Video monitors and CCD cameras.

For one of our instruments, Diode laser spectroscopy, (http://
www.teachspin.com/instruments/diode_laser/index.shtml)
We use a  CCD camera and little TV to image the NIR laser spot and
observe the Rubidium fluorescence.  (Used to tune the laser to the
correct wavelength.)

So we didn=92t buy a lifetime supply of either the cameras or TVs and
now they are both disappearing.   (about a years supply of each on the
shelf.)

(Camera is a B&W CM625 made in Korea and distributed by cloverusa.)
I tried a color CCD camera made by the same people and still in
production.
CCM630  This had two issues.  First it has a NIR filter over the CCD
element that had to be pried off.  And second the sensitivity is not
as high.
B&W CM625 lists minimum illumination as 0.05 lux (f 1.2) and
color CCM630 at 0.1 lux (f 1.2)

We could work with the reduced sensitivity, but it is very nice when
you are aligning the grating on the laser.

The little TV=92s have 6=94 x 8=94 foot print (15mm x 20mm) so they don=92t
take up that much room on the optical bread board.  It is nice to have
the monitor =91right in your face=92 as you are aligning the grating.  We
also mount the camera on an optical post so you can move it around the
bread board and poke into what you need to see.

So I=92m looking for a new solution.
Here=92s some ideas.
1.) Just find a cheap =91web cam=92 and let everyone use their laptop
computer.
    I have some issue=92s with this.
a.) will the camera work with all laptops?
b.) requires user to have laptop

2.) Video surveillance gear.  What are these people using for
monitors?
Are there any little LCD (or other) displays that I could use.?

Thanks in advance for any ideas, suggestions

George H.

On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 09:03:27 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

>
>For one of our instruments, Diode laser spectroscopy, (http://
>www.teachspin.com/instruments/diode_laser/index.shtml)
>We use a  CCD camera and little TV to image the NIR laser spot and
>observe the Rubidium fluorescence.  (Used to tune the laser to the
>correct wavelength.)
>
>So we didn&#4294967295;t buy a lifetime supply of either the cameras or TVs and
>now they are both disappearing.   (about a years supply of each on the
>shelf.)
>
>(Camera is a B&W CM625 made in Korea and distributed by cloverusa.)
>I tried a color CCD camera made by the same people and still in
>production.
>CCM630  This had two issues.  First it has a NIR filter over the CCD
>element that had to be pried off.  And second the sensitivity is not
>as high.
>B&W CM625 lists minimum illumination as 0.05 lux (f 1.2) and
>color CCM630 at 0.1 lux (f 1.2)
>
>We could work with the reduced sensitivity, but it is very nice when
>you are aligning the grating on the laser.
>
>The little TV&#4294967295;s have 6&#4294967295; x 8&#4294967295; foot print (15mm x 20mm) so they don&#4294967295;t
>take up that much room on the optical bread board.  It is nice to have
>the monitor &#4294967295;right in your face&#4294967295; as you are aligning the grating.  We
>also mount the camera on an optical post so you can move it around the
>bread board and poke into what you need to see.
>
>So I&#4294967295;m looking for a new solution.
>Here&#4294967295;s some ideas.
>1.) Just find a cheap &#4294967295;web cam&#4294967295; and let everyone use their laptop
>computer.
>    I have some issue&#4294967295;s with this.
>a.) will the camera work with all laptops?
>b.) requires user to have laptop
>
>2.) Video surveillance gear.  What are these people using for
>monitors?
>Are there any little LCD (or other) displays that I could use.?
>
>Thanks in advance for any ideas, suggestions
>
>George H.

What about a regular photography-type camera? Just look in the
viewfinder. I have one camera that images light from a 1050 nm laser.
It looks whitish-purple.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Cam_1050.jpg

(Of course, that was rather a lot of light.)

But cheap USB webcams seem to usually work with Windows, the standard
media viewer, no drivers or such required. Buy a half dozen for maybe
$10 each, and try them.



-- 

John Larkin                  Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com   jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com   

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME  analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

On Apr 17, 12:33=A0pm, John Larkin
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 09:03:27 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
>
>
>
>
>
> <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
>
> >For one of our instruments, Diode laser spectroscopy, (http://
> >www.teachspin.com/instruments/diode_laser/index.shtml)
> >We use a =A0CCD camera and little TV to image the NIR laser spot and
> >observe the Rubidium fluorescence. =A0(Used to tune the laser to the
> >correct wavelength.)
>
> >So we didn=92t buy a lifetime supply of either the cameras or TVs and
> >now they are both disappearing. =A0 (about a years supply of each on the
> >shelf.)
>
> >(Camera is a B&W CM625 made in Korea and distributed by cloverusa.)
> >I tried a color CCD camera made by the same people and still in
> >production.
> >CCM630 =A0This had two issues. =A0First it has a NIR filter over the CCD
> >element that had to be pried off. =A0And second the sensitivity is not
> >as high.
> >B&W CM625 lists minimum illumination as 0.05 lux (f 1.2) and
> >color CCM630 at 0.1 lux (f 1.2)
>
> >We could work with the reduced sensitivity, but it is very nice when
> >you are aligning the grating on the laser.
>
> >The little TV=92s have 6=94 x 8=94 foot print (15mm x 20mm) so they don=
=92t
> >take up that much room on the optical bread board. =A0It is nice to have
> >the monitor =91right in your face=92 as you are aligning the grating. =
=A0We
> >also mount the camera on an optical post so you can move it around the
> >bread board and poke into what you need to see.
>
> >So I=92m looking for a new solution.
> >Here=92s some ideas.
> >1.) Just find a cheap =91web cam=92 and let everyone use their laptop
> >computer.
> > =A0 =A0I have some issue=92s with this.
> >a.) will the camera work with all laptops?
> >b.) requires user to have laptop
>
> >2.) Video surveillance gear. =A0What are these people using for
> >monitors?
> >Are there any little LCD (or other) displays that I could use.?
>
> >Thanks in advance for any ideas, suggestions
>
> >George H.
>
> What about a regular photography-type camera? Just look in the
> viewfinder. I have one camera that images light from a 1050 nm laser.
> It looks whitish-purple.
>
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Cam_1050.jpg

Oh that's interesting.  I need a really cheap camera, else it will
have the 'standard' NIR filter and block out ~780-795 nm light I want
to see.  I'll try the one I have here.
>
> (Of course, that was rather a lot of light.)
>
> But cheap USB webcams seem to usually work with Windows, the standard
> media viewer, no drivers or such required. Buy a half dozen for maybe
> $10 each, and try them.

Yeah I'll have to order a bunch, this looks like the simplist
solution... It does put some onus on the user.

George H
>
> --
>
> John Larkin =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Highland Technology Incwww=
.highlandtechnology.com=A0 jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
>
> Precision electronic instrumentation
> Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
> Custom timing and laser controllers
> Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
> VME =A0analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
> Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Apr 2012 09:03:27 -0700 (PDT)) it happened George
Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in
<d3f3bee7-493c-46d0-af4d-52b795dd7f43@h5g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>:

>
>For one of our instruments, Diode laser spectroscopy, (http://
>www.teachspin.com/instruments/diode_laser/index.shtml)
>We use a  CCD camera and little TV to image the NIR laser spot and
>observe the Rubidium fluorescence.  (Used to tune the laser to the
>correct wavelength.)
>
>So we didn&#4294967295;t buy a lifetime supply of either the cameras or TVs and
>now they are both disappearing.   (about a years supply of each on the
>shelf.)
>
>(Camera is a B&W CM625 made in Korea and distributed by cloverusa.)
>I tried a color CCD camera made by the same people and still in
>production.
>CCM630  This had two issues.  First it has a NIR filter over the CCD
>element that had to be pried off.  And second the sensitivity is not
>as high.
>B&W CM625 lists minimum illumination as 0.05 lux (f 1.2) and
>color CCM630 at 0.1 lux (f 1.2)
>
>We could work with the reduced sensitivity, but it is very nice when
>you are aligning the grating on the laser.
>
>The little TV&#4294967295;s have 6&#4294967295; x 8&#4294967295; foot print (15mm x 20mm) so they don&#4294967295;t
>take up that much room on the optical bread board.  It is nice to have
>the monitor &#4294967295;right in your face&#4294967295; as you are aligning the grating.  We
>also mount the camera on an optical post so you can move it around the
>bread board and poke into what you need to see.
>
>So I&#4294967295;m looking for a new solution.
>Here&#4294967295;s some ideas.
>1.) Just find a cheap &#4294967295;web cam&#4294967295; and let everyone use their laptop
>computer.
>    I have some issue&#4294967295;s with this.
>a.) will the camera work with all laptops?
>b.) requires user to have laptop
>
>2.) Video surveillance gear.  What are these people using for
>monitors?
>Are there any little LCD (or other) displays that I could use.?
>
>Thanks in advance for any ideas, suggestions
>
>George H.

For monitor I have 2 of these:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/mini-3-5-TFT-Color-LCD-Car-Monitor-for-analog-pal-ntsc-/170671900032?pt=UK_In_Car_Technology&hash=item27bcd68580
One has a bit dark spot, but picture on both is very good,
About 220mA @ 12V IIRC
 
Cameras is a much longer story, I have used this with a small PAL color camera
from www.conrad.nl to look at details of electronics cicuits.
I dunno of these cameras ae any good for hat you want,'
but the advantage of this over any webcams is that there is no delay (latency).
I have expensive ethernet webcam too, and the delay is sometimes
up to seconds (buffering), and small webcams like the Logitechs
I have also delay to much for practical use with tools.
The little Conrad PAL cameras with this monitor are great.
Not sure you can still get them though, maybe I bought all the stock ;-)

George Herold wrote:

> 
> For one of our instruments, Diode laser spectroscopy, (http://
> www.teachspin.com/instruments/diode_laser/index.shtml)
> We use a  CCD camera and little TV to image the NIR laser spot and
> observe the Rubidium fluorescence.  (Used to tune the laser to the
> correct wavelength.)
> 
I have bought some monochrome NTSC cameras sold on eBay for
"security camera" use.  I have no idea of the real sensitivity,
but they were about $30.  They work fine for my application
of aligning parts on a pick and place machine.  I put a couple
white LEDs on it for illumination.  I also don't know about IR
filters on them, but they are sometimes used with IR LEDs for
covert camera use, so I'll bet they DON'T have the filter.

Jon

> I have bought some monochrome NTSC cameras sold on eBay for
> "security camera" use.  I have no idea of the real sensitivity,
> but they were about $30.  They work fine for my application
> of aligning parts on a pick and place machine.  I put a couple
> white LEDs on it for illumination.  I also don't know about IR
> filters on them, but they are sometimes used with IR LEDs for
> covert camera use, so I'll bet they DON'T have the filter.
>
> Jon

Most cheap B&W CCD cameras don't have IR filters. In fact, the only B&W 
CCD TV cameras I've run into with IR filters are industrial grade Sony 
that you find in machine vision applications.

I wouldn't call them cheap, but cameras that use Sony CCDs with 
Super-HAAD are great for NIR. You can see a soldering iron through them. 
[This is due to the black body radiation, which has a tail into NIR. The 
peak IR is obviously too long in wavelength for a silicon CCD.]

As an aside, there is paint that the NIR cameras can see through, but 
looks black to the naked eye. It was developed for secret barcode 
applications, but I don't believe I ever saw it used in real life. It 
even exists in fabric, so you can have messages only seen by the cameras.

On Apr 17, 4:00=A0pm, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Apr 2012 09:03:27 -0700 (PDT)) it happened George
> Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote in
> <d3f3bee7-493c-46d0-af4d-52b795dd7...@h5g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >For one of our instruments, Diode laser spectroscopy, (http://
> >www.teachspin.com/instruments/diode_laser/index.shtml)
> >We use a =A0CCD camera and little TV to image the NIR laser spot and
> >observe the Rubidium fluorescence. =A0(Used to tune the laser to the
> >correct wavelength.)
>
> >So we didn=92t buy a lifetime supply of either the cameras or TVs and
> >now they are both disappearing. =A0 (about a years supply of each on the
> >shelf.)
>
> >(Camera is a B&W CM625 made in Korea and distributed by cloverusa.)
> >I tried a color CCD camera made by the same people and still in
> >production.
> >CCM630 =A0This had two issues. =A0First it has a NIR filter over the CCD
> >element that had to be pried off. =A0And second the sensitivity is not
> >as high.
> >B&W CM625 lists minimum illumination as 0.05 lux (f 1.2) and
> >color CCM630 at 0.1 lux (f 1.2)
>
> >We could work with the reduced sensitivity, but it is very nice when
> >you are aligning the grating on the laser.
>
> >The little TV=92s have 6=94 x 8=94 foot print (15mm x 20mm) so they don=
=92t
> >take up that much room on the optical bread board. =A0It is nice to have
> >the monitor =91right in your face=92 as you are aligning the grating. =
=A0We
> >also mount the camera on an optical post so you can move it around the
> >bread board and poke into what you need to see.
>
> >So I=92m looking for a new solution.
> >Here=92s some ideas.
> >1.) Just find a cheap =91web cam=92 and let everyone use their laptop
> >computer.
> > =A0 =A0I have some issue=92s with this.
> >a.) will the camera work with all laptops?
> >b.) requires user to have laptop
>
> >2.) Video surveillance gear. =A0What are these people using for
> >monitors?
> >Are there any little LCD (or other) displays that I could use.?
>
> >Thanks in advance for any ideas, suggestions
>
> >George H.
>
> For monitor I have 2 of these:
> =A0http://www.ebay.com/itm/mini-3-5-TFT-Color-LCD-Car-Monitor-for-analog.=
..
> One has a bit dark spot, but picture on both is very good,
> About 220mA @ 12V IIRC

That looks nice... now I just gotta dig up the source for 50 to 100

Thanks

>
> Cameras is a much longer story, I have used this with a small PAL color c=
amera
> fromwww.conrad.nlto look at details of electronics cicuits.
> I dunno of these cameras ae any good for hat you want,'
> but the advantage of this over any webcams is that there is no delay (lat=
ency).
> I have expensive ethernet webcam too, and the delay is sometimes
> up to seconds (buffering), and small webcams like the Logitechs
> I have also delay to much for practical use with tools.
> The little Conrad PAL cameras with this monitor are great.

Oh delay would not work.  I then need a low light level, zero delay
web cam..
or some such spec.

I can still get these color CCD camera's from clover.  Not as good as
what I had, but perhaps good enough.
George H.
> Not sure you can still get them though, maybe I bought all the stock ;-)-=
 Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Apr 17, 4:40=A0pm, Jon Elson <jmel...@wustl.edu> wrote:
> George Herold wrote:
>
> > For one of our instruments, Diode laser spectroscopy, (http://
> >www.teachspin.com/instruments/diode_laser/index.shtml)
> > We use a =A0CCD camera and little TV to image the NIR laser spot and
> > observe the Rubidium fluorescence. =A0(Used to tune the laser to the
> > correct wavelength.)
>
> I have bought some monochrome NTSC cameras sold on eBay for
> "security camera" use. =A0I have no idea of the real sensitivity,
> but they were about $30. =A0They work fine for my application
> of aligning parts on a pick and place machine. =A0I put a couple
> white LEDs on it for illumination. =A0I also don't know about IR
> filters on them, but they are sometimes used with IR LEDs for
> covert camera use, so I'll bet they DON'T have the filter.
>
> Jon

Thanks Jon,  With Jan's LCD video display, I'll then just have to
search for camera's.  I really would like a supplier that can sell me
20/year for the rest of my life.  (I know a pipe dream)

George H.

On Apr 17, 5:29=A0pm, miso <m...@sushi.com> wrote:
> > I have bought some monochrome NTSC cameras sold on eBay for
> > "security camera" use. =A0I have no idea of the real sensitivity,
> > but they were about $30. =A0They work fine for my application
> > of aligning parts on a pick and place machine. =A0I put a couple
> > white LEDs on it for illumination. =A0I also don't know about IR
> > filters on them, but they are sometimes used with IR LEDs for
> > covert camera use, so I'll bet they DON'T have the filter.
>
> > Jon
>
> Most cheap B&W CCD cameras don't have IR filters. In fact, the only B&W
> CCD TV cameras I've run into with IR filters are industrial grade Sony
> that you find in machine vision applications.
>
> I wouldn't call them cheap, but cameras that use Sony CCDs with
> Super-HAAD are great for NIR. You can see a soldering iron through them.
> [This is due to the black body radiation, which has a tail into NIR. The
> peak IR is obviously too long in wavelength for a silicon CCD.]
>
> As an aside, there is paint that the NIR cameras can see through, but
> looks black to the naked eye. It was developed for secret barcode
> applications, but I don't believe I ever saw it used in real life. It
> even exists in fabric, so you can have messages only seen by the cameras.

Many years ago we went searching for fabric to make a 'black' cloth to
stop light from gettng into our optical pumping apparatus (again an Si
photodiode)  A co-worker and I were in the local fabric shop sticking
our heads under everything.  The first few plastic fabrics we picked
were lousy at blocking NIR.  Black Canvas works great!

How expensive are the camera's?  We were paying ~$50.  The cables
always break at the connector though.

George H.

On Apr 17, 12:03=A0pm, George Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
> For one of our instruments, Diode laser spectroscopy, (http://www.teachsp=
in.com/instruments/diode_laser/index.shtml)
> We use a =A0CCD camera and little TV to image the NIR laser spot and
> observe the Rubidium fluorescence. =A0(Used to tune the laser to the
> correct wavelength.)
>
> So we didn=92t buy a lifetime supply of either the cameras or TVs and
> now they are both disappearing. =A0 (about a years supply of each on the
> shelf.)
>
> (Camera is a B&W CM625 made in Korea and distributed by cloverusa.)
> I tried a color CCD camera made by the same people and still in
> production.
> CCM630 =A0This had two issues. =A0First it has a NIR filter over the CCD
> element that had to be pried off. =A0And second the sensitivity is not
> as high.
> B&W CM625 lists minimum illumination as 0.05 lux (f 1.2) and
> color CCM630 at 0.1 lux (f 1.2)
>
> We could work with the reduced sensitivity, but it is very nice when
> you are aligning the grating on the laser.
>
> The little TV=92s have 6=94 x 8=94 foot print (15mm x 20mm) so they don=
=92t
> take up that much room on the optical bread board. =A0It is nice to have
> the monitor =91right in your face=92 as you are aligning the grating. =A0=
We
> also mount the camera on an optical post so you can move it around the
> bread board and poke into what you need to see.
>
> So I=92m looking for a new solution.
> Here=92s some ideas.
> 1.) Just find a cheap =91web cam=92 and let everyone use their laptop
> computer.
> =A0 =A0 I have some issue=92s with this.
> a.) will the camera work with all laptops?
> b.) requires user to have laptop
>
> 2.) Video surveillance gear. =A0What are these people using for
> monitors?
> Are there any little LCD (or other) displays that I could use.?
>
> Thanks in advance for any ideas, suggestions
>
> George H.

Hi George,

We have bought board-level ccd cameras from supercircuits for around
$20.  The power supplies might be another $10.  You can still get
handheld LCD tv's that accept external inputs for around $50-75.  You
might need an RCA to BNC adapter, depending.

Frank