On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:50:23 +0200, jeroen <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:>On 2023-07-20 02:38, Eddy Lee wrote: >[...] >> >> My relays draw 80mA @ 24V, or close to 2W to hold. A 3.7V to 24V >> booster can only start two of them at the same time. I might need >> bigger booster, unless I can sequence the starting. >> > >What do you think the current vs. time curve of a relay pulling in >looks like? It's probably not what you think. > >Jeroen BellemanProbably weird. Do you have any waveforms? The flyback voltage should be strange too.
Diodes, Inc
Started by ●July 19, 2023
Reply by ●July 20, 20232023-07-20
Reply by ●July 20, 20232023-07-20
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:54:02 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:>torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 02.53.23 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >> >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee >> >> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs >> >> >> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a >> >> >> >> spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does >> >> >> >> a lot more now. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I'd >> >> >> >> like to use. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping >> >> >> >> parts in production? Any horror stories? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >We�ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for >> >> >> >good or ill. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Their TLV431 is better than TI�s original, and much much better than the >> >> >> >onsemi version. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI�s. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Haven�t used any of their switcher parts. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Cheers >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Phil Hobbs >> >> >> That switcher looks fabulous. I'm designing a board with maybe 125 >> >> >> 12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about >> >> >> no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old >> >> >> LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic. >> >> > >> >> >How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils. >> >> Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect? >> >> >> >> One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while >> >> whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the >> >> guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will >> >> only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so >> >> that's not worth the hassle here. >> >> >> >> I'm thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers. >> > >> >this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595 >> We use that part in some other places. But it's physically big and >> they would actually cost a tad more than the fpga+uln drivers. I can >> squeeze the ULN2003s on the bottom, between the relay pins. >> >> Diodes Inc does the ULN2003 too. >> >> A single mosfet under each relay would be cool, but I'd need a catch >> diode or an avalanche-rated part. > >https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/SSM3K357RLF?qs=F5EMLAvA7ICLn4Y138U4bA%3D%3D&_gl=1*1l31jut*_ga*MjE3OTg0NTgyLjE2Njg0NDMwOTE.*_ga_15W4STQT4T*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4yOS4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuMC4wLjA.*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4xNy4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuNDUuMC4wIt avalanches but they don't specify the voltage!
Reply by ●July 20, 20232023-07-20
torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 16.44.27 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:54:02 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > > >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 02.53.23 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: > >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > >> > >> >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: > >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > >> >> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs > >> >> >> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a > >> >> >> >> spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does > >> >> >> >> a lot more now. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I'd > >> >> >> >> like to use. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping > >> >> >> >> parts in production? Any horror stories? > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >We’ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for > >> >> >> >good or ill. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Their TLV431 is better than TI’s original, and much much better than the > >> >> >> >onsemi version. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI’s. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Haven’t used any of their switcher parts. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Cheers > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Phil Hobbs > >> >> >> That switcher looks fabulous. I'm designing a board with maybe 125 > >> >> >> 12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about > >> >> >> no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old > >> >> >> LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic. > >> >> > > >> >> >How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils. > >> >> Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect? > >> >> > >> >> One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while > >> >> whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the > >> >> guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will > >> >> only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so > >> >> that's not worth the hassle here. > >> >> > >> >> I'm thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers. > >> > > >> >this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595 > >> We use that part in some other places. But it's physically big and > >> they would actually cost a tad more than the fpga+uln drivers. I can > >> squeeze the ULN2003s on the bottom, between the relay pins. > >> > >> Diodes Inc does the ULN2003 too. > >> > >> A single mosfet under each relay would be cool, but I'd need a catch > >> diode or an avalanche-rated part. > > > >https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/SSM3K357RLF?qs=F5EMLAvA7ICLn4Y138U4bA%3D%3D&_gl=1*1l31jut*_ga*MjE3OTg0NTgyLjE2Njg0NDMwOTE.*_ga_15W4STQT4T*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4yOS4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuMC4wLjA.*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4xNy4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuNDUuMC4w > It avalanches but they don't specify the voltage!the drain-gate zener makes it shunt so one would assume it does that at ~60V and avalanche never happens
Reply by ●July 20, 20232023-07-20
torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 16.29.37 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:50:23 +0200, jeroen <jer...@nospam.please> > wrote: > >On 2023-07-20 02:38, Eddy Lee wrote: > >[...] > >> > >> My relays draw 80mA @ 24V, or close to 2W to hold. A 3.7V to 24V > >> booster can only start two of them at the same time. I might need > >> bigger booster, unless I can sequence the starting. > >> > > > >What do you think the current vs. time curve of a relay pulling in > >looks like? It's probably not what you think. > > > >Jeroen Belleman > Probably weird. Do you have any waveforms? > > The flyback voltage should be strange too.https://www.ia.omron.com/support/guide/36/img/generalry_tg_expla_22.gif
Reply by ●July 20, 20232023-07-20
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:03:38 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 17:38:33 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > >On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 4:16:45?PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: > >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > >> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: > >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs > >> >> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: > >> >> >> Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a > >> >> >> spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does > >> >> >> a lot more now. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I'd > >> >> >> like to use. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping > >> >> >> parts in production? Any horror stories? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> >We’ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for > >> >> >good or ill. > >> >> > > >> >> >Their TLV431 is better than TI’s original, and much much better than the > >> >> >onsemi version. > >> >> > > >> >> >Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI’s. > >> >> > > >> >> >Haven’t used any of their switcher parts. > >> >> > > >> >> >Cheers > >> >> > > >> >> >Phil Hobbs > >> >> That switcher looks fabulous. I'm designing a board with maybe 125 > >> >> 12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about > >> >> no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old > >> >> LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic. > >> > > >> >How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils. > >> Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect? > >> > >> One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while > >> whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the > >> guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will > >> only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so > >> that's not worth the hassle here. > >> > >> I'm thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers. > > > >My relays draw 80mA @ 24V, or close to 2W to hold. A 3.7V to 24V booster can only start two of them at the same time. I might need bigger booster, unless I can sequence the starting. > OK, 2 watts per coil, 10x mine. And I have a kilowatt of +48 supply > available. > > 48v relays would be great, but the 12 volt ones are a lot easier to > get. Automotive stuff.24V coil relays are more common, especially for heavy duty one. Mine is 30A DC28V contact. I am now using a 250W 12V to 24V inverter to activate 4 relays.
Reply by ●July 20, 20232023-07-20
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 09:02:15 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:>torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 16.44.27 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:54:02 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >> >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 02.53.23 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >> >> >> >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >> >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee >> >> >> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs >> >> >> >> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a >> >> >> >> >> spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does >> >> >> >> >> a lot more now. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I'd >> >> >> >> >> like to use. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping >> >> >> >> >> parts in production? Any horror stories? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >We�ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for >> >> >> >> >good or ill. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >Their TLV431 is better than TI�s original, and much much better than the >> >> >> >> >onsemi version. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI�s. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >Haven�t used any of their switcher parts. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >Cheers >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >Phil Hobbs >> >> >> >> That switcher looks fabulous. I'm designing a board with maybe 125 >> >> >> >> 12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about >> >> >> >> no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old >> >> >> >> LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils. >> >> >> Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect? >> >> >> >> >> >> One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while >> >> >> whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the >> >> >> guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will >> >> >> only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so >> >> >> that's not worth the hassle here. >> >> >> >> >> >> I'm thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers. >> >> > >> >> >this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595 >> >> We use that part in some other places. But it's physically big and >> >> they would actually cost a tad more than the fpga+uln drivers. I can >> >> squeeze the ULN2003s on the bottom, between the relay pins. >> >> >> >> Diodes Inc does the ULN2003 too. >> >> >> >> A single mosfet under each relay would be cool, but I'd need a catch >> >> diode or an avalanche-rated part. >> > >> >https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/SSM3K357RLF?qs=F5EMLAvA7ICLn4Y138U4bA%3D%3D&_gl=1*1l31jut*_ga*MjE3OTg0NTgyLjE2Njg0NDMwOTE.*_ga_15W4STQT4T*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4yOS4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuMC4wLjA.*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4xNy4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuNDUuMC4w >> It avalanches but they don't specify the voltage! > >the drain-gate zener makes it shunt so one would assume it does that at ~60V and avalanche never happensAbs max is 60 volts, without a clue what that zener clamps at. Same as avalanche-rated fets, no hint of the actual clamp voltage. Grrrr.
Reply by ●July 20, 20232023-07-20
torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 19.51.24 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 09:02:15 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > > >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 16.44.27 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: > >> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:54:02 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > >> > >> >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 02.53.23 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: > >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > >> >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: > >> >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > >> >> >> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs > >> >> >> >> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a > >> >> >> >> >> spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does > >> >> >> >> >> a lot more now. > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I'd > >> >> >> >> >> like to use. > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping > >> >> >> >> >> parts in production? Any horror stories? > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >We’ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for > >> >> >> >> >good or ill. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >Their TLV431 is better than TI’s original, and much much better than the > >> >> >> >> >onsemi version. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI’s. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >Haven’t used any of their switcher parts. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >Cheers > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >Phil Hobbs > >> >> >> >> That switcher looks fabulous. I'm designing a board with maybe 125 > >> >> >> >> 12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about > >> >> >> >> no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old > >> >> >> >> LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils. > >> >> >> Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while > >> >> >> whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the > >> >> >> guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will > >> >> >> only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so > >> >> >> that's not worth the hassle here. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I'm thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers. > >> >> > > >> >> >this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595 > >> >> We use that part in some other places. But it's physically big and > >> >> they would actually cost a tad more than the fpga+uln drivers. I can > >> >> squeeze the ULN2003s on the bottom, between the relay pins. > >> >> > >> >> Diodes Inc does the ULN2003 too. > >> >> > >> >> A single mosfet under each relay would be cool, but I'd need a catch > >> >> diode or an avalanche-rated part. > >> > > >> >https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/SSM3K357RLF?qs=F5EMLAvA7ICLn4Y138U4bA%3D%3D&_gl=1*1l31jut*_ga*MjE3OTg0NTgyLjE2Njg0NDMwOTE.*_ga_15W4STQT4T*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4yOS4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuMC4wLjA.*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4xNy4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuNDUuMC4w > >> It avalanches but they don't specify the voltage! > > > >the drain-gate zener makes it shunt so one would assume it does that at ~60V and avalanche never happens > Abs max is 60 volts, without a clue what that zener clamps at. > > Same as avalanche-rated fets, no hint of the actual clamp voltage. > Grrrr.https://www.diodes.com/assets/Articles/Automotive-MOSFETs.pdf page 2
Reply by ●July 20, 20232023-07-20
On 2023-07-20 16:29, John Larkin wrote:> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:50:23 +0200, jeroen <jeroen@nospam.please> > wrote: > >> On 2023-07-20 02:38, Eddy Lee wrote: >> [...] >>> >>> My relays draw 80mA @ 24V, or close to 2W to hold. A 3.7V to 24V >>> booster can only start two of them at the same time. I might need >>> bigger booster, unless I can sequence the starting. >>> >> >> What do you think the current vs. time curve of a relay pulling in >> looks like? It's probably not what you think. >> >> Jeroen Belleman > > Probably weird. Do you have any waveforms? > > The flyback voltage should be strange too. >Aussit�t dit, aussit�t fait. I measured this on a clunky ERNI REL20 relay from my junk box. When the armature moves, the coil current actually briefly drops. See <http://cern.ch/jeroen/tmp/relay.html>. I also tried one of these tiny Omron G6K relays, but did not see a momentary current drop there. I may have to take another look, because the trace was quite noisy. Jeroen Belleman
Reply by ●July 20, 20232023-07-20
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:01:35 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:>torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 19.51.24 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 09:02:15 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >> >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 16.44.27 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >> >> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:54:02 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >> >> >> >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 02.53.23 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >> >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> >> >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >> >> >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee >> >> >> >> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs >> >> >> >> >> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a >> >> >> >> >> >> spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does >> >> >> >> >> >> a lot more now. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I'd >> >> >> >> >> >> like to use. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping >> >> >> >> >> >> parts in production? Any horror stories? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >We�ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for >> >> >> >> >> >good or ill. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >Their TLV431 is better than TI�s original, and much much better than the >> >> >> >> >> >onsemi version. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI�s. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >Haven�t used any of their switcher parts. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >Cheers >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >Phil Hobbs >> >> >> >> >> That switcher looks fabulous. I'm designing a board with maybe 125 >> >> >> >> >> 12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about >> >> >> >> >> no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old >> >> >> >> >> LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils. >> >> >> >> Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while >> >> >> >> whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the >> >> >> >> guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will >> >> >> >> only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so >> >> >> >> that's not worth the hassle here. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I'm thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595 >> >> >> We use that part in some other places. But it's physically big and >> >> >> they would actually cost a tad more than the fpga+uln drivers. I can >> >> >> squeeze the ULN2003s on the bottom, between the relay pins. >> >> >> >> >> >> Diodes Inc does the ULN2003 too. >> >> >> >> >> >> A single mosfet under each relay would be cool, but I'd need a catch >> >> >> diode or an avalanche-rated part. >> >> > >> >> >https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/SSM3K357RLF?qs=F5EMLAvA7ICLn4Y138U4bA%3D%3D&_gl=1*1l31jut*_ga*MjE3OTg0NTgyLjE2Njg0NDMwOTE.*_ga_15W4STQT4T*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4yOS4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuMC4wLjA.*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4xNy4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuNDUuMC4w >> >> It avalanches but they don't specify the voltage! >> > >> >the drain-gate zener makes it shunt so one would assume it does that at ~60V and avalanche never happens >> Abs max is 60 volts, without a clue what that zener clamps at. >> >> Same as avalanche-rated fets, no hint of the actual clamp voltage. >> Grrrr. > >https://www.diodes.com/assets/Articles/Automotive-MOSFETs.pdf > >page 2 > >Lots of words, no numbers.
Reply by ●July 20, 20232023-07-20
torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 22.57.57 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:01:35 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > > >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 19.51.24 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: > >> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 09:02:15 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > >> > >> >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 16.44.27 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: > >> >> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:54:02 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > >> >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 02.53.23 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: > >> >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > >> >> >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: > >> >> >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > >> >> >> >> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs > >> >> >> >> >> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a > >> >> >> >> >> >> spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does > >> >> >> >> >> >> a lot more now. > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I'd > >> >> >> >> >> >> like to use. > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping > >> >> >> >> >> >> parts in production? Any horror stories? > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >We’ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for > >> >> >> >> >> >good or ill. > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >Their TLV431 is better than TI’s original, and much much better than the > >> >> >> >> >> >onsemi version. > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI’s. > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >Haven’t used any of their switcher parts. > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >Cheers > >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >Phil Hobbs > >> >> >> >> >> That switcher looks fabulous. I'm designing a board with maybe 125 > >> >> >> >> >> 12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about > >> >> >> >> >> no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old > >> >> >> >> >> LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils. > >> >> >> >> Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect? > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while > >> >> >> >> whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the > >> >> >> >> guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will > >> >> >> >> only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so > >> >> >> >> that's not worth the hassle here. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> I'm thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595 > >> >> >> We use that part in some other places. But it's physically big and > >> >> >> they would actually cost a tad more than the fpga+uln drivers. I can > >> >> >> squeeze the ULN2003s on the bottom, between the relay pins. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Diodes Inc does the ULN2003 too. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> A single mosfet under each relay would be cool, but I'd need a catch > >> >> >> diode or an avalanche-rated part. > >> >> > > >> >> >https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/SSM3K357RLF?qs=F5EMLAvA7ICLn4Y138U4bA%3D%3D&_gl=1*1l31jut*_ga*MjE3OTg0NTgyLjE2Njg0NDMwOTE.*_ga_15W4STQT4T*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4yOS4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuMC4wLjA.*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4xNy4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuNDUuMC4w > >> >> It avalanches but they don't specify the voltage! > >> > > >> >the drain-gate zener makes it shunt so one would assume it does that at ~60V and avalanche never happens > >> Abs max is 60 volts, without a clue what that zener clamps at. > >> > >> Same as avalanche-rated fets, no hint of the actual clamp voltage. > >> Grrrr. > > > >https://www.diodes.com/assets/Articles/Automotive-MOSFETs.pdf > > > >page 2 > > > > > Lots of words, no numbers.atleast 60 and less than the mosfets avalance voltage ..
