On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 14:02:33 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:>On 7/19/23 9:07 AM, John Larkin wrote: >> Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a >> spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does >> a lot more now. >> >> Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I'd >> like to use. >> > >They do make good parts and, most of all, at good prices. > > >> Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping >> parts in production? Any horror stories? >> > >Yep, one. I designed a specialty circuit around their AP63200. Worked >beautifully until ... the AP63200 became hardcore unobtanium. Many >manufacturers had such supply chain problems though so I am not going to >diss them for that. Heck, for a while you couldn't even get toilet paper >around here. > >Subsequently I did the usual, designed it back out and made the whole >circuit jelly-bean and discretes so there would no longer be much of a >supply chain risk. Now this client has two designs, a fancy nice one and >a more mundane fallback version if things hit the fan. A good insurance >policy on their part. > >Long story, over the last few years I really got weaned off super nice >parts and rather go a more classic route with less supply chain risk.I could plop a few pcb test points around the part. If I can't get it, I could make a little baby board regulator and stand it off the main board on a few wires. The supply situation is less crazy now, and some people have garages full of toilet paper.
Diodes, Inc
Started by ●July 19, 2023
Reply by ●July 19, 20232023-07-19
Reply by ●July 19, 20232023-07-19
torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > >On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: > >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs > >> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> > >> >John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: > >> >> Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a > >> >> spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does > >> >> a lot more now. > >> >> > >> >> Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I'd > >> >> like to use. > >> >> > >> >> Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping > >> >> parts in production? Any horror stories? > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> >We’ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for > >> >good or ill. > >> > > >> >Their TLV431 is better than TI’s original, and much much better than the > >> >onsemi version. > >> > > >> >Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI’s. > >> > > >> >Haven’t used any of their switcher parts. > >> > > >> >Cheers > >> > > >> >Phil Hobbs > >> That switcher looks fabulous. I'm designing a board with maybe 125 > >> 12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about > >> no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old > >> LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic. > > > >How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils. > Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect? > > One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while > whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the > guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will > only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so > that's not worth the hassle here. > > I'm thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers.this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595
Reply by ●July 19, 20232023-07-19
On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 4:16:45 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > >On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: > >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs > >> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> > >> >John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: > >> >> Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a > >> >> spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does > >> >> a lot more now. > >> >> > >> >> Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I'd > >> >> like to use. > >> >> > >> >> Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping > >> >> parts in production? Any horror stories? > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> >We’ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for > >> >good or ill. > >> > > >> >Their TLV431 is better than TI’s original, and much much better than the > >> >onsemi version. > >> > > >> >Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI’s. > >> > > >> >Haven’t used any of their switcher parts. > >> > > >> >Cheers > >> > > >> >Phil Hobbs > >> That switcher looks fabulous. I'm designing a board with maybe 125 > >> 12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about > >> no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old > >> LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic. > > > >How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils. > Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect? > > One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while > whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the > guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will > only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so > that's not worth the hassle here. > > I'm thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers.My relays draw 80mA @ 24V, or close to 2W to hold. A 3.7V to 24V booster can only start two of them at the same time. I might need bigger booster, unless I can sequence the starting.
Reply by ●July 19, 20232023-07-19
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:>torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee >> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs >> >> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: >> >> >> Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a >> >> >> spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does >> >> >> a lot more now. >> >> >> >> >> >> Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I'd >> >> >> like to use. >> >> >> >> >> >> Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping >> >> >> parts in production? Any horror stories? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >We�ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for >> >> >good or ill. >> >> > >> >> >Their TLV431 is better than TI�s original, and much much better than the >> >> >onsemi version. >> >> > >> >> >Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI�s. >> >> > >> >> >Haven�t used any of their switcher parts. >> >> > >> >> >Cheers >> >> > >> >> >Phil Hobbs >> >> That switcher looks fabulous. I'm designing a board with maybe 125 >> >> 12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about >> >> no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old >> >> LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic. >> > >> >How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils. >> Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect? >> >> One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while >> whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the >> guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will >> only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so >> that's not worth the hassle here. >> >> I'm thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers. > >this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595We use that part in some other places. But it's physically big and they would actually cost a tad more than the fpga+uln drivers. I can squeeze the ULN2003s on the bottom, between the relay pins. Diodes Inc does the ULN2003 too. A single mosfet under each relay would be cool, but I'd need a catch diode or an avalanche-rated part.
Reply by ●July 19, 20232023-07-19
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 17:38:33 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee <eddy711lee@gmail.com> wrote:>On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 4:16:45?PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee >> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs >> >> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: >> >> >> Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a >> >> >> spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does >> >> >> a lot more now. >> >> >> >> >> >> Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I'd >> >> >> like to use. >> >> >> >> >> >> Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping >> >> >> parts in production? Any horror stories? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >We�ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for >> >> >good or ill. >> >> > >> >> >Their TLV431 is better than TI�s original, and much much better than the >> >> >onsemi version. >> >> > >> >> >Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI�s. >> >> > >> >> >Haven�t used any of their switcher parts. >> >> > >> >> >Cheers >> >> > >> >> >Phil Hobbs >> >> That switcher looks fabulous. I'm designing a board with maybe 125 >> >> 12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about >> >> no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old >> >> LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic. >> > >> >How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils. >> Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect? >> >> One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while >> whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the >> guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will >> only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so >> that's not worth the hassle here. >> >> I'm thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers. > >My relays draw 80mA @ 24V, or close to 2W to hold. A 3.7V to 24V booster can only start two of them at the same time. I might need bigger booster, unless I can sequence the starting.OK, 2 watts per coil, 10x mine. And I have a kilowatt of +48 supply available. 48v relays would be great, but the 12 volt ones are a lot easier to get. Automotive stuff.
Reply by ●July 20, 20232023-07-20
torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 02.53.23 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > > >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: > >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee > >> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: > >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs > >> >> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: > >> >> >> Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a > >> >> >> spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does > >> >> >> a lot more now. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I'd > >> >> >> like to use. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping > >> >> >> parts in production? Any horror stories? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> >We’ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for > >> >> >good or ill. > >> >> > > >> >> >Their TLV431 is better than TI’s original, and much much better than the > >> >> >onsemi version. > >> >> > > >> >> >Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI’s. > >> >> > > >> >> >Haven’t used any of their switcher parts. > >> >> > > >> >> >Cheers > >> >> > > >> >> >Phil Hobbs > >> >> That switcher looks fabulous. I'm designing a board with maybe 125 > >> >> 12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about > >> >> no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old > >> >> LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic. > >> > > >> >How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils. > >> Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect? > >> > >> One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while > >> whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the > >> guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will > >> only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so > >> that's not worth the hassle here. > >> > >> I'm thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers. > > > >this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595 > We use that part in some other places. But it's physically big and > they would actually cost a tad more than the fpga+uln drivers. I can > squeeze the ULN2003s on the bottom, between the relay pins. > > Diodes Inc does the ULN2003 too. > > A single mosfet under each relay would be cool, but I'd need a catch > diode or an avalanche-rated part.https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/SSM3K357RLF?qs=F5EMLAvA7ICLn4Y138U4bA%3D%3D&_gl=1*1l31jut*_ga*MjE3OTg0NTgyLjE2Njg0NDMwOTE.*_ga_15W4STQT4T*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4yOS4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuMC4wLjA.*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4xNy4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuNDUuMC4w
Reply by ●July 20, 20232023-07-20
On 2023-07-20 02:38, Eddy Lee wrote: [...]> > My relays draw 80mA @ 24V, or close to 2W to hold. A 3.7V to 24V > booster can only start two of them at the same time. I might need > bigger booster, unless I can sequence the starting. >What do you think the current vs. time curve of a relay pulling in looks like? It's probably not what you think. Jeroen Belleman
Reply by ●July 20, 20232023-07-20
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:50:32 AM UTC-7, jeroen wrote:> On 2023-07-20 02:38, Eddy Lee wrote: > [...] > > > > My relays draw 80mA @ 24V, or close to 2W to hold. A 3.7V to 24V > > booster can only start two of them at the same time. I might need > > bigger booster, unless I can sequence the starting. > > > What do you think the current vs. time curve of a relay pulling in > looks like? It's probably not what you think.The inverter can handle 3A (I assume it's input current) or 25W. The relay draws 600mA @ 3.7V input and 80mA @24V output. It should be able to hold 5 relays, but only able to start 2.
Reply by ●July 20, 20232023-07-20
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 7:00:16 AM UTC-7, Eddy Lee wrote:> On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 3:50:32 AM UTC-7, jeroen wrote: > > On 2023-07-20 02:38, Eddy Lee wrote: > > [...] > > > > > > My relays draw 80mA @ 24V, or close to 2W to hold. A 3.7V to 24V > > > booster can only start two of them at the same time. I might need > > > bigger booster, unless I can sequence the starting. > > > > > What do you think the current vs. time curve of a relay pulling in > > looks like? It's probably not what you think.Correction:> The inverter can handle 3A (I assume it's input current) or 25W. > The inverter draws 600mA @ 3.7V input and 80mA @24V output. > It should be able to hold 5 relays, but only able to start 2.
Reply by ●July 20, 20232023-07-20
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 02:54:02 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:>torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 02.53.23 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >> >torsdag den 20. juli 2023 kl. 01.16.45 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin: >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee >> >> <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:08:24?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 16:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs >> >> >> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> Diodes is lately a lot more than diodes. A similar case is Onsemi, a >> >> >> >> spinoff of Motorola that inherited the cheap gumdrop business but does >> >> >> >> a lot more now. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Diodes has some dynamite new switchers, the AP66200 parts, that I'd >> >> >> >> like to use. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Any experience with Diodes, as regards support and especially keeping >> >> >> >> parts in production? Any horror stories? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >We�ve had good luck with them. Some of their analog parts are odd, both for >> >> >> >good or ill. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Their TLV431 is better than TI�s original, and much much better than the >> >> >> >onsemi version. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Their TLC271 is, like, 30 dB noisier than TI�s. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Haven�t used any of their switcher parts. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Cheers >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Phil Hobbs >> >> >> That switcher looks fabulous. I'm designing a board with maybe 125 >> >> >> 12-volt-coil relays and I have to switch +48 down to 12 and have about >> >> >> no room to do it in. HV-input switchers are rare. I like the old >> >> >> LM2576HV-ADJ but it, and its inductor and caps, are gigantic. >> >> > >> >> >How many of them are switched on at the same time? How do you deal with the initial surge? I am looking for a way to have a short delay to sequence on 24V relay coils. >> >> Rough guess, maybe 50 max on at once. What surge do you expect? >> >> >> >> One trick is to bump up the coil bus voltage to 12 for a while >> >> whenever any relay state is changed, and drop it down to the >> >> guaranteed holding voltage after a short while. But my relays will >> >> only need maybe 200 mW coil power each, under an amp for all 50 on, so >> >> that's not worth the hassle here. >> >> >> >> I'm thinking of using an Efinix FPGA and ULN2003s as the coil drivers. >> > >> >this would save routing, https://www.ti.com/product/TPIC6B595 >> We use that part in some other places. But it's physically big and >> they would actually cost a tad more than the fpga+uln drivers. I can >> squeeze the ULN2003s on the bottom, between the relay pins. >> >> Diodes Inc does the ULN2003 too. >> >> A single mosfet under each relay would be cool, but I'd need a catch >> diode or an avalanche-rated part. > >https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/SSM3K357RLF?qs=F5EMLAvA7ICLn4Y138U4bA%3D%3D&_gl=1*1l31jut*_ga*MjE3OTg0NTgyLjE2Njg0NDMwOTE.*_ga_15W4STQT4T*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4yOS4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuMC4wLjA.*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*MTY4OTg0NjM4MC4xNy4xLjE2ODk4NDYzOTUuNDUuMC4wThat's wonderful. The distributor search engines don't show avalanche as a feature so I've been opening and reading scores of PDF data sheets. I need a components reasearch engineer; I spend too much time prowling for parts. We could do a dual footprint, or just put two fets under each relay, so we could buy that package or a SOT-23. Another idea is to use a high-voltage fet and ensure that the flyback spike never hits the breakdown voltage. Relay coils are not very high-Q inductors.
