On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 5:16:00 PM UTC-5, Ricky wrote:> On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 3:41:59 PM UTC-5, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 12:03:50 PM UTC-5, Ricky wrote: > > > On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 6:04:05 AM UTC-5, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 2:34:34 AM UTC-5, Ricky wrote: > > > > > On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 9:15:53 PM UTC-5, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > > > On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:20:08 PM UTC-5, sonnic...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A standard comparator f.x LM393, LM2903 etc commonly have a open-collector output. > > > > > > > Does the group know about comparators with driver output, hence can pull up and down, and output like an ordinary opamp? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do I search for such ones? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > An ordinary opamp does not fit my need, as my application could balance itself > > > > > > You could use an op amp to buffer the LM393 OC output. Two cheap parts are still cheap. The super fast comparators mentioned are all very fussy about layout and have self-oscillation problems if you're not careful about every little thing. > > > > > No part is cheap if it takes up space on a crowded board. > > > > > > > > > > Many Greenpak devices have comparators in them, but few have opamps. > > > > I just want to say I am so thankful to have you around to set me straight. Well, my word, what could I do without you. > > > > > > > > WTF you think a part like this just might be for? > > > > > > > > https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm392-n.pdf > > > What are you talking about??? > > > > > > I like that you picked a part that comes in tiny packages, like DIPs. Even the SOIC is a large package these days. > > > > > > Figure 1. SOIC and PDIP Packages > > > > > > WTF is going on with you? An opamp and a comparator is always going be a larger package than a simple comparator that does the job. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Rick C. > > > > > > ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > > > ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > > https://vendor.ultralibrarian.com/TI/embedded/?gpn=LM392&package=DGK&pin=8&sid=&c=1 > > > > https://www.ti.com/lit/ml/mpds028d/mpds028d.pdf?ts=1668889533066&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.ti.com%252Fproduct%252FLM392 > > > > Dimensions mm, multiply by 0.04 ( or 0.039) to convert to inches. > > > > 3.00mm longest dimension looks pretty small to me. > Again, I ask WTF is wrong with you? The LM392-N does not come in the DCK package according to the data sheet you linked to. SOIC-8 which is 5x6 mm. It is trivial to find a comparator in a SOT-23-6 package, much smaller.You're so inexperienced you think a datasheet tells you all you need to know about a part?> Rick C. > > --- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > --- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Comparator with driver output
Started by ●November 17, 2022
Reply by ●November 19, 20222022-11-19
Reply by ●November 19, 20222022-11-19
Ricky wrote:> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 6:00:51 PM UTC-5, Jasen Betts wrote: >> On 2022-11-17, sonnic...@gmail.com <sonnic...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi all >>> >>> A standard comparator f.x LM393, LM2903 etc commonly have a >>> open-collector output. Does the group know about comparators with >>> driver output, hence can pull up and down, and output like an >>> ordinary opamp? >>> >>> How do I search for such ones? >>> >>> An ordinary opamp does not fit my need, as my application could >>> balance itself >>> >>> WBR Sonnich >> John Larkin likes using LVDS receivers as fast comparators. they >> will have driver outputs. >> >> If the input signal levels are compatible and you can wear the >> typically larger offset votlage you may find that could be a >> solution. > > The trouble with using a digital differential input as an analog > comparator, is they are not specified for the same sort of > performance. For example, the input offset can typically be rather > large. Maybe in experiments, they prove to work well with low > offsets, but there's no good reason to use such a device in an > application it is not specified for... or I should say, unspecified > for. > > Also, LVDS receivers seldom have wide common mode ranges.The ones I use do. FIN1002 is pretty nearly RRI, for one. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●November 20, 20222022-11-20
On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 8:06:44 PM UTC-5, Fred Bloggs wrote:> On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 5:16:00 PM UTC-5, Ricky wrote: > > On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 3:41:59 PM UTC-5, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 12:03:50 PM UTC-5, Ricky wrote: > > > > On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 6:04:05 AM UTC-5, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > > On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 2:34:34 AM UTC-5, Ricky wrote: > > > > > > On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 9:15:53 PM UTC-5, Fred Bloggs wrote: > > > > > > > On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:20:08 PM UTC-5, sonnic...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A standard comparator f.x LM393, LM2903 etc commonly have a open-collector output. > > > > > > > > Does the group know about comparators with driver output, hence can pull up and down, and output like an ordinary opamp? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do I search for such ones? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > An ordinary opamp does not fit my need, as my application could balance itself > > > > > > > You could use an op amp to buffer the LM393 OC output. Two cheap parts are still cheap. The super fast comparators mentioned are all very fussy about layout and have self-oscillation problems if you're not careful about every little thing. > > > > > > No part is cheap if it takes up space on a crowded board. > > > > > > > > > > > > Many Greenpak devices have comparators in them, but few have opamps. > > > > > I just want to say I am so thankful to have you around to set me straight. Well, my word, what could I do without you. > > > > > > > > > > WTF you think a part like this just might be for? > > > > > > > > > > https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm392-n.pdf > > > > What are you talking about??? > > > > > > > > I like that you picked a part that comes in tiny packages, like DIPs. Even the SOIC is a large package these days. > > > > > > > > Figure 1. SOIC and PDIP Packages > > > > > > > > WTF is going on with you? An opamp and a comparator is always going be a larger package than a simple comparator that does the job. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Rick C. > > > > > > > > ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > > > > ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 > > > https://vendor.ultralibrarian.com/TI/embedded/?gpn=LM392&package=DGK&pin=8&sid=&c=1 > > > > > > https://www.ti.com/lit/ml/mpds028d/mpds028d.pdf?ts=1668889533066&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.ti.com%252Fproduct%252FLM392 > > > > > > Dimensions mm, multiply by 0.04 ( or 0.039) to convert to inches. > > > > > > 3.00mm longest dimension looks pretty small to me. > > Again, I ask WTF is wrong with you? The LM392-N does not come in the DCK package according to the data sheet you linked to. SOIC-8 which is 5x6 mm. It is trivial to find a comparator in a SOT-23-6 package, much smaller. > You're so inexperienced you think a datasheet tells you all you need to know about a part?Clearly I'm not as wise as you. https://www.ti.com/product/LM392-N#order-quality Show me again the DCK package for this part? Onsemi doesn't even have the DIP, just the SOIC. Why are you playing this game??? -- Rick C. --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●November 20, 20222022-11-20
On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 21:27:38 -0500, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>Ricky wrote: >> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 6:00:51 PM UTC-5, Jasen Betts wrote: >>> On 2022-11-17, sonnic...@gmail.com <sonnic...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Hi all >>>> >>>> A standard comparator f.x LM393, LM2903 etc commonly have a >>>> open-collector output. Does the group know about comparators with >>>> driver output, hence can pull up and down, and output like an >>>> ordinary opamp? >>>> >>>> How do I search for such ones? >>>> >>>> An ordinary opamp does not fit my need, as my application could >>>> balance itself >>>> >>>> WBR Sonnich >>> John Larkin likes using LVDS receivers as fast comparators. they >>> will have driver outputs. >>> >>> If the input signal levels are compatible and you can wear the >>> typically larger offset votlage you may find that could be a >>> solution. >> >> The trouble with using a digital differential input as an analog >> comparator, is they are not specified for the same sort of >> performance. For example, the input offset can typically be rather >> large. Maybe in experiments, they prove to work well with low >> offsets, but there's no good reason to use such a device in an >> application it is not specified for... or I should say, unspecified >> for. >> >> Also, LVDS receivers seldom have wide common mode ranges. > >The ones I use do. FIN1002 is pretty nearly RRI, for one. > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsMost work from below ground up to almost the + rail.
Reply by ●November 20, 20222022-11-20
John Larkin wrote:> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 21:27:38 -0500, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> Ricky wrote: >>> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 6:00:51 PM UTC-5, Jasen Betts wrote: >>>> On 2022-11-17, sonnic...@gmail.com <sonnic...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> Hi all >>>>> >>>>> A standard comparator f.x LM393, LM2903 etc commonly have a >>>>> open-collector output. Does the group know about comparators with >>>>> driver output, hence can pull up and down, and output like an >>>>> ordinary opamp? >>>>> >>>>> How do I search for such ones? >>>>> >>>>> An ordinary opamp does not fit my need, as my application could >>>>> balance itself >>>>> >>>>> WBR Sonnich >>>> John Larkin likes using LVDS receivers as fast comparators. they >>>> will have driver outputs. >>>> >>>> If the input signal levels are compatible and you can wear the >>>> typically larger offset votlage you may find that could be a >>>> solution. >>> >>> The trouble with using a digital differential input as an analog >>> comparator, is they are not specified for the same sort of >>> performance. For example, the input offset can typically be rather >>> large. Maybe in experiments, they prove to work well with low >>> offsets, but there's no good reason to use such a device in an >>> application it is not specified for... or I should say, unspecified >>> for. >>> >>> Also, LVDS receivers seldom have wide common mode ranges. >> >> The ones I use do. FIN1002 is pretty nearly RRI, for one. >> >> Cheers >> >> Phil Hobbs > > Most work from below ground up to almost the + rail. >Yup. The FIN1002 datasheet has a delay vs. CM voltage plot that's pretty well dead flat from -0.4V to +2.8, running off a 3.3V rail. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●November 20, 20222022-11-20
On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 13:29:24 -0500, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>John Larkin wrote: >> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 21:27:38 -0500, Phil Hobbs >> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >>> Ricky wrote: >>>> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 6:00:51 PM UTC-5, Jasen Betts wrote: >>>>> On 2022-11-17, sonnic...@gmail.com <sonnic...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> Hi all >>>>>> >>>>>> A standard comparator f.x LM393, LM2903 etc commonly have a >>>>>> open-collector output. Does the group know about comparators with >>>>>> driver output, hence can pull up and down, and output like an >>>>>> ordinary opamp? >>>>>> >>>>>> How do I search for such ones? >>>>>> >>>>>> An ordinary opamp does not fit my need, as my application could >>>>>> balance itself >>>>>> >>>>>> WBR Sonnich >>>>> John Larkin likes using LVDS receivers as fast comparators. they >>>>> will have driver outputs. >>>>> >>>>> If the input signal levels are compatible and you can wear the >>>>> typically larger offset votlage you may find that could be a >>>>> solution. >>>> >>>> The trouble with using a digital differential input as an analog >>>> comparator, is they are not specified for the same sort of >>>> performance. For example, the input offset can typically be rather >>>> large. Maybe in experiments, they prove to work well with low >>>> offsets, but there's no good reason to use such a device in an >>>> application it is not specified for... or I should say, unspecified >>>> for. >>>> >>>> Also, LVDS receivers seldom have wide common mode ranges. >>> >>> The ones I use do. FIN1002 is pretty nearly RRI, for one. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Phil Hobbs >> >> Most work from below ground up to almost the + rail. >> >Yup. The FIN1002 datasheet has a delay vs. CM voltage plot that's >pretty well dead flat from -0.4V to +2.8, running off a 3.3V rail. > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsIt's convenient to have a grounded LC tank that drives a grounded LVDS receiver with a zero threshold. A general-purpose 10 MHz clock input, for example. A user might apply most any waveform and amplitude. Series DC block cap+Resistor+LC+LVDS cleans up nearly anything.
Reply by ●November 20, 20222022-11-20
John Larkin wrote:> On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 13:29:24 -0500, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> John Larkin wrote: >>> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 21:27:38 -0500, Phil Hobbs >>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Ricky wrote: >>>>> On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 6:00:51 PM UTC-5, Jasen Betts wrote: >>>>>> On 2022-11-17, sonnic...@gmail.com <sonnic...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A standard comparator f.x LM393, LM2903 etc commonly have a >>>>>>> open-collector output. Does the group know about comparators with >>>>>>> driver output, hence can pull up and down, and output like an >>>>>>> ordinary opamp? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How do I search for such ones? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> An ordinary opamp does not fit my need, as my application could >>>>>>> balance itself >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WBR Sonnich >>>>>> John Larkin likes using LVDS receivers as fast comparators. they >>>>>> will have driver outputs. >>>>>> >>>>>> If the input signal levels are compatible and you can wear the >>>>>> typically larger offset votlage you may find that could be a >>>>>> solution. >>>>> >>>>> The trouble with using a digital differential input as an analog >>>>> comparator, is they are not specified for the same sort of >>>>> performance. For example, the input offset can typically be rather >>>>> large. Maybe in experiments, they prove to work well with low >>>>> offsets, but there's no good reason to use such a device in an >>>>> application it is not specified for... or I should say, unspecified >>>>> for. >>>>> >>>>> Also, LVDS receivers seldom have wide common mode ranges. >>>> >>>> The ones I use do. FIN1002 is pretty nearly RRI, for one. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Phil Hobbs >>> >>> Most work from below ground up to almost the + rail. >>> >> Yup. The FIN1002 datasheet has a delay vs. CM voltage plot that's >> pretty well dead flat from -0.4V to +2.8, running off a 3.3V rail. >> >> Cheers >> >> Phil Hobbs > > It's convenient to have a grounded LC tank that drives a grounded LVDS > receiver with a zero threshold. > > A general-purpose 10 MHz clock input, for example. A user might apply > most any waveform and amplitude. Series DC block cap+Resistor+LC+LVDS > cleans up nearly anything. >Good idea. Some instruments insist on TTL levels, which is a bit of a nuisance. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
