Any low power low frequency quadrature receivers?

On 4 Maj, 21:10, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Glenn wrote:
> > On 04/05/12 02.53, Joerg wrote:
> >> While looking at a single sideband receiver project that may be coming
> >> up I checked the usual suspects for quadrature demodulators. Many won'=
t
> >> (technically ...) go much below 100MHz. Some do and I need to be more =
in
> >> the 5-10MHz region. But they are massive guzzlers when it comes to
> >> draining the battery. Like this one which slurps a whole watt (!):
>
> >>http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/5584f.pdf
>
> >> Isn't there anything better out there that hasn't been discontinued? O=
r
> >> do I have to roll my own again?
>
> > How about this one?:
>
> > 12V 50mA (74HC4052 based):
>
> > Direct Conversion HF Receiver with DDS VFO, OH2NLT and OH7SV:
> >http://www.nikkemedia.fi/juma-rx1/index-en.html
>
> That's the good old classical way with a very "busy" schematic:
>
> http://www.nikkemedia.fi/juma-rx1/juma-rx1-main-SCH-Rev-E.pdf
>
> > -
>
> > 12V 11mA:
>
> > Very High Performance Image Rejecting Direct Conversion Receivers
> > Or how can an 11 ma receiver out perform the world=92s best ham
> > transceivers?:
> >http://www.norcalqrp.org/files/AustinNC2030Presentation.pdf
>
> Almost the same.
>
> > -
>
> > 144MHz All Mode Transceiver:
> >http://www.qsl.net/va3iul/144MHz%20All%20Mode%20Transceiver/2m_allmod...
>
> Yikes! Somebody must have been vey patient at the soldering station :-)
>
> > MC1496:
> >http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=3DMC1496
>
> You get one lone mixer in a fairly big package, like with the SA612.
> After it's all said and done you've got a whole big circuit board full
> of stuff. I just won't have that much space in this case.
>
> > -
>
> > More here:
> >http://home.pages.at/chirt/Projects/HDR2005/ref/ref.htm
>
> Thanks, Glenn. Unfortunately none of the authors seems to have found a
> more integrated solution than the usual concoction of single-part mixers
> and logic chips. If I absolutely have to I'll probably use logic chips,
> the main reason being that those can now be bought in TSSOP packages
> whereas mixers can't be.
>
> --

Why not use a cheap microcontroller, low current like the Cortex M0
NXP series.

Simple analog bandpass filter of the incoming signal, syncronize a ADC
from a PWM Local Osc generated by the micro, use a low frequency FIR
filter to regenerate the shifted down signal from the undersampled
output of the ADC.

The ADC needs to be triggered with low jitter, but that should be
simple.

The Cortex M0 can run at full speed below 1mA, add another 1mA for a
1MSa/s ADC. A number of other microcontrollers can do the same, the
Cortex is just a very nice part.

Regards

Klaus

Den fredag den 4. maj 2012 22.26.13 UTC+2 skrev Kvik:
> On 4 Maj, 21:10, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > Glenn wrote:
> > > On 04/05/12 02.53, Joerg wrote:
> > >> While looking at a single sideband receiver project that may be comi=
ng
> > >> up I checked the usual suspects for quadrature demodulators. Many wo=
n't
> > >> (technically ...) go much below 100MHz. Some do and I need to be mor=
e in
> > >> the 5-10MHz region. But they are massive guzzlers when it comes to
> > >> draining the battery. Like this one which slurps a whole watt (!):
> >
> > >>http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/5584f.pdf
> >
> > >> Isn't there anything better out there that hasn't been discontinued?=
 Or
> > >> do I have to roll my own again?
> >
> > > How about this one?:
> >
> > > 12V 50mA (74HC4052 based):
> >
> > > Direct Conversion HF Receiver with DDS VFO, OH2NLT and OH7SV:
> > >http://www.nikkemedia.fi/juma-rx1/index-en.html
> >
> > That's the good old classical way with a very "busy" schematic:
> >
> > http://www.nikkemedia.fi/juma-rx1/juma-rx1-main-SCH-Rev-E.pdf
> >
> > > -
> >
> > > 12V 11mA:
> >
> > > Very High Performance Image Rejecting Direct Conversion Receivers
> > > Or how can an 11 ma receiver out perform the world=92s best ham
> > > transceivers?:
> > >http://www.norcalqrp.org/files/AustinNC2030Presentation.pdf
> >
> > Almost the same.
> >
> > > -
> >
> > > 144MHz All Mode Transceiver:
> > >http://www.qsl.net/va3iul/144MHz%20All%20Mode%20Transceiver/2m_allmod.=
..
> >
> > Yikes! Somebody must have been vey patient at the soldering station :-)
> >
> > > MC1496:
> > >http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=3DMC1496
> >
> > You get one lone mixer in a fairly big package, like with the SA612.
> > After it's all said and done you've got a whole big circuit board full
> > of stuff. I just won't have that much space in this case.
> >
> > > -
> >
> > > More here:
> > >http://home.pages.at/chirt/Projects/HDR2005/ref/ref.htm
> >
> > Thanks, Glenn. Unfortunately none of the authors seems to have found a
> > more integrated solution than the usual concoction of single-part mixer=
s
> > and logic chips. If I absolutely have to I'll probably use logic chips,
> > the main reason being that those can now be bought in TSSOP packages
> > whereas mixers can't be.
> >
> > --
>=20
> Why not use a cheap microcontroller, low current like the Cortex M0
> NXP series.
>=20
> Simple analog bandpass filter of the incoming signal, syncronize a ADC
> from a PWM Local Osc generated by the micro, use a low frequency FIR
> filter to regenerate the shifted down signal from the undersampled
> output of the ADC.
>=20
> The ADC needs to be triggered with low jitter, but that should be
> simple.
>=20
> The Cortex M0 can run at full speed below 1mA, add another 1mA for a
> 1MSa/s ADC. A number of other microcontrollers can do the same, the
> Cortex is just a very nice part.
>=20

Size wise, the Cortex actually comes in a die version, 2 by 2 mm, Chip Scal=
e Package (CSP)......

Regards

Klaus

Den fredag den 4. maj 2012 22.26.13 UTC+2 skrev Kvik:
> On 4 Maj, 21:10, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > Glenn wrote:
> > > On 04/05/12 02.53, Joerg wrote:
> > >> While looking at a single sideband receiver project that may be comi=
ng
> > >> up I checked the usual suspects for quadrature demodulators. Many wo=
n't
> > >> (technically ...) go much below 100MHz. Some do and I need to be mor=
e in
> > >> the 5-10MHz region. But they are massive guzzlers when it comes to
> > >> draining the battery. Like this one which slurps a whole watt (!):
> >
> > >>http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/5584f.pdf
> >
> > >> Isn't there anything better out there that hasn't been discontinued?=
 Or
> > >> do I have to roll my own again?
> >
> > > How about this one?:
> >
> > > 12V 50mA (74HC4052 based):
> >
> > > Direct Conversion HF Receiver with DDS VFO, OH2NLT and OH7SV:
> > >http://www.nikkemedia.fi/juma-rx1/index-en.html
> >
> > That's the good old classical way with a very "busy" schematic:
> >
> > http://www.nikkemedia.fi/juma-rx1/juma-rx1-main-SCH-Rev-E.pdf
> >
> > > -
> >
> > > 12V 11mA:
> >
> > > Very High Performance Image Rejecting Direct Conversion Receivers
> > > Or how can an 11 ma receiver out perform the world=92s best ham
> > > transceivers?:
> > >http://www.norcalqrp.org/files/AustinNC2030Presentation.pdf
> >
> > Almost the same.
> >
> > > -
> >
> > > 144MHz All Mode Transceiver:
> > >http://www.qsl.net/va3iul/144MHz%20All%20Mode%20Transceiver/2m_allmod.=
..
> >
> > Yikes! Somebody must have been vey patient at the soldering station :-)
> >
> > > MC1496:
> > >http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=3DMC1496
> >
> > You get one lone mixer in a fairly big package, like with the SA612.
> > After it's all said and done you've got a whole big circuit board full
> > of stuff. I just won't have that much space in this case.
> >
> > > -
> >
> > > More here:
> > >http://home.pages.at/chirt/Projects/HDR2005/ref/ref.htm
> >
> > Thanks, Glenn. Unfortunately none of the authors seems to have found a
> > more integrated solution than the usual concoction of single-part mixer=
s
> > and logic chips. If I absolutely have to I'll probably use logic chips,
> > the main reason being that those can now be bought in TSSOP packages
> > whereas mixers can't be.
> >
> > --
>=20
> Why not use a cheap microcontroller, low current like the Cortex M0
> NXP series.
>=20
> Simple analog bandpass filter of the incoming signal, syncronize a ADC
> from a PWM Local Osc generated by the micro, use a low frequency FIR
> filter to regenerate the shifted down signal from the undersampled
> output of the ADC.
>=20
> The ADC needs to be triggered with low jitter, but that should be
> simple.
>=20
> The Cortex M0 can run at full speed below 1mA, add another 1mA for a
> 1MSa/s ADC. A number of other microcontrollers can do the same, the
> Cortex is just a very nice part.
>=20
> Regards
>=20
> Klaus

And you may need an external S/H if the ADC input frequency is to low....

If you feel you need to do direct conversion or analog I/Q  (Ahem, I
hope not!)  Heyward's  "Solid State Design for the Radio Amateur" is
loaded with QRP direct conversion and many simple quadrature IF
schemes.

I hope you find a AM/ssb chip.

Steve

You can also look at the Phillips App note for the "Weaver" method.

http://ics.nxp.com/support/documents/interface/pdf/an1981.pdf

Steve

http://ics.nxp.com/support/documents/interface/pdf/an1981.pdf

Steve

http://ics.nxp.com/support/documents/interface/pdf/an1981.pdf

If you come up with anything cheap, please let me know.  I'm looking
for a  SIMPLE SSB 144 Mhz IF for my 10.368 Ghz ham radio stuff.
Preferably one that does not need hand picked microprocessor crystals
for IF filters.

Steve

Kvik wrote:
> On 4 Maj, 21:10, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Glenn wrote:
>>> On 04/05/12 02.53, Joerg wrote:
>>>> While looking at a single sideband receiver project that may be coming
>>>> up I checked the usual suspects for quadrature demodulators. Many won't
>>>> (technically ...) go much below 100MHz. Some do and I need to be more in
>>>> the 5-10MHz region. But they are massive guzzlers when it comes to
>>>> draining the battery. Like this one which slurps a whole watt (!):
>>>> http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/5584f.pdf
>>>> Isn't there anything better out there that hasn't been discontinued? Or
>>>> do I have to roll my own again?
>>> How about this one?:
>>> 12V 50mA (74HC4052 based):
>>> Direct Conversion HF Receiver with DDS VFO, OH2NLT and OH7SV:
>>> http://www.nikkemedia.fi/juma-rx1/index-en.html
>> That's the good old classical way with a very "busy" schematic:
>>
>> http://www.nikkemedia.fi/juma-rx1/juma-rx1-main-SCH-Rev-E.pdf
>>
>>> -
>>> 12V 11mA:
>>> Very High Performance Image Rejecting Direct Conversion Receivers
>>> Or how can an 11 ma receiver out perform the world&#4294967295;s best ham
>>> transceivers?:
>>> http://www.norcalqrp.org/files/AustinNC2030Presentation.pdf
>> Almost the same.
>>
>>> -
>>> 144MHz All Mode Transceiver:
>>> http://www.qsl.net/va3iul/144MHz%20All%20Mode%20Transceiver/2m_allmod...
>> Yikes! Somebody must have been vey patient at the soldering station :-)
>>
>>> MC1496:
>>> http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=MC1496
>> You get one lone mixer in a fairly big package, like with the SA612.
>> After it's all said and done you've got a whole big circuit board full
>> of stuff. I just won't have that much space in this case.
>>
>>> -
>>> More here:
>>> http://home.pages.at/chirt/Projects/HDR2005/ref/ref.htm
>> Thanks, Glenn. Unfortunately none of the authors seems to have found a
>> more integrated solution than the usual concoction of single-part mixers
>> and logic chips. If I absolutely have to I'll probably use logic chips,
>> the main reason being that those can now be bought in TSSOP packages
>> whereas mixers can't be.
>>
>> --
> 
> Why not use a cheap microcontroller, low current like the Cortex M0
> NXP series.
> 
> Simple analog bandpass filter of the incoming signal, syncronize a ADC
> from a PWM Local Osc generated by the micro, use a low frequency FIR
> filter to regenerate the shifted down signal from the undersampled
> output of the ADC.
> 
> The ADC needs to be triggered with low jitter, but that should be
> simple.
> 
> The Cortex M0 can run at full speed below 1mA, add another 1mA for a
> 1MSa/s ADC. A number of other microcontrollers can do the same, the
> Cortex is just a very nice part.
> 

First we'd have to mix it down for that because my signal will be at
5-10MHz carrier frequency. Can also be undersampled, of course, but
that'll cost a little SNR. Which would probably be ok in this
application, we don't need to be able to hear the grass grow.

Initially I thought about using a PSoC because it already has digital
blocks for the quadrature oscillator generation. Also switched-capacitor
blocks which I should be able to "mis-use" as mixers, and then opamps
for some gain. But I am not a programmer whizkid. Once we get into a
higher volume project I'll revisit that, possibly a PSoC-3 is the ticket
here if I disable the uC in there. The on-board ADC capabilities are a
bit paltry though.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Owen Roberts wrote:
> If you feel you need to do direct conversion or analog I/Q  (Ahem, I
> hope not!) ...


Unfortunately, yes, that's exactly what I need to do.


>       ... Heyward's  "Solid State Design for the Radio Amateur" is
> loaded with QRP direct conversion and many simple quadrature IF
> schemes.
> 
> I hope you find a AM/ssb chip.
> 

My hope in that respect has dwindled quite a bit. There used to be a
TDA-something chip but NXP has discontinued a lot of chips. Anything
else I've seen falls more under the energy guzzler class where you
pretty much can't operate it unless there is a wall outlet, and in this
case there isn't.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 5 Maj, 00:32, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Kvik wrote:
> > On 4 Maj, 21:10, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> Glenn wrote:
> >>> On 04/05/12 02.53, Joerg wrote:
> >>>> While looking at a single sideband receiver project that may be comi=
ng
> >>>> up I checked the usual suspects for quadrature demodulators. Many wo=
n't
> >>>> (technically ...) go much below 100MHz. Some do and I need to be mor=
e in
> >>>> the 5-10MHz region. But they are massive guzzlers when it comes to
> >>>> draining the battery. Like this one which slurps a whole watt (!):
> >>>>http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/5584f.pdf
> >>>> Isn't there anything better out there that hasn't been discontinued?=
 Or
> >>>> do I have to roll my own again?
> >>> How about this one?:
> >>> 12V 50mA (74HC4052 based):
> >>> Direct Conversion HF Receiver with DDS VFO, OH2NLT and OH7SV:
> >>>http://www.nikkemedia.fi/juma-rx1/index-en.html
> >> That's the good old classical way with a very "busy" schematic:
>
> >>http://www.nikkemedia.fi/juma-rx1/juma-rx1-main-SCH-Rev-E.pdf
>
> >>> -
> >>> 12V 11mA:
> >>> Very High Performance Image Rejecting Direct Conversion Receivers
> >>> Or how can an 11 ma receiver out perform the world=92s best ham
> >>> transceivers?:
> >>>http://www.norcalqrp.org/files/AustinNC2030Presentation.pdf
> >> Almost the same.
>
> >>> -
> >>> 144MHz All Mode Transceiver:
> >>>http://www.qsl.net/va3iul/144MHz%20All%20Mode%20Transceiver/2m_allmod.=
..
> >> Yikes! Somebody must have been vey patient at the soldering station :-=
)
>
> >>> MC1496:
> >>>http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=3DMC1496
> >> You get one lone mixer in a fairly big package, like with the SA612.
> >> After it's all said and done you've got a whole big circuit board full
> >> of stuff. I just won't have that much space in this case.
>
> >>> -
> >>> More here:
> >>>http://home.pages.at/chirt/Projects/HDR2005/ref/ref.htm
> >> Thanks, Glenn. Unfortunately none of the authors seems to have found a
> >> more integrated solution than the usual concoction of single-part mixe=
rs
> >> and logic chips. If I absolutely have to I'll probably use logic chips=
,
> >> the main reason being that those can now be bought in TSSOP packages
> >> whereas mixers can't be.
>
> >> --
>
> > Why not use a cheap microcontroller, low current like the Cortex M0
> > NXP series.
>
> > Simple analog bandpass filter of the incoming signal, syncronize a ADC
> > from a PWM Local Osc generated by the micro, use a low frequency FIR
> > filter to regenerate the shifted down signal from the undersampled
> > output of the ADC.
>
> > The ADC needs to be triggered with low jitter, but that should be
> > simple.
>
> > The Cortex M0 can run at full speed below 1mA, add another 1mA for a
> > 1MSa/s ADC. A number of other microcontrollers can do the same, the
> > Cortex is just a very nice part.
>
> First we'd have to mix it down for that because my signal will be at
> 5-10MHz carrier frequency. Can also be undersampled, of course, but
> that'll cost a little SNR. Which would probably be ok in this
> application, we don't need to be able to hear the grass grow.
>
> Initially I thought about using a PSoC because it already has digital
> blocks for the quadrature oscillator generation. Also switched-capacitor
> blocks which I should be able to "mis-use" as mixers, and then opamps
> for some gain. But I am not a programmer whizkid. Once we get into a
> higher volume project I'll revisit that, possibly a PSoC-3 is the ticket
> here if I disable the uC in there. The on-board ADC capabilities are a
> bit paltry though.
>
> --

AFAIC the psoc1 max mixer freq is in tens of kHz whereas the psoc3 can
handle up to 1 MHz. You may be able to use the psoc1 internal analog
bus as a integrated S/H, but I don't think the specs are to your
liking.

Regards

Klaus