I'd love to see something done you could either point to or else sell. Money isn't my focus... it's just pure fun to me. I just did my first Disclosures to the State, yesterday, and expect to meet again in February with the Judge to set a court date. But I have time in the middle. I don't care who takes the lead or even if I'm involved. But I would be pleased to get a peak as things move forward, if possible. Even more pleased if I can help share some of the load. It's all good, to me. I just want to see it happen. Jon
Reply by ●December 18, 20122012-12-18
On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 17:06:51 -0800 (PST), George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:> >> >Hmmmm. =A0I think i have some beautiful ways to make autoset very >> >challenging, a few modulated signals with the modulation signal =appearing>> >elsewhere. =A0And we can produce many more signals easily so long as =they do>> >not have to be really high quality of their type. =A0Maybe 30 to 50 =signals?>> >Indeed, low quality signals may be more challenging. >> >> >+/- 12 and 15 V stuff is getting scarce, maybe we want to change to =+/- 5>> >V analog and 3.3 V logic. =A0As you say packaging and PS are major =cost>> >items, let's see what we can do about that. >> >> >?-) >> >> If you do move forward on this, I'd appreciate being kept in >> the loop at some level acceptable to you. I'm very interested >> if that's okay. > >Yeah sure... Jon as I've said to you, I don't expect to make much (if >any) money from teachscope.. the volume/cost is too low unless someone >wants to market it to groups other than physics labs. >I saw the 50MHz Rigol scope, for $330?, >can't sell teachscope for more than a scope!I am not so sure about that, a lot depends on how we position ourselves = in the market. Just the same it would be a tough sell.> >Maybe it could be a sparkfun thing?That is worth serious consideration, it could be sold case less and no = PS, with designs for the case and labeling. Normal PS might be a USB wall wart (~ 3$ US ?) and make the rest onboard, with their test signals as part of the signals to look for.> >George H.
Reply by ●December 18, 20122012-12-18
On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 17:34:39 -0800, Jon Kirwan <jonk@infinitefactors.org> wrote:> >>Yeah sure... Jon as I've said to you, I don't expect to make much (if >>any) money from teachscope.. the volume/cost is too low unless someone >>wants to market it to groups other than physics labs. >>I saw the 50MHz Rigol scope, for $330?, >>can't sell teachscope for more than a scope! >> >>Maybe it could be a sparkfun thing? > >Actually, it would be just plain enjoyable.=20<snip>> But I >looked very much forward to this and have read through and >collected various ideas from the user point of view, plus >examined various ideas (including Walsh function approaches) >to this project. I consider it just plain fun -- especially >if this is done with a focus like J=F6rg on absolute least cost >while providing the most possible with that. > >I've also a 3D printer that was build earlier this year and >is working nicely. I considered a proto from that, as well. > >Anyway, I'd love to see something done you could either point >to or else sell. Money isn't my focus... it's just pure fun >to me.I am cool with all that. =20 George this is your project so far, what say you. ?-)
Reply by ●December 18, 20122012-12-18
On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 18:26:06 -0800, josephkk <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> wrote:>On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 17:06:51 -0800 (PST), George Herold ><gherold@teachspin.com> wrote: > >> >>> >Hmmmm. �I think i have some beautiful ways to make autoset very >>> >challenging, a few modulated signals with the modulation signal appearing >>> >elsewhere. �And we can produce many more signals easily so long as they do >>> >not have to be really high quality of their type. �Maybe 30 to 50 signals? >>> >Indeed, low quality signals may be more challenging. >>> >>> >+/- 12 and 15 V stuff is getting scarce, maybe we want to change to +/- 5 >>> >V analog and 3.3 V logic. �As you say packaging and PS are major cost >>> >items, let's see what we can do about that. >>> >>> >?-) >>> >>> If you do move forward on this, I'd appreciate being kept in >>> the loop at some level acceptable to you. I'm very interested >>> if that's okay. >> >>Yeah sure... Jon as I've said to you, I don't expect to make much (if >>any) money from teachscope.. the volume/cost is too low unless someone >>wants to market it to groups other than physics labs. >>I saw the 50MHz Rigol scope, for $330?, >>can't sell teachscope for more than a scope! > >I am not so sure about that, a lot depends on how we position ourselves in >the market. Just the same it would be a tough sell.I agree that it could sell for the cost of a scope -- depending on what is included. For example, it may provide alternate functions (signal generator?) which later have practical use, as well. And especially with a nice manual.>>Maybe it could be a sparkfun thing? > >That is worth serious consideration, it could be sold case less and no PS, >with designs for the case and labeling. Normal PS might be a USB wall >wart (~ 3$ US ?) and make the rest onboard, with their test signals as >part of the signals to look for.I think making it "ready to go" out of the box will give it wider utility. It would be nice to give it the look and feel of a typical Rigol instrument, in fact. But I'm also for anything fun. Perhaps start by examining existing oscilloscope tutorials (some manuals have been produced for that) and similar manuals for similar tutoring devices like this. See what others have considered and done. Make a list, work through it and organize it with an eye to functional blocks. Then widdle away expensive functional blocks that can't be justified (along with the associated features that require them.) Then see where that leaves things and find the right balance. (Delving enough into certain details may be required to lock down that they can be achieved, of course.) Jon
Reply by ●December 19, 20122012-12-19
On Dec 18, 9:26=A0pm, josephkk <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:> On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 17:06:51 -0800 (PST), George Herold > > > > > > <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote: > > >> >Hmmmm. =A0I think i have some beautiful ways to make autoset very > >> >challenging, a few modulated signals with the modulation signal appea=ring> >> >elsewhere. =A0And we can produce many more signals easily so long as =they do> >> >not have to be really high quality of their type. =A0Maybe 30 to 50 s=ignals?> >> >Indeed, low quality signals may be more challenging. > > >> >+/- 12 and 15 V stuff is getting scarce, maybe we want to change to +=/- 5> >> >V analog and 3.3 V logic. =A0As you say packaging and PS are major co=st> >> >items, let's see what we can do about that. > > >> >?-) > > >> If you do move forward on this, I'd appreciate being kept in > >> the loop at some level acceptable to you. I'm very interested > >> if that's okay. > > >Yeah sure... Jon as I've said to you, I don't expect to make much (if > >any) money from teachscope.. the volume/cost is too low unless someone > >wants to market it to groups other than physics labs. > >I saw the 50MHz Rigol scope, for $330?, > >can't sell teachscope for more than a scope! > > I am not so sure about that, a lot depends on how we position ourselves i=n> the market. =A0Just the same it would be a tough sell.Well the only market that I have access to is college and university physics labs. Marketing is expensive, I think part of the reason that we dropped the product was that we were coming out with a new catalog. I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but it was several $k for the printing of a nice glossy catalog page. (in quantities of 5k to 10k... again I'm vague on the numbers...) Putting teachscope in the new catalog would cost more than the profits at least for several years.> > > > >Maybe it could be a sparkfun thing? > > That is worth serious consideration, it could be sold case less and no PS=,> with designs for the case and labeling. =A0Normal PS might be a USB wall > wart (~ 3$ US ?) and make the rest onboard, with their test signals as > part of the signals to look for.If the pcb could be done all surface mount, with all components on one side. Then you might be able to use the other side as the 'user' interface. pcb silk screeen becomes the artwork, and you just need a five sided (plastic) box as a back side cover. (I'm thinking of Dave Jones and his uA current meter gizmo.... I could find a link if you don't know of what I speak.) George h.> > > > > > >George H.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
Reply by ●December 19, 20122012-12-19
On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 06:40:41 -0800 (PST), George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:>On Dec 18, 9:26�pm, josephkk <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 17:06:51 -0800 (PST), George Herold >> >> >> >> >> >> <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote: >> >> >> >Hmmmm. �I think i have some beautiful ways to make autoset very >> >> >challenging, a few modulated signals with the modulation signal appearing >> >> >elsewhere. �And we can produce many more signals easily so long as they do >> >> >not have to be really high quality of their type. �Maybe 30 to 50 signals? >> >> >Indeed, low quality signals may be more challenging. >> >> >> >+/- 12 and 15 V stuff is getting scarce, maybe we want to change to +/- 5 >> >> >V analog and 3.3 V logic. �As you say packaging and PS are major cost >> >> >items, let's see what we can do about that. >> >> >> >?-) >> >> >> If you do move forward on this, I'd appreciate being kept in >> >> the loop at some level acceptable to you. I'm very interested >> >> if that's okay. >> >> >Yeah sure... Jon as I've said to you, I don't expect to make much (if >> >any) money from teachscope.. the volume/cost is too low unless someone >> >wants to market it to groups other than physics labs. >> >I saw the 50MHz Rigol scope, for $330?, >> >can't sell teachscope for more than a scope! >> >> I am not so sure about that, a lot depends on how we position ourselves in >> the market. �Just the same it would be a tough sell. > >Well the only market that I have access to is college and university >physics labs. Marketing is expensive, I think part of the reason >that we dropped the product was that we were coming out with a new >catalog. I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but it was several $k for >the printing of a nice glossy catalog page. (in quantities of 5k to >10k... again I'm vague on the numbers...) Putting teachscope in the >new catalog would cost more than the profits at least for several >years.Does anyone actually use glossy catalogs, anymore? Vendors obviously publish them because they show up with them but after thumbing through them for maybe a few minutes, either they go back with the vendor or in the trash. The web is an infinitely better marketing tool and a *lot* cheaper.>>> >Maybe it could be a sparkfun thing? >> >> That is worth serious consideration, it could be sold case less and no PS, >> with designs for the case and labeling. �Normal PS might be a USB wall >> wart (~ 3$ US ?) and make the rest onboard, with their test signals as >> part of the signals to look for. > >If the pcb could be done all surface mount, with all components on one >side. Then you might be able to use the other side as the 'user' >interface. pcb silk screeen becomes the artwork, and you just need a >five sided (plastic) box as a back side cover.You're not going to put traces on the back side? That seems a waste. Many devices mount the UI buttons on the main board. It's a PITA to route around them but do-able. A cheap overlay looks a lot better and is more durable than PCB and silk (ick).>(I'm thinking of Dave Jones and his uA current meter gizmo.... I could >find a link if you don't know of what I speak.)Is this going to be a one-off?
Reply by ●December 19, 20122012-12-19
On Dec 18, 9:31=A0pm, josephkk <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:> On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 17:34:39 -0800, Jon Kirwan <j...@infinitefactors.org> > wrote: > > > > >>Yeah sure... Jon as I've said to you, I don't expect to make much (if > >>any) money from teachscope.. the volume/cost is too low unless someone > >>wants to market it to groups other than physics labs. > >>I saw the 50MHz Rigol scope, for $330?, > >>can't sell teachscope for more than a scope! > > >>Maybe it could be a sparkfun thing? > > >Actually, it would be just plain enjoyable. > > <snip> > > > But I > >looked very much forward to this and have read through and > >collected various ideas from the user point of view, plus > >examined various ideas (including Walsh function approaches) > >to this project. I consider it just plain fun -- especially > >if this is done with a focus like J=F6rg on absolute least cost > >while providing the most possible with that. > > >I've also a 3D printer that was build earlier this year and > >is working nicely. I considered a proto from that, as well. > > >Anyway, I'd love to see something done you could either point > >to or else sell. Money isn't my focus... it's just pure fun > >to me. > > I am cool with all that. > George this is your project so far, what say you. > > ?-)Grin, I don't really want it as a project! I'm happy to consult, advise, give you access to 'my' market. I've got more profitable 'fish' to fry. That said, I wouldn't mind working on it during 'my own' time. (My own time seems awfully limitied these days, given work, house, my wife and two wonderful kids... ages 11 and 13. They suck up a lot of time... which is great, in a few years they'll be gone... well not the wife :^) George H.
Reply by ●December 19, 20122012-12-19
On Dec 18, 9:45=A0pm, Jon Kirwan <j...@infinitefactors.org> wrote:> On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 18:26:06 -0800, josephkk > > > > > > <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 17:06:51 -0800 (PST), George Herold > ><gher...@teachspin.com> wrote: > > >>> >Hmmmm. =A0I think i have some beautiful ways to make autoset very > >>> >challenging, a few modulated signals with the modulation signal appe=aring> >>> >elsewhere. =A0And we can produce many more signals easily so long as=they do> >>> >not have to be really high quality of their type. =A0Maybe 30 to 50 =signals?> >>> >Indeed, low quality signals may be more challenging. > > >>> >+/- 12 and 15 V stuff is getting scarce, maybe we want to change to =+/- 5> >>> >V analog and 3.3 V logic. =A0As you say packaging and PS are major c=ost> >>> >items, let's see what we can do about that. > > >>> >?-) > > >>> If you do move forward on this, I'd appreciate being kept in > >>> the loop at some level acceptable to you. I'm very interested > >>> if that's okay. > > >>Yeah sure... Jon as I've said to you, I don't expect to make much (if > >>any) money from teachscope.. the volume/cost is too low unless someone > >>wants to market it to groups other than physics labs. > >>I saw the 50MHz Rigol scope, for $330?, > >>can't sell teachscope for more than a scope! > > >I am not so sure about that, a lot depends on how we position ourselves =in> >the market. =A0Just the same it would be a tough sell. > > I agree that it could sell for the cost of a scope -- > depending on what is included. For example, it may provide > alternate functions (signal generator?) which later have > practical use, as well. And especially with a nice manual.Well that's fine too... If you want to grow it into something bigger. We also have a use for function generators that go below a few Hz. We resell these protek function generators, which leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. There is a six or seven digit frequency display, the last few digits of which are meaningless, you change the freq. from 1.00000 kHz to 1.00001 kHz on the display, but nothing changes at the output.> > >>Maybe it could be a sparkfun thing? > > >That is worth serious consideration, it could be sold case less and no P=S,> >with designs for the case and labeling. =A0Normal PS might be a USB wall > >wart (~ 3$ US ?) and make the rest onboard, with their test signals as > >part of the signals to look for. > > I think making it "ready to go" out of the box will give it > wider utility. It would be nice to give it the look and feel > of a typical Rigol instrument, in fact. > > But I'm also for anything fun. > > Perhaps start by examining existing oscilloscope tutorials > (some manuals have been produced for that) and similar > manuals for similar tutoring devices like this. See what > others have considered and done. Make a list, work through it > and organize it with an eye to functional blocks. Then widdle > away expensive functional blocks that can't be justified > (along with the associated features that require them.) Then > see where that leaves things and find the right balance. > (Delving enough into certain details may be required to lock > down that they can be achieved, of course.)Grin, knock yourself out! In some ways I fear that (many) physicist's have already abandoned 'scopes. I was at a summer meeting and saw demo experiments where the interface was National Instruments (DAC)-> labview-> computer. With no =91real time=92 display of the signal. It seemed crazy to me not to have a =91scope to give (at least) real time diagnostics of what was happening. But clearly a scope was not a tool that they felt comfortable using... sigh. George H.> > Jon- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
