Hi, Here's a new SMPS switcher apparently coming out next year for laptops: http://phys.org/news/2013-12-circuit-laptop-charger-brick.html It apparently has a "power reclaiming scheme" for higher efficiency, would this be conventional sync rectification or some other thing? It looks like power electronics is in for a big (r)evolution once the 300MHz+ designs start to spread! cheers, Jamie
new 30MHz to 300MHz switcher - worlds smallest laptop adapter
Started by ●December 25, 2013
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On a sunny day (Tue, 24 Dec 2013 20:29:14 -0800) it happened Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> wrote in <l9dmun$pqb$1@speranza.aioe.org>:>Hi, > >Here's a new SMPS switcher apparently coming out next year for laptops: > >http://phys.org/news/2013-12-circuit-laptop-charger-brick.html > >It apparently has a "power reclaiming scheme" for higher efficiency, >would this be conventional sync rectification or some other thing?After following the links and reading up on the professor, it seems they use some transformerless on chip converter. Obviously there must be some magnetics somewhere for mains isolation... But maybe at these high frequencies charge can be stored in on chip caps, and diodes replaced by switching transistors (synchronous rectifiers). He got 9 million $ funding, has to sell a lot of cheap converters to break even, not counting his own pay. Laptop converters go for 12$ or so on ebay, And not 2 models are the same. be a while before his chips are on ebay ? Maybe at 300 MHz just air coupled transformers (just a few turns) would work, no magnetic losses. But that could be done with a current sine wave resonant design. Not sure anybody wants to fork out 9 M$ for me to design one, :-)
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 09:20:51 GMT, the renowned Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:> >He got 9 million $ funding, has to sell a lot of cheap converters to break even, >not counting his own pay. >Laptop converters go for 12$ or so on ebay, >And not 2 models are the same.There are "universal" converters, that apparently more-or-less work fairly well.>be a while before his chips are on ebay ? > >Maybe at 300 MHz just air coupled transformers (just a few turns) would work, >no magnetic losses.Not sure that follows.>But that could be done with a current sine wave resonant design. >Not sure anybody wants to fork out 9 M$ for me to design one, >:-)You could try crowdfunding if you were interested. Those bricks are a real PITA. A lot of people would shell out $50 or $100 if it made the problem disappear. It wouldn't have to be revolutionary technology, just a different trade-off (and probably some kick-ass styling and slick videography/photography to sell it). Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 11:20:51 AM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote:> But that could be done with a current sine wave resonant design.Ordinary MOSFET at 300 Mhz?
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 06:54:40 -0500) it happened Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in <jkhlb9h9do7np41isbuboo3bjj1dgcfbd1@4ax.com>:>On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 09:20:51 GMT, the renowned Jan Panteltje ><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >>He got 9 million $ funding, has to sell a lot of cheap converters to break even, >>not counting his own pay. >>Laptop converters go for 12$ or so on ebay, >>And not 2 models are the same. > >There are "universal" converters, that apparently more-or-less work >fairly well.Yes, but then will be overkill for some lower power devices. Will his efficiency hold at lower power levels? Does he have a way to realize different output voltages and current limits?>>be a while before his chips are on ebay ? >> >>Maybe at 300 MHz just air coupled transformers (just a few turns) would work, >>no magnetic losses. > >Not sure that follows.In the sixties I build a 14 MHz(?IIRC) 500 W linear (tube) amp with the tank coil of just a few turns on a ceramic former. The losses in that 'transformer' were null, zero, you could put a screwdriver in it though, and it would get really hot. I once put a neon tube in the tank coil, and it got to some exited state all of the sudden, that night I dreamt about lasers... So it could, at 30 to 300 MHz be just some PCB coils on each side of the PCB for mains side and low power side, PCB as safety barrier.>>But that could be done with a current sine wave resonant design. >>Not sure anybody wants to fork out 9 M$ for me to design one, >>:-) > >You could try crowdfunding if you were interested. Those bricks are a >real PITA. A lot of people would shell out $50 or $100 if it made the >problem disappear. It wouldn't have to be revolutionary technology, >just a different trade-off (and probably some kick-ass styling and >slick videography/photography to sell it).Yes good idea... but the bricks do not bother me, my laptop is much bigger... And I am now working on my air speed meter.... One thing that professor may also have to solve, is that his 'invention' looks like a 120 V gadget. Finding those same semiconductors and using the same methods for rectified 230 V may be a different story.
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 04:27:09 -0800 (PST)) it happened Artem <artem.bond@gmail.com> wrote in <2a107dbe-d5c7-4bb7-80e8-16954440d64d@googlegroups.com>:>On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 11:20:51 AM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >> But that could be done with a current sine wave resonant design. > >Ordinary MOSFET at 300 Mhz?No need for a MOSFEt, transistor would do.
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 2:38:03 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote:> On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 04:27:09 -0800 (PST)) it happened Artem > > <artem.bond@gmail.com> wrote in >> > No need for a MOSFEt, transistor would do.RF transistors usually low voltages.
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 04:46:36 -0800 (PST)) it happened Artem <artem.bond@gmail.com> wrote in <c1375bc0-ec8f-4087-92e9-9f650d0f959b@googlegroups.com>:>On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 2:38:03 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 04:27:09 -0800 (PST)) it happened Artem >> >> <artem.bond@gmail.com> wrote in >> > >> >> No need for a MOSFEt, transistor would do. > >RF transistors usually low voltages.Yes true, but high voltage type exist, for example the old video output drivers, although low current, 100 mA at 230 V is already 23 W. There are better ones too these days. No need for high power transistors on the mains side, especially if losses are low, like he claims.
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 3:00:41 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote:> On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 04:46:36 -0800 (PST)) it happened Artem> drivers, although low current, 100 mA at 230 V is already 23 W.1. It's only for 110v power grid. 2. Bandwidth TV only 6.5 Mhz. 3. Efficiency will be low because transistor in linear mode.
Reply by ●December 25, 20132013-12-25
On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 05:14:48 -0800 (PST)) it happened Artem <artem.bond@gmail.com> wrote in <c84cbde4-4dff-4c03-bbd4-2f4fa1855ba5@googlegroups.com>:>On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 3:00:41 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 04:46:36 -0800 (PST)) it happened Artem > >> drivers, although low current, 100 mA at 230 V is already 23 W. > >1. It's only for 110v power grid.That is too small a market for an adaptor to break even on the 9 mega $.>2. Bandwidth TV only 6.5 Mhz.CRT drivers for the late SVGA video monitors go way above 250 Mhz (pixel clock).>3. Efficiency will be low because transistor in linear mode.Normally everybody screams: 'switcher switcher switcher'. Switcher transistors have an efficiency problem if they cannot switch fast enough, power is dissipated during the on and of switching times. I was proposing (I dunno about that professor), to use a SINE wave converter. I grew up with sine waves in high power, stabilizers too (was it not called 'Westat'?), the energy is in the LC. I have designed that kind of converters with really good efficiency for lower frequencies, with magnetic (pot, E) cores. But those are for one fixed output voltage, not easy to adjust, except perhaps by using taps on the coils and different capacitor values, mechanical voltage selector switches would be required. But hey, I want 4.5 mega dollars in advance, and teh other 4.5 mega dollars on delivery of a fixed voltage prototype,... ;-) Seems to me the whole thing is just a student project they should figure it out some day. Remember MIT is the same club that re-invented Tesla's wireless power transfer (and sold it to Boeing IIRC). Not seen it used yet. So, what shall I do with 9 million, I have already eaten enough for the Christmas, not hungry, I need some winter boots, in case it ever snows here again in winter. Oh and a yacht to sail around the world too of course, come to think of it I could want to drive one of those new Tesla electric cars, and next year I should buy more Christmas candy, as it was already all eaten up before today. So.. :-)
