On 5/19/2017 4:40 PM, default wrote:> On Fri, 19 May 2017 12:08:46 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 5/19/2017 6:55 AM, default wrote: >>> On Thu, 18 May 2017 08:43:17 -0700, John Larkin >>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 18 May 2017 07:41:04 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 18 May 2017 06:00:58 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 2017-05-13, default <default@defaulter.net> wrote: >>>>>>> On Sat, 13 May 2017 08:35:23 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 May 2017 06:47:01 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 May 2017 10:47:54 +0200, o pere o <me@somewhere.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/05/17 00:42, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 05/10/2017 02:31 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 10 May 2017 09:57:21 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have an automatic opening trash can in the kitchen that runs off of >>>>>>>>>>>>> batteries. I wanna run it with a wall wart. When the lid opens it >>>>>>>>>>>>> draws more power than the 750 mA wall wart I tried using to power it >>>>>>>>>>>>> could deliver. This makes sense. I don't want to use a bigger wall >>>>>>>>>>>>> wart and I don't want to have betteries in it all the time to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>> the current. I'm thinking instead of using a capacitor. If the current >>>>>>>>>>>>> and voltage draw as well as the duration to open the lid is measured >>>>>>>>>>>>> can that not be used to calculate the minimum size capacitor? And if >>>>>>>>>>>>> not excessive maybe a cap that would open the lid three or four times >>>>>>>>>>>>> in a row could be used in place of the 6 AA cells it uses now. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Reasonable? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> A conventional cap, no. Maybe a super expensive supercap. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't want an electronic trash can. All that cheap, badly >>>>>>>>>>>> programmed microprocessor/LCD appliance junk will break in a couple of >>>>>>>>>>>> years, and be annoying meanwhile. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *SIX* AA cells? How long do they last? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A couple of supercaps in series might work fine. For instance, >>>>>>>>>>> SCMT22C505MRBA0 AVX CAPACITOR 5F 20% 5V 0.065ohms $5.23000 in onesies >>>>>>>>>>> from Digikey. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Two of those in series, with a TL431 across each one (set for 4.8V or >>>>>>>>>>> so) to equalize the voltage, plus a charger with about a 50 mA current >>>>>>>>>>> limit ought to work, I should think. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Is there data on leakage or self-discharge of these beasts? The >>>>>>>>>> datasheet just says "low leakage current" and this could just mean >>>>>>>>>> anything... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Pere >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The caps I'm using give the leakage at .16 ma. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/ic_search/super_products_detail.aspx?icpartnumber=700020 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 50.625 watt hours???!!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's magic, or a decimal point slipped 2 places. 1/2 watt I might >>>>>>> believe. >>>>>> >>>>>> more like 3 decimal places, 0.5*C*V*V/3600 >>>>> >>>>> I agree. Did the math and posted as much on 5/14. >>>>> >>>>> I'm thinking they mistakenly used some "one size fits all" or >>>>> watt-hours per X farads. >>>>> >>>>> In a related experiment... I'm temporarily using some Maxwell "D-cell" >>>>> series caps to power the buoy flasher that got 6 months of use from >>>>> 3-AA alkaline cells, switching to a solar charged, 175 F, 3 V system >>>>> (using caps that cost $15 each). That system is flashing the strobe, >>>>> for 8 days on the charge it can get in one day. (cover the solar >>>>> cells with aluminum foil and wait till it dies). >>>>> >>>>> So a pair of the $1.29 50 F caps should easily last a day, or perhaps >>>>> just use one 50 F and go with 2.5V. (specs on the controller that I'm >>>>> using says it works down to 2.2V, and it seems to recover and start >>>>> running it's program from the beginning when the voltage gets to about >>>>> 2V) >>>>> >>>>> The buoy that I'm illuminating belongs to the city.. So I have to keep >>>>> the cost low in case they discover that I've modified the buoy and >>>>> decide to remove my strobe, or vandals (or Visigoths) make it to that >>>>> end of the lake and steal or destroy it... >>>>> >>>>> It's become a "thing" to tweak the buoy with something different each >>>>> year. I go kayaking at 3:30 AM to avoid the summer heat, but it's a >>>>> challenge to find ways to see where I'm going in the dark on a lake >>>>> that's 2 miles long. >>>>> >>>>> Radio beacon? or perhaps a super strobe that I can trigger from 2 >>>>> miles away? >>>> >>>> Tritium light? >>>> >>>> Strontium aluminate paint? >>>> >>>> Both would be fairly short range visibility. For longer range, why not >>>> use GPS? >>> >>> Tried that too. Got a Magellan "waterproof" little hand-held thingee. >>> Cost a small fortune and wasn't waterproof enough to take dunking in >>> water. Since they stopped the extended warranty plan, I stopped >>> taking it kayaking. It was hard to read too... >>> >>> The nice thing about it was when I was on a new creek, I could see my >>> progress. >> >> They are rated as waterproof, but not very waterproof. I've yet to find >> one that will survive on the deck of a kayak for more than a season. >> Sooner or later they leak and crap out. >> >> I've never had any trouble seeing where I'm going. Even starlight is >> enough to navigate. Once the stars are gone you have to know your >> terrain (aquaine?) pretty well though. Overcast makes for interesting >> trips though. I take you paddle where there is no illumination from >> houses and such? Even a single porch light in the distance can provide >> orientation. > > Most days (nearly every day) I paddle to the end of the lake and turn > around and come back. There are two large bays jutting off the main > lake and one is nearly as long as the main lake. Add a little fog > (there have been times where I had no idea where I was) and navigation > gets interesting. The houses at the end of the lake make spotting the > buoy difficult for their lights and glare. > > It's nice to be able to make a beeline for the buoy, then I'm sure I > cover the same amount of ground each time, and can time my runs. > > It isn't a matter of life or death, or even important that I see the > buoy. But I got interested in how to best find it in the dark, and > that's evolved into a fun excuse to tinker with electronics. > > Then there's the alligators... It's a big lake and there can only be > 4-5 gators in it, but on three occasions I managed to surprise > sleeping gators - against all odds I would think. There's nothing > quite like paddling into a sleeping gator to get one's adrenaline up. > And I may know I'm not part of his food chain, but does he know? And > those things are so near-sighted they just might take me for another > gator impinging on his territory or mate.You mean they are floating at the surface sleeping? I seriously doubt they mistake you for another gator. I'm no expert, but they have lots of other senses than sight. I don't know about gators where you are, but people have been taken out of kayaks in Africa by crocs. They are smart enough to know the boat is not edible and go for the chewy center. -- Rick C
Is this scheme reasonable?
Started by ●May 10, 2017
Reply by ●May 19, 20172017-05-19
Reply by ●May 19, 20172017-05-19
On 5/19/2017 3:18 PM, default wrote:> On Fri, 19 May 2017 10:03:02 -0700, John Larkin > <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >> On Fri, 19 May 2017 06:55:25 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 18 May 2017 08:43:17 -0700, John Larkin >>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 18 May 2017 07:41:04 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 18 May 2017 06:00:58 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 2017-05-13, default <default@defaulter.net> wrote: >>>>>>> On Sat, 13 May 2017 08:35:23 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 May 2017 06:47:01 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 May 2017 10:47:54 +0200, o pere o <me@somewhere.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/05/17 00:42, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 05/10/2017 02:31 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 10 May 2017 09:57:21 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have an automatic opening trash can in the kitchen that runs off of >>>>>>>>>>>>> batteries. I wanna run it with a wall wart. When the lid opens it >>>>>>>>>>>>> draws more power than the 750 mA wall wart I tried using to power it >>>>>>>>>>>>> could deliver. This makes sense. I don't want to use a bigger wall >>>>>>>>>>>>> wart and I don't want to have betteries in it all the time to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>> the current. I'm thinking instead of using a capacitor. If the current >>>>>>>>>>>>> and voltage draw as well as the duration to open the lid is measured >>>>>>>>>>>>> can that not be used to calculate the minimum size capacitor? And if >>>>>>>>>>>>> not excessive maybe a cap that would open the lid three or four times >>>>>>>>>>>>> in a row could be used in place of the 6 AA cells it uses now. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Reasonable? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> A conventional cap, no. Maybe a super expensive supercap. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't want an electronic trash can. All that cheap, badly >>>>>>>>>>>> programmed microprocessor/LCD appliance junk will break in a couple of >>>>>>>>>>>> years, and be annoying meanwhile. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *SIX* AA cells? How long do they last? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A couple of supercaps in series might work fine. For instance, >>>>>>>>>>> SCMT22C505MRBA0 AVX CAPACITOR 5F 20% 5V 0.065ohms $5.23000 in onesies >>>>>>>>>>> from Digikey. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Two of those in series, with a TL431 across each one (set for 4.8V or >>>>>>>>>>> so) to equalize the voltage, plus a charger with about a 50 mA current >>>>>>>>>>> limit ought to work, I should think. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Is there data on leakage or self-discharge of these beasts? The >>>>>>>>>> datasheet just says "low leakage current" and this could just mean >>>>>>>>>> anything... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Pere >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The caps I'm using give the leakage at .16 ma. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/ic_search/super_products_detail.aspx?icpartnumber=700020 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 50.625 watt hours???!!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's magic, or a decimal point slipped 2 places. 1/2 watt I might >>>>>>> believe. >>>>>> >>>>>> more like 3 decimal places, 0.5*C*V*V/3600 >>>>> >>>>> I agree. Did the math and posted as much on 5/14. >>>>> >>>>> I'm thinking they mistakenly used some "one size fits all" or >>>>> watt-hours per X farads. >>>>> >>>>> In a related experiment... I'm temporarily using some Maxwell "D-cell" >>>>> series caps to power the buoy flasher that got 6 months of use from >>>>> 3-AA alkaline cells, switching to a solar charged, 175 F, 3 V system >>>>> (using caps that cost $15 each). That system is flashing the strobe, >>>>> for 8 days on the charge it can get in one day. (cover the solar >>>>> cells with aluminum foil and wait till it dies). >>>>> >>>>> So a pair of the $1.29 50 F caps should easily last a day, or perhaps >>>>> just use one 50 F and go with 2.5V. (specs on the controller that I'm >>>>> using says it works down to 2.2V, and it seems to recover and start >>>>> running it's program from the beginning when the voltage gets to about >>>>> 2V) >>>>> >>>>> The buoy that I'm illuminating belongs to the city.. So I have to keep >>>>> the cost low in case they discover that I've modified the buoy and >>>>> decide to remove my strobe, or vandals (or Visigoths) make it to that >>>>> end of the lake and steal or destroy it... >>>>> >>>>> It's become a "thing" to tweak the buoy with something different each >>>>> year. I go kayaking at 3:30 AM to avoid the summer heat, but it's a >>>>> challenge to find ways to see where I'm going in the dark on a lake >>>>> that's 2 miles long. >>>>> >>>>> Radio beacon? or perhaps a super strobe that I can trigger from 2 >>>>> miles away? >>>> >>>> Tritium light? >>>> >>>> Strontium aluminate paint? >>>> >>>> Both would be fairly short range visibility. For longer range, why not >>>> use GPS? >>> >>> Tried that too. Got a Magellan "waterproof" little hand-held thingee. >>> Cost a small fortune and wasn't waterproof enough to take dunking in >>> water. Since they stopped the extended warranty plan, I stopped >>> taking it kayaking. It was hard to read too... >>> >>> The nice thing about it was when I was on a new creek, I could see my >>> progress. >> >> There are some cool cmos-sensor night vision cams around these days, >> not expensive. We use one to film wildlife in the back yard at night, >> skunks and cats and raccoons and things. But they are not as sensitive >> as a real microchannel multiplier, and mostly not waterpoof. > > I'd love to have a small light waterproof camera to attach to my kite > when kite-yaking. Daylight is good enough for that, I only used the > kite twice in the dark and hundreds of times in daylight. Small and > lightweight are easy enough but waterproof is a whole 'nother thing.I have a Fuji XP-something I bought at Costco. I saw the other day they have a similar model. I haven't tested its waterproof qualities, but it is rated for pretty significant immersion. -- Rick C
Reply by ●May 19, 20172017-05-19
On Friday, May 19, 2017 at 3:18:15 PM UTC-4, default wrote:> On Fri, 19 May 2017 10:03:02 -0700, John Larkin > <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > > >On Fri, 19 May 2017 06:55:25 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> > >wrote: > > > >>On Thu, 18 May 2017 08:43:17 -0700, John Larkin > >><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >> > >>>On Thu, 18 May 2017 07:41:04 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> > >>>wrote: > >>> > >>>>On 18 May 2017 06:00:58 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>>On 2017-05-13, default <default@defaulter.net> wrote: > >>>>>> On Sat, 13 May 2017 08:35:23 -0700, John Larkin > >>>>>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>On Fri, 12 May 2017 06:47:01 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> > >>>>>>>wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>On Fri, 12 May 2017 10:47:54 +0200, o pere o <me@somewhere.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>On 11/05/17 00:42, Phil Hobbs wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> On 05/10/2017 02:31 PM, John Larkin wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 10 May 2017 09:57:21 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I have an automatic opening trash can in the kitchen that runs off of > >>>>>>>>>>>> batteries. I wanna run it with a wall wart. When the lid opens it > >>>>>>>>>>>> draws more power than the 750 mA wall wart I tried using to power it > >>>>>>>>>>>> could deliver. This makes sense. I don't want to use a bigger wall > >>>>>>>>>>>> wart and I don't want to have betteries in it all the time to provide > >>>>>>>>>>>> the current. I'm thinking instead of using a capacitor. If the current > >>>>>>>>>>>> and voltage draw as well as the duration to open the lid is measured > >>>>>>>>>>>> can that not be used to calculate the minimum size capacitor? And if > >>>>>>>>>>>> not excessive maybe a cap that would open the lid three or four times > >>>>>>>>>>>> in a row could be used in place of the 6 AA cells it uses now. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Reasonable? > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>>>>>> Eric > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> A conventional cap, no. Maybe a super expensive supercap. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't want an electronic trash can. All that cheap, badly > >>>>>>>>>>> programmed microprocessor/LCD appliance junk will break in a couple of > >>>>>>>>>>> years, and be annoying meanwhile. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> *SIX* AA cells? How long do they last? > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> A couple of supercaps in series might work fine. For instance, > >>>>>>>>>> SCMT22C505MRBA0 AVX CAPACITOR 5F 20% 5V 0.065ohms $5.23000 in onesies > >>>>>>>>>> from Digikey. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Two of those in series, with a TL431 across each one (set for 4.8V or > >>>>>>>>>> so) to equalize the voltage, plus a charger with about a 50 mA current > >>>>>>>>>> limit ought to work, I should think. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Cheers > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Phil Hobbs > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>Is there data on leakage or self-discharge of these beasts? The > >>>>>>>>>datasheet just says "low leakage current" and this could just mean > >>>>>>>>>anything... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>Pere > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>The caps I'm using give the leakage at .16 ma. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/ic_search/super_products_detail.aspx?icpartnumber=700020 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>50.625 watt hours???!!! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It's magic, or a decimal point slipped 2 places. 1/2 watt I might > >>>>>> believe. > >>>>> > >>>>>more like 3 decimal places, 0.5*C*V*V/3600 > >>>> > >>>>I agree. Did the math and posted as much on 5/14. > >>>> > >>>>I'm thinking they mistakenly used some "one size fits all" or > >>>>watt-hours per X farads. > >>>> > >>>>In a related experiment... I'm temporarily using some Maxwell "D-cell" > >>>>series caps to power the buoy flasher that got 6 months of use from > >>>>3-AA alkaline cells, switching to a solar charged, 175 F, 3 V system > >>>>(using caps that cost $15 each). That system is flashing the strobe, > >>>>for 8 days on the charge it can get in one day. (cover the solar > >>>>cells with aluminum foil and wait till it dies). > >>>> > >>>>So a pair of the $1.29 50 F caps should easily last a day, or perhaps > >>>>just use one 50 F and go with 2.5V. (specs on the controller that I'm > >>>>using says it works down to 2.2V, and it seems to recover and start > >>>>running it's program from the beginning when the voltage gets to about > >>>>2V) > >>>> > >>>>The buoy that I'm illuminating belongs to the city.. So I have to keep > >>>>the cost low in case they discover that I've modified the buoy and > >>>>decide to remove my strobe, or vandals (or Visigoths) make it to that > >>>>end of the lake and steal or destroy it... > >>>> > >>>>It's become a "thing" to tweak the buoy with something different each > >>>>year. I go kayaking at 3:30 AM to avoid the summer heat, but it's a > >>>>challenge to find ways to see where I'm going in the dark on a lake > >>>>that's 2 miles long. > >>>> > >>>>Radio beacon? or perhaps a super strobe that I can trigger from 2 > >>>>miles away? > >>> > >>>Tritium light? > >>> > >>>Strontium aluminate paint? > >>> > >>>Both would be fairly short range visibility. For longer range, why not > >>>use GPS? > >> > >>Tried that too. Got a Magellan "waterproof" little hand-held thingee. > >>Cost a small fortune and wasn't waterproof enough to take dunking in > >>water. Since they stopped the extended warranty plan, I stopped > >>taking it kayaking. It was hard to read too... > >> > >>The nice thing about it was when I was on a new creek, I could see my > >>progress. > > > >There are some cool cmos-sensor night vision cams around these days, > >not expensive. We use one to film wildlife in the back yard at night, > >skunks and cats and raccoons and things. But they are not as sensitive > >as a real microchannel multiplier, and mostly not waterpoof. > > I'd love to have a small light waterproof camera to attach to my kite > when kite-yaking. Daylight is good enough for that, I only used the > kite twice in the dark and hundreds of times in daylight. Small and > lightweight are easy enough but waterproof is a whole 'nother thing.Have you tried GE silicon sealant? The food grade stuff, I've used that to put together glass for aquariums, and also to seal up outdoor electric motors. (I've got a winch on my truck that raises and lowers the snow plow.) George H.
Reply by ●May 20, 20172017-05-20
On Fri, 19 May 2017 16:57:00 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:>On 5/19/2017 4:40 PM, default wrote: >> On Fri, 19 May 2017 12:08:46 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 5/19/2017 6:55 AM, default wrote: >>>> On Thu, 18 May 2017 08:43:17 -0700, John Larkin >>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, 18 May 2017 07:41:04 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 18 May 2017 06:00:58 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2017-05-13, default <default@defaulter.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 May 2017 08:35:23 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 May 2017 06:47:01 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 May 2017 10:47:54 +0200, o pere o <me@somewhere.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/05/17 00:42, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 05/10/2017 02:31 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 10 May 2017 09:57:21 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have an automatic opening trash can in the kitchen that runs off of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> batteries. I wanna run it with a wall wart. When the lid opens it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> draws more power than the 750 mA wall wart I tried using to power it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> could deliver. This makes sense. I don't want to use a bigger wall >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wart and I don't want to have betteries in it all the time to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the current. I'm thinking instead of using a capacitor. If the current >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and voltage draw as well as the duration to open the lid is measured >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can that not be used to calculate the minimum size capacitor? And if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not excessive maybe a cap that would open the lid three or four times >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a row could be used in place of the 6 AA cells it uses now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reasonable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> A conventional cap, no. Maybe a super expensive supercap. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't want an electronic trash can. All that cheap, badly >>>>>>>>>>>>> programmed microprocessor/LCD appliance junk will break in a couple of >>>>>>>>>>>>> years, and be annoying meanwhile. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *SIX* AA cells? How long do they last? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> A couple of supercaps in series might work fine. For instance, >>>>>>>>>>>> SCMT22C505MRBA0 AVX CAPACITOR 5F 20% 5V 0.065ohms $5.23000 in onesies >>>>>>>>>>>> from Digikey. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Two of those in series, with a TL431 across each one (set for 4.8V or >>>>>>>>>>>> so) to equalize the voltage, plus a charger with about a 50 mA current >>>>>>>>>>>> limit ought to work, I should think. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is there data on leakage or self-discharge of these beasts? The >>>>>>>>>>> datasheet just says "low leakage current" and this could just mean >>>>>>>>>>> anything... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Pere >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The caps I'm using give the leakage at .16 ma. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/ic_search/super_products_detail.aspx?icpartnumber=700020 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 50.625 watt hours???!!! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's magic, or a decimal point slipped 2 places. 1/2 watt I might >>>>>>>> believe. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> more like 3 decimal places, 0.5*C*V*V/3600 >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree. Did the math and posted as much on 5/14. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm thinking they mistakenly used some "one size fits all" or >>>>>> watt-hours per X farads. >>>>>> >>>>>> In a related experiment... I'm temporarily using some Maxwell "D-cell" >>>>>> series caps to power the buoy flasher that got 6 months of use from >>>>>> 3-AA alkaline cells, switching to a solar charged, 175 F, 3 V system >>>>>> (using caps that cost $15 each). That system is flashing the strobe, >>>>>> for 8 days on the charge it can get in one day. (cover the solar >>>>>> cells with aluminum foil and wait till it dies). >>>>>> >>>>>> So a pair of the $1.29 50 F caps should easily last a day, or perhaps >>>>>> just use one 50 F and go with 2.5V. (specs on the controller that I'm >>>>>> using says it works down to 2.2V, and it seems to recover and start >>>>>> running it's program from the beginning when the voltage gets to about >>>>>> 2V) >>>>>> >>>>>> The buoy that I'm illuminating belongs to the city.. So I have to keep >>>>>> the cost low in case they discover that I've modified the buoy and >>>>>> decide to remove my strobe, or vandals (or Visigoths) make it to that >>>>>> end of the lake and steal or destroy it... >>>>>> >>>>>> It's become a "thing" to tweak the buoy with something different each >>>>>> year. I go kayaking at 3:30 AM to avoid the summer heat, but it's a >>>>>> challenge to find ways to see where I'm going in the dark on a lake >>>>>> that's 2 miles long. >>>>>> >>>>>> Radio beacon? or perhaps a super strobe that I can trigger from 2 >>>>>> miles away? >>>>> >>>>> Tritium light? >>>>> >>>>> Strontium aluminate paint? >>>>> >>>>> Both would be fairly short range visibility. For longer range, why not >>>>> use GPS? >>>> >>>> Tried that too. Got a Magellan "waterproof" little hand-held thingee. >>>> Cost a small fortune and wasn't waterproof enough to take dunking in >>>> water. Since they stopped the extended warranty plan, I stopped >>>> taking it kayaking. It was hard to read too... >>>> >>>> The nice thing about it was when I was on a new creek, I could see my >>>> progress. >>> >>> They are rated as waterproof, but not very waterproof. I've yet to find >>> one that will survive on the deck of a kayak for more than a season. >>> Sooner or later they leak and crap out. >>> >>> I've never had any trouble seeing where I'm going. Even starlight is >>> enough to navigate. Once the stars are gone you have to know your >>> terrain (aquaine?) pretty well though. Overcast makes for interesting >>> trips though. I take you paddle where there is no illumination from >>> houses and such? Even a single porch light in the distance can provide >>> orientation. >> >> Most days (nearly every day) I paddle to the end of the lake and turn >> around and come back. There are two large bays jutting off the main >> lake and one is nearly as long as the main lake. Add a little fog >> (there have been times where I had no idea where I was) and navigation >> gets interesting. The houses at the end of the lake make spotting the >> buoy difficult for their lights and glare. >> >> It's nice to be able to make a beeline for the buoy, then I'm sure I >> cover the same amount of ground each time, and can time my runs. >> >> It isn't a matter of life or death, or even important that I see the >> buoy. But I got interested in how to best find it in the dark, and >> that's evolved into a fun excuse to tinker with electronics. >> >> Then there's the alligators... It's a big lake and there can only be >> 4-5 gators in it, but on three occasions I managed to surprise >> sleeping gators - against all odds I would think. There's nothing >> quite like paddling into a sleeping gator to get one's adrenaline up. >> And I may know I'm not part of his food chain, but does he know? And >> those things are so near-sighted they just might take me for another >> gator impinging on his territory or mate. > >You mean they are floating at the surface sleeping?Yeah they seem to be floating at the surface and in one particular spot, near someone's deck light. Maybe they are ambush feeders or the light attracts fish? I know they like duck...> >I seriously doubt they mistake you for another gator. I'm no expert, >but they have lots of other senses than sight. I don't know about >gators where you are, but people have been taken out of kayaks in Africa >by crocs. They are smart enough to know the boat is not edible and go >for the chewy center.I'm not sure what is going on with them, but the larger ones do seem interested in kayaks. I would have said the same things; but then I was down at the boat ramp one day talking to the public works supervisor (they have this ultrasonic gizmo that measures the lake level to control the dam gate valves, I was interested in that). He said he thought he was being attacked in his kayak by a gator that entered the lake from the shore as his boat got close to it. I was taking that with a grain of salt, until he whipped out his cell phone and showed me a picture of the gator in the water and the bow of the boat.... up close and personal. But I figure it's like they say about barracuda: "They don't attack humans." But you don't ever want to wear a shiny wristwatch or jewelry while diving where there are 'cuda especially in murky water.
Reply by ●May 20, 20172017-05-20
On Fri, 19 May 2017 16:58:54 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:>On 5/19/2017 3:18 PM, default wrote: >> On Fri, 19 May 2017 10:03:02 -0700, John Larkin >> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 19 May 2017 06:55:25 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 18 May 2017 08:43:17 -0700, John Larkin >>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, 18 May 2017 07:41:04 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 18 May 2017 06:00:58 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2017-05-13, default <default@defaulter.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 May 2017 08:35:23 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 May 2017 06:47:01 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 May 2017 10:47:54 +0200, o pere o <me@somewhere.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/05/17 00:42, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 05/10/2017 02:31 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 10 May 2017 09:57:21 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have an automatic opening trash can in the kitchen that runs off of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> batteries. I wanna run it with a wall wart. When the lid opens it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> draws more power than the 750 mA wall wart I tried using to power it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> could deliver. This makes sense. I don't want to use a bigger wall >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wart and I don't want to have betteries in it all the time to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the current. I'm thinking instead of using a capacitor. If the current >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and voltage draw as well as the duration to open the lid is measured >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can that not be used to calculate the minimum size capacitor? And if >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not excessive maybe a cap that would open the lid three or four times >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a row could be used in place of the 6 AA cells it uses now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reasonable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> A conventional cap, no. Maybe a super expensive supercap. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't want an electronic trash can. All that cheap, badly >>>>>>>>>>>>> programmed microprocessor/LCD appliance junk will break in a couple of >>>>>>>>>>>>> years, and be annoying meanwhile. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *SIX* AA cells? How long do they last? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> A couple of supercaps in series might work fine. For instance, >>>>>>>>>>>> SCMT22C505MRBA0 AVX CAPACITOR 5F 20% 5V 0.065ohms $5.23000 in onesies >>>>>>>>>>>> from Digikey. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Two of those in series, with a TL431 across each one (set for 4.8V or >>>>>>>>>>>> so) to equalize the voltage, plus a charger with about a 50 mA current >>>>>>>>>>>> limit ought to work, I should think. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is there data on leakage or self-discharge of these beasts? The >>>>>>>>>>> datasheet just says "low leakage current" and this could just mean >>>>>>>>>>> anything... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Pere >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The caps I'm using give the leakage at .16 ma. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/ic_search/super_products_detail.aspx?icpartnumber=700020 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 50.625 watt hours???!!! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's magic, or a decimal point slipped 2 places. 1/2 watt I might >>>>>>>> believe. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> more like 3 decimal places, 0.5*C*V*V/3600 >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree. Did the math and posted as much on 5/14. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm thinking they mistakenly used some "one size fits all" or >>>>>> watt-hours per X farads. >>>>>> >>>>>> In a related experiment... I'm temporarily using some Maxwell "D-cell" >>>>>> series caps to power the buoy flasher that got 6 months of use from >>>>>> 3-AA alkaline cells, switching to a solar charged, 175 F, 3 V system >>>>>> (using caps that cost $15 each). That system is flashing the strobe, >>>>>> for 8 days on the charge it can get in one day. (cover the solar >>>>>> cells with aluminum foil and wait till it dies). >>>>>> >>>>>> So a pair of the $1.29 50 F caps should easily last a day, or perhaps >>>>>> just use one 50 F and go with 2.5V. (specs on the controller that I'm >>>>>> using says it works down to 2.2V, and it seems to recover and start >>>>>> running it's program from the beginning when the voltage gets to about >>>>>> 2V) >>>>>> >>>>>> The buoy that I'm illuminating belongs to the city.. So I have to keep >>>>>> the cost low in case they discover that I've modified the buoy and >>>>>> decide to remove my strobe, or vandals (or Visigoths) make it to that >>>>>> end of the lake and steal or destroy it... >>>>>> >>>>>> It's become a "thing" to tweak the buoy with something different each >>>>>> year. I go kayaking at 3:30 AM to avoid the summer heat, but it's a >>>>>> challenge to find ways to see where I'm going in the dark on a lake >>>>>> that's 2 miles long. >>>>>> >>>>>> Radio beacon? or perhaps a super strobe that I can trigger from 2 >>>>>> miles away? >>>>> >>>>> Tritium light? >>>>> >>>>> Strontium aluminate paint? >>>>> >>>>> Both would be fairly short range visibility. For longer range, why not >>>>> use GPS? >>>> >>>> Tried that too. Got a Magellan "waterproof" little hand-held thingee. >>>> Cost a small fortune and wasn't waterproof enough to take dunking in >>>> water. Since they stopped the extended warranty plan, I stopped >>>> taking it kayaking. It was hard to read too... >>>> >>>> The nice thing about it was when I was on a new creek, I could see my >>>> progress. >>> >>> There are some cool cmos-sensor night vision cams around these days, >>> not expensive. We use one to film wildlife in the back yard at night, >>> skunks and cats and raccoons and things. But they are not as sensitive >>> as a real microchannel multiplier, and mostly not waterpoof. >> >> I'd love to have a small light waterproof camera to attach to my kite >> when kite-yaking. Daylight is good enough for that, I only used the >> kite twice in the dark and hundreds of times in daylight. Small and >> lightweight are easy enough but waterproof is a whole 'nother thing. > >I have a Fuji XP-something I bought at Costco. I saw the other day they >have a similar model. I haven't tested its waterproof qualities, but it >is rated for pretty significant immersion.Individually, all the problems are solvable, together it is a different story. The problems I need days with wind in the 8-16 mph range from the NE or SW. Preferably steady with minimum gusting and within a range of arc of ~30 degrees downwind. (that's just to test a new idea) Then there's the matter of pointing the camera without a lot of extra lines and stuff to fool with because launching a kite from a sitting position is tricky enough with three bridle lines, tow line, and four drogue lines. It helps if the kite goes up the first try, because launching a wet kite is harder. (assuming things aren't so twisted and knotted that it still seems possible) Then the boat has to be traveling slower than the wind or the kite may go in the drink and the boat drifts over it. That takes rafting to a buoy or structure, or adding more lines with a sea anchor. The kite sinks and will fly upside down in water too - so there's an extra float attached to the drogue to deal with that. And miracle of miracles it all comes together for a new try - only to discover that there's enough moisture inside the camera housing to create condensate when the top half gets heated by the sun, and the bottom where the lens is, is covered with water droplets. Just launching and flying a kite from a kayak is a challenge. I've made every mistake in the book (if there were a book) and adapted and created, and managed to get it to work when the wind cooperates. Even on the best of days there will be times when I'm busier than the proverbial "one-armed paper hanger." This is a lake with trees around it creating their own brand of turbulence, wind eddies, down drafts, and shielding. Landing the kite can be as challenging as launching, steering the boat so I don't parallel the waves and capsize, pulling in line, keeping the paddles from hitting the water while winding in line, worrying about getting it all together before the kite drifts over a road or power line. The kite has 300 lb line on it and it takes both arms just to pull in one wrap around the winder some days. (I fly 4 kites depending on conditions from a tiny one to a mammoth one) It can be exhilarating when the boat is flying along, but it's scary too. I've only capsized three times and all three times I was using a kite... The boat is pulling you along while you tread water trying to get the kite line in. When the water temp is 40, that adds a whole new dimension to the problem - the initial shock is bad, but after awhile a kind of lassitude takes over and putting on the life jacket just seems like too much hassle. "stay safe, have fun, don't get caught" If it were easy, where would fun be in that?
Reply by ●May 20, 20172017-05-20
On 5/20/2017 6:17 AM, default wrote:> On Fri, 19 May 2017 16:57:00 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 5/19/2017 4:40 PM, default wrote: >>> On Fri, 19 May 2017 12:08:46 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 5/19/2017 6:55 AM, default wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 18 May 2017 08:43:17 -0700, John Larkin >>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, 18 May 2017 07:41:04 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 18 May 2017 06:00:58 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2017-05-13, default <default@defaulter.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 May 2017 08:35:23 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 May 2017 06:47:01 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 May 2017 10:47:54 +0200, o pere o <me@somewhere.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/05/17 00:42, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 05/10/2017 02:31 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 10 May 2017 09:57:21 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have an automatic opening trash can in the kitchen that runs off of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> batteries. I wanna run it with a wall wart. When the lid opens it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> draws more power than the 750 mA wall wart I tried using to power it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could deliver. This makes sense. I don't want to use a bigger wall >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wart and I don't want to have betteries in it all the time to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the current. I'm thinking instead of using a capacitor. If the current >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and voltage draw as well as the duration to open the lid is measured >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can that not be used to calculate the minimum size capacitor? And if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not excessive maybe a cap that would open the lid three or four times >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a row could be used in place of the 6 AA cells it uses now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reasonable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A conventional cap, no. Maybe a super expensive supercap. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't want an electronic trash can. All that cheap, badly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> programmed microprocessor/LCD appliance junk will break in a couple of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> years, and be annoying meanwhile. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *SIX* AA cells? How long do they last? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> A couple of supercaps in series might work fine. For instance, >>>>>>>>>>>>> SCMT22C505MRBA0 AVX CAPACITOR 5F 20% 5V 0.065ohms $5.23000 in onesies >>>>>>>>>>>>> from Digikey. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Two of those in series, with a TL431 across each one (set for 4.8V or >>>>>>>>>>>>> so) to equalize the voltage, plus a charger with about a 50 mA current >>>>>>>>>>>>> limit ought to work, I should think. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Is there data on leakage or self-discharge of these beasts? The >>>>>>>>>>>> datasheet just says "low leakage current" and this could just mean >>>>>>>>>>>> anything... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Pere >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The caps I'm using give the leakage at .16 ma. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/ic_search/super_products_detail.aspx?icpartnumber=700020 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 50.625 watt hours???!!! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It's magic, or a decimal point slipped 2 places. 1/2 watt I might >>>>>>>>> believe. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> more like 3 decimal places, 0.5*C*V*V/3600 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree. Did the math and posted as much on 5/14. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm thinking they mistakenly used some "one size fits all" or >>>>>>> watt-hours per X farads. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In a related experiment... I'm temporarily using some Maxwell "D-cell" >>>>>>> series caps to power the buoy flasher that got 6 months of use from >>>>>>> 3-AA alkaline cells, switching to a solar charged, 175 F, 3 V system >>>>>>> (using caps that cost $15 each). That system is flashing the strobe, >>>>>>> for 8 days on the charge it can get in one day. (cover the solar >>>>>>> cells with aluminum foil and wait till it dies). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So a pair of the $1.29 50 F caps should easily last a day, or perhaps >>>>>>> just use one 50 F and go with 2.5V. (specs on the controller that I'm >>>>>>> using says it works down to 2.2V, and it seems to recover and start >>>>>>> running it's program from the beginning when the voltage gets to about >>>>>>> 2V) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The buoy that I'm illuminating belongs to the city.. So I have to keep >>>>>>> the cost low in case they discover that I've modified the buoy and >>>>>>> decide to remove my strobe, or vandals (or Visigoths) make it to that >>>>>>> end of the lake and steal or destroy it... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's become a "thing" to tweak the buoy with something different each >>>>>>> year. I go kayaking at 3:30 AM to avoid the summer heat, but it's a >>>>>>> challenge to find ways to see where I'm going in the dark on a lake >>>>>>> that's 2 miles long. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Radio beacon? or perhaps a super strobe that I can trigger from 2 >>>>>>> miles away? >>>>>> >>>>>> Tritium light? >>>>>> >>>>>> Strontium aluminate paint? >>>>>> >>>>>> Both would be fairly short range visibility. For longer range, why not >>>>>> use GPS? >>>>> >>>>> Tried that too. Got a Magellan "waterproof" little hand-held thingee. >>>>> Cost a small fortune and wasn't waterproof enough to take dunking in >>>>> water. Since they stopped the extended warranty plan, I stopped >>>>> taking it kayaking. It was hard to read too... >>>>> >>>>> The nice thing about it was when I was on a new creek, I could see my >>>>> progress. >>>> >>>> They are rated as waterproof, but not very waterproof. I've yet to find >>>> one that will survive on the deck of a kayak for more than a season. >>>> Sooner or later they leak and crap out. >>>> >>>> I've never had any trouble seeing where I'm going. Even starlight is >>>> enough to navigate. Once the stars are gone you have to know your >>>> terrain (aquaine?) pretty well though. Overcast makes for interesting >>>> trips though. I take you paddle where there is no illumination from >>>> houses and such? Even a single porch light in the distance can provide >>>> orientation. >>> >>> Most days (nearly every day) I paddle to the end of the lake and turn >>> around and come back. There are two large bays jutting off the main >>> lake and one is nearly as long as the main lake. Add a little fog >>> (there have been times where I had no idea where I was) and navigation >>> gets interesting. The houses at the end of the lake make spotting the >>> buoy difficult for their lights and glare. >>> >>> It's nice to be able to make a beeline for the buoy, then I'm sure I >>> cover the same amount of ground each time, and can time my runs. >>> >>> It isn't a matter of life or death, or even important that I see the >>> buoy. But I got interested in how to best find it in the dark, and >>> that's evolved into a fun excuse to tinker with electronics. >>> >>> Then there's the alligators... It's a big lake and there can only be >>> 4-5 gators in it, but on three occasions I managed to surprise >>> sleeping gators - against all odds I would think. There's nothing >>> quite like paddling into a sleeping gator to get one's adrenaline up. >>> And I may know I'm not part of his food chain, but does he know? And >>> those things are so near-sighted they just might take me for another >>> gator impinging on his territory or mate. >> >> You mean they are floating at the surface sleeping? > > Yeah they seem to be floating at the surface and in one particular > spot, near someone's deck light. Maybe they are ambush feeders or > the light attracts fish? I know they like duck... >> >> I seriously doubt they mistake you for another gator. I'm no expert, >> but they have lots of other senses than sight. I don't know about >> gators where you are, but people have been taken out of kayaks in Africa >> by crocs. They are smart enough to know the boat is not edible and go >> for the chewy center. > > I'm not sure what is going on with them, but the larger ones do seem > interested in kayaks. I would have said the same things; but then I > was down at the boat ramp one day talking to the public works > supervisor (they have this ultrasonic gizmo that measures the lake > level to control the dam gate valves, I was interested in that). He > said he thought he was being attacked in his kayak by a gator that > entered the lake from the shore as his boat got close to it. I was > taking that with a grain of salt, until he whipped out his cell phone > and showed me a picture of the gator in the water and the bow of the > boat.... up close and personal. > > But I figure it's like they say about barracuda: "They don't attack > humans." But you don't ever want to wear a shiny wristwatch or > jewelry while diving where there are 'cuda especially in murky water.I had exactly that experience with a barracuda once. He eventually figured out I wasn't trying to feed him a fish and left. I can't imagine kayaking in gator infested waters. I guess you can go by the reports (or lack thereof) of attacks on kayakers, but you only need to run into one gator who hasn't seen those reports. -- Rick C
Reply by ●May 20, 20172017-05-20
On 5/20/2017 7:22 AM, default wrote:> On Fri, 19 May 2017 16:58:54 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 5/19/2017 3:18 PM, default wrote: >>> On Fri, 19 May 2017 10:03:02 -0700, John Larkin >>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, 19 May 2017 06:55:25 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, 18 May 2017 08:43:17 -0700, John Larkin >>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, 18 May 2017 07:41:04 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 18 May 2017 06:00:58 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2017-05-13, default <default@defaulter.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 May 2017 08:35:23 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 May 2017 06:47:01 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 May 2017 10:47:54 +0200, o pere o <me@somewhere.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/05/17 00:42, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 05/10/2017 02:31 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 10 May 2017 09:57:21 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have an automatic opening trash can in the kitchen that runs off of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> batteries. I wanna run it with a wall wart. When the lid opens it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> draws more power than the 750 mA wall wart I tried using to power it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could deliver. This makes sense. I don't want to use a bigger wall >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wart and I don't want to have betteries in it all the time to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the current. I'm thinking instead of using a capacitor. If the current >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and voltage draw as well as the duration to open the lid is measured >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can that not be used to calculate the minimum size capacitor? And if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not excessive maybe a cap that would open the lid three or four times >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a row could be used in place of the 6 AA cells it uses now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reasonable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A conventional cap, no. Maybe a super expensive supercap. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't want an electronic trash can. All that cheap, badly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> programmed microprocessor/LCD appliance junk will break in a couple of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> years, and be annoying meanwhile. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *SIX* AA cells? How long do they last? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> A couple of supercaps in series might work fine. For instance, >>>>>>>>>>>>> SCMT22C505MRBA0 AVX CAPACITOR 5F 20% 5V 0.065ohms $5.23000 in onesies >>>>>>>>>>>>> from Digikey. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Two of those in series, with a TL431 across each one (set for 4.8V or >>>>>>>>>>>>> so) to equalize the voltage, plus a charger with about a 50 mA current >>>>>>>>>>>>> limit ought to work, I should think. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Is there data on leakage or self-discharge of these beasts? The >>>>>>>>>>>> datasheet just says "low leakage current" and this could just mean >>>>>>>>>>>> anything... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Pere >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The caps I'm using give the leakage at .16 ma. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/ic_search/super_products_detail.aspx?icpartnumber=700020 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 50.625 watt hours???!!! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It's magic, or a decimal point slipped 2 places. 1/2 watt I might >>>>>>>>> believe. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> more like 3 decimal places, 0.5*C*V*V/3600 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree. Did the math and posted as much on 5/14. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm thinking they mistakenly used some "one size fits all" or >>>>>>> watt-hours per X farads. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In a related experiment... I'm temporarily using some Maxwell "D-cell" >>>>>>> series caps to power the buoy flasher that got 6 months of use from >>>>>>> 3-AA alkaline cells, switching to a solar charged, 175 F, 3 V system >>>>>>> (using caps that cost $15 each). That system is flashing the strobe, >>>>>>> for 8 days on the charge it can get in one day. (cover the solar >>>>>>> cells with aluminum foil and wait till it dies). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So a pair of the $1.29 50 F caps should easily last a day, or perhaps >>>>>>> just use one 50 F and go with 2.5V. (specs on the controller that I'm >>>>>>> using says it works down to 2.2V, and it seems to recover and start >>>>>>> running it's program from the beginning when the voltage gets to about >>>>>>> 2V) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The buoy that I'm illuminating belongs to the city.. So I have to keep >>>>>>> the cost low in case they discover that I've modified the buoy and >>>>>>> decide to remove my strobe, or vandals (or Visigoths) make it to that >>>>>>> end of the lake and steal or destroy it... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's become a "thing" to tweak the buoy with something different each >>>>>>> year. I go kayaking at 3:30 AM to avoid the summer heat, but it's a >>>>>>> challenge to find ways to see where I'm going in the dark on a lake >>>>>>> that's 2 miles long. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Radio beacon? or perhaps a super strobe that I can trigger from 2 >>>>>>> miles away? >>>>>> >>>>>> Tritium light? >>>>>> >>>>>> Strontium aluminate paint? >>>>>> >>>>>> Both would be fairly short range visibility. For longer range, why not >>>>>> use GPS? >>>>> >>>>> Tried that too. Got a Magellan "waterproof" little hand-held thingee. >>>>> Cost a small fortune and wasn't waterproof enough to take dunking in >>>>> water. Since they stopped the extended warranty plan, I stopped >>>>> taking it kayaking. It was hard to read too... >>>>> >>>>> The nice thing about it was when I was on a new creek, I could see my >>>>> progress. >>>> >>>> There are some cool cmos-sensor night vision cams around these days, >>>> not expensive. We use one to film wildlife in the back yard at night, >>>> skunks and cats and raccoons and things. But they are not as sensitive >>>> as a real microchannel multiplier, and mostly not waterpoof. >>> >>> I'd love to have a small light waterproof camera to attach to my kite >>> when kite-yaking. Daylight is good enough for that, I only used the >>> kite twice in the dark and hundreds of times in daylight. Small and >>> lightweight are easy enough but waterproof is a whole 'nother thing. >> >> I have a Fuji XP-something I bought at Costco. I saw the other day they >> have a similar model. I haven't tested its waterproof qualities, but it >> is rated for pretty significant immersion. > > Individually, all the problems are solvable, together it is a > different story. > > The problems > > I need days with wind in the 8-16 mph range from the NE or SW. > Preferably steady with minimum gusting and within a range of arc of > ~30 degrees downwind. (that's just to test a new idea) > > Then there's the matter of pointing the camera without a lot of extra > lines and stuff to fool with because launching a kite from a sitting > position is tricky enough with three bridle lines, tow line, and four > drogue lines. > > It helps if the kite goes up the first try, because launching a wet > kite is harder. (assuming things aren't so twisted and knotted that > it still seems possible) > > Then the boat has to be traveling slower than the wind or the kite may > go in the drink and the boat drifts over it. That takes rafting to a > buoy or structure, or adding more lines with a sea anchor. The kite > sinks and will fly upside down in water too - so there's an extra > float attached to the drogue to deal with that. > > And miracle of miracles it all comes together for a new try - only to > discover that there's enough moisture inside the camera housing to > create condensate when the top half gets heated by the sun, and the > bottom where the lens is, is covered with water droplets. > > Just launching and flying a kite from a kayak is a challenge. I've > made every mistake in the book (if there were a book) and adapted and > created, and managed to get it to work when the wind cooperates. Even > on the best of days there will be times when I'm busier than the > proverbial "one-armed paper hanger." > > This is a lake with trees around it creating their own brand of > turbulence, wind eddies, down drafts, and shielding. Landing the kite > can be as challenging as launching, steering the boat so I don't > parallel the waves and capsize, pulling in line, keeping the paddles > from hitting the water while winding in line, worrying about getting > it all together before the kite drifts over a road or power line. The > kite has 300 lb line on it and it takes both arms just to pull in one > wrap around the winder some days. (I fly 4 kites depending on > conditions from a tiny one to a mammoth one) > > It can be exhilarating when the boat is flying along, but it's scary > too. I've only capsized three times and all three times I was using a > kite... The boat is pulling you along while you tread water trying to > get the kite line in. When the water temp is 40, that adds a whole > new dimension to the problem - the initial shock is bad, but after > awhile a kind of lassitude takes over and putting on the life jacket > just seems like too much hassle. "stay safe, have fun, don't get > caught" > > If it were easy, where would fun be in that?You don't wear a life vest? -- Rick C
Reply by ●May 20, 20172017-05-20
On 5/20/2017 7:22 AM, default wrote:> ... When the water temp is 40, ...'Gators live in 40 degree water?
Reply by ●May 20, 20172017-05-20
On Sat, 20 May 2017 11:06:50 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:>On 5/20/2017 7:22 AM, default wrote: >> On Fri, 19 May 2017 16:58:54 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 5/19/2017 3:18 PM, default wrote: >>>> On Fri, 19 May 2017 10:03:02 -0700, John Larkin >>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Fri, 19 May 2017 06:55:25 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, 18 May 2017 08:43:17 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, 18 May 2017 07:41:04 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 18 May 2017 06:00:58 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 2017-05-13, default <default@defaulter.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 May 2017 08:35:23 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 May 2017 06:47:01 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 May 2017 10:47:54 +0200, o pere o <me@somewhere.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/05/17 00:42, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 05/10/2017 02:31 PM, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 10 May 2017 09:57:21 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have an automatic opening trash can in the kitchen that runs off of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> batteries. I wanna run it with a wall wart. When the lid opens it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> draws more power than the 750 mA wall wart I tried using to power it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could deliver. This makes sense. I don't want to use a bigger wall >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wart and I don't want to have betteries in it all the time to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the current. I'm thinking instead of using a capacitor. If the current >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and voltage draw as well as the duration to open the lid is measured >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can that not be used to calculate the minimum size capacitor? And if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not excessive maybe a cap that would open the lid three or four times >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a row could be used in place of the 6 AA cells it uses now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reasonable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A conventional cap, no. Maybe a super expensive supercap. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't want an electronic trash can. All that cheap, badly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> programmed microprocessor/LCD appliance junk will break in a couple of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years, and be annoying meanwhile. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *SIX* AA cells? How long do they last? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A couple of supercaps in series might work fine. For instance, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> SCMT22C505MRBA0 AVX CAPACITOR 5F 20% 5V 0.065ohms $5.23000 in onesies >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Digikey. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Two of those in series, with a TL431 across each one (set for 4.8V or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so) to equalize the voltage, plus a charger with about a 50 mA current >>>>>>>>>>>>>> limit ought to work, I should think. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there data on leakage or self-discharge of these beasts? The >>>>>>>>>>>>> datasheet just says "low leakage current" and this could just mean >>>>>>>>>>>>> anything... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Pere >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The caps I'm using give the leakage at .16 ma. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/ic_search/super_products_detail.aspx?icpartnumber=700020 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 50.625 watt hours???!!! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It's magic, or a decimal point slipped 2 places. 1/2 watt I might >>>>>>>>>> believe. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> more like 3 decimal places, 0.5*C*V*V/3600 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I agree. Did the math and posted as much on 5/14. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm thinking they mistakenly used some "one size fits all" or >>>>>>>> watt-hours per X farads. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In a related experiment... I'm temporarily using some Maxwell "D-cell" >>>>>>>> series caps to power the buoy flasher that got 6 months of use from >>>>>>>> 3-AA alkaline cells, switching to a solar charged, 175 F, 3 V system >>>>>>>> (using caps that cost $15 each). That system is flashing the strobe, >>>>>>>> for 8 days on the charge it can get in one day. (cover the solar >>>>>>>> cells with aluminum foil and wait till it dies). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So a pair of the $1.29 50 F caps should easily last a day, or perhaps >>>>>>>> just use one 50 F and go with 2.5V. (specs on the controller that I'm >>>>>>>> using says it works down to 2.2V, and it seems to recover and start >>>>>>>> running it's program from the beginning when the voltage gets to about >>>>>>>> 2V) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The buoy that I'm illuminating belongs to the city.. So I have to keep >>>>>>>> the cost low in case they discover that I've modified the buoy and >>>>>>>> decide to remove my strobe, or vandals (or Visigoths) make it to that >>>>>>>> end of the lake and steal or destroy it... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's become a "thing" to tweak the buoy with something different each >>>>>>>> year. I go kayaking at 3:30 AM to avoid the summer heat, but it's a >>>>>>>> challenge to find ways to see where I'm going in the dark on a lake >>>>>>>> that's 2 miles long. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Radio beacon? or perhaps a super strobe that I can trigger from 2 >>>>>>>> miles away? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tritium light? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Strontium aluminate paint? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Both would be fairly short range visibility. For longer range, why not >>>>>>> use GPS? >>>>>> >>>>>> Tried that too. Got a Magellan "waterproof" little hand-held thingee. >>>>>> Cost a small fortune and wasn't waterproof enough to take dunking in >>>>>> water. Since they stopped the extended warranty plan, I stopped >>>>>> taking it kayaking. It was hard to read too... >>>>>> >>>>>> The nice thing about it was when I was on a new creek, I could see my >>>>>> progress. >>>>> >>>>> There are some cool cmos-sensor night vision cams around these days, >>>>> not expensive. We use one to film wildlife in the back yard at night, >>>>> skunks and cats and raccoons and things. But they are not as sensitive >>>>> as a real microchannel multiplier, and mostly not waterpoof. >>>> >>>> I'd love to have a small light waterproof camera to attach to my kite >>>> when kite-yaking. Daylight is good enough for that, I only used the >>>> kite twice in the dark and hundreds of times in daylight. Small and >>>> lightweight are easy enough but waterproof is a whole 'nother thing. >>> >>> I have a Fuji XP-something I bought at Costco. I saw the other day they >>> have a similar model. I haven't tested its waterproof qualities, but it >>> is rated for pretty significant immersion. >> >> Individually, all the problems are solvable, together it is a >> different story. >> >> The problems >> >> I need days with wind in the 8-16 mph range from the NE or SW. >> Preferably steady with minimum gusting and within a range of arc of >> ~30 degrees downwind. (that's just to test a new idea) >> >> Then there's the matter of pointing the camera without a lot of extra >> lines and stuff to fool with because launching a kite from a sitting >> position is tricky enough with three bridle lines, tow line, and four >> drogue lines. >> >> It helps if the kite goes up the first try, because launching a wet >> kite is harder. (assuming things aren't so twisted and knotted that >> it still seems possible) >> >> Then the boat has to be traveling slower than the wind or the kite may >> go in the drink and the boat drifts over it. That takes rafting to a >> buoy or structure, or adding more lines with a sea anchor. The kite >> sinks and will fly upside down in water too - so there's an extra >> float attached to the drogue to deal with that. >> >> And miracle of miracles it all comes together for a new try - only to >> discover that there's enough moisture inside the camera housing to >> create condensate when the top half gets heated by the sun, and the >> bottom where the lens is, is covered with water droplets. >> >> Just launching and flying a kite from a kayak is a challenge. I've >> made every mistake in the book (if there were a book) and adapted and >> created, and managed to get it to work when the wind cooperates. Even >> on the best of days there will be times when I'm busier than the >> proverbial "one-armed paper hanger." >> >> This is a lake with trees around it creating their own brand of >> turbulence, wind eddies, down drafts, and shielding. Landing the kite >> can be as challenging as launching, steering the boat so I don't >> parallel the waves and capsize, pulling in line, keeping the paddles >> from hitting the water while winding in line, worrying about getting >> it all together before the kite drifts over a road or power line. The >> kite has 300 lb line on it and it takes both arms just to pull in one >> wrap around the winder some days. (I fly 4 kites depending on >> conditions from a tiny one to a mammoth one) >> >> It can be exhilarating when the boat is flying along, but it's scary >> too. I've only capsized three times and all three times I was using a >> kite... The boat is pulling you along while you tread water trying to >> get the kite line in. When the water temp is 40, that adds a whole >> new dimension to the problem - the initial shock is bad, but after >> awhile a kind of lassitude takes over and putting on the life jacket >> just seems like too much hassle. "stay safe, have fun, don't get >> caught" >> >> If it were easy, where would fun be in that? > >You don't wear a life vest?No, too restrictive. A mini-vest with CO2 cartridge might be a good idea, especially in the intra coastal water way or around the inlets. No trees so it's excellent for a kite, but the river traffic is a hassle.
Reply by ●May 20, 20172017-05-20
On Sat, 20 May 2017 12:51:56 -0400, Bob Engelhardt <BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:>On 5/20/2017 7:22 AM, default wrote: >> ... When the water temp is 40, ... > >'Gators live in 40 degree water?They endure 40 degree water. I go kayaking year round. They are only a bother during the hottest summer weather - the air temp will be 75-79 at 4 AM, RH ~70% (pretty miserable IMO) and the lake feels warmer, that's when they sleep on the surface, and active during the day. Climate change is perceptible these days; our planting zone has moved down 2 full steps (that thing on seed packets...) Several species of lizard that should be at the northernmost range of their territory 150 miles south of us are now very common - all in the last 20 years or so. Alligators are another thing we are adapting to. They've been around for years they are just bigger and moving inland now.
