the well-dressed engineer

On 9/16/2023 1:03 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> Those are the ones you notice, but the ones that dress and behave
> sensibly don't get noticed.  There is a comparison here with teenage
> girls: they can wear makeup and revealing clothes for the first time in
> their lives, so they go a bit too far.  Then they find out what suits
> them and settle down to be just ordinary women.

I think you are underestimating the social/cultural effects.
E.g., latinas tend to "let it all hang out" because their
culture allows that.  They also "feel safe" (WITHIN that
culture) to do so.  They KNOW that latinos (and anglos, etc.)
are oggling them -- but know that there are limits on those
actions.

> Some men have strange ideas about what it means to be a woman and think
> feminity is all about glamour, sexiness or extreme effeminate behaviour.
> They get mixed up with transwomen (in their own minds too) but usually
> don't ever transition.

Such generalizations can apply to any two "groups".  I realize that my
understanding of others is an intellectual exercise; I *can't* know
what it is (truly) like to be a female.  Or, gay.  Or, black.  Or,
physically handicapped.  Or, ...

I can EDUCATE myself as to the issues that those people likely face
but can't really "grok" their condition.

What's it like to give birth (physically, emotionally, etc.)?
What's it like to have men staring at your chest while talking?
What's it like to be denied a rent because you were "too dark"?
Or, perceived as a criminal for the same reason?  Or, considered
less intelligent because of an accent?

We can hear comedians (and comediennes) joke about these
"conditions" but can't truly relate to them.

The comedian, Gallagher, (bald with shoulder-length hair)
once removed his ever-present hat to get a laugh at
his appearance.  He then commented, "You women don't know
what it's like to lose your hair (actually, a misstatement);
imagine if your TITS fell off!"

(How many men can understand what it must feel like to feel a
lump in YOUR breast?)

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 10:02:37 AM UTC+10, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/16/2023 1:03 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: 

<snip>

> (How many men can understand what it must feel like to feel a  lump in YOUR breast?)

Perhaps more than Don Y thinks. Men can get breast cancer.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/male-breast-cancer/symptoms-causes/syc-20374740

It's rare, but it does happen.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 7:31:08 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> https://www.insidehook.com/article/style/fall-style-trends 
> 
> I kinda miss the white shirts and skinny ties and pocket protectors. 
> 
> (I'm wearing sweats and slippers at work today, but I have an excuse.)
I haven't worn a suit or tie in 20 years, and that was for a funeral. Due to the damage to my legs, I haven' worn pants in over 15 years, so it is a pair of shorts, and a tee shirt.  I got into yhe habit of wearing bright colored tee shirts when I worked at Microdyne, because my supervisor would complain that he couldn't find me. Then everyone would tell him, "He's been at his bench for hours."  If I was going to the stock room for parts, or to the restroom, I was also noticed. (I was an undiagnosed Diabetic, and had to pee quite often during my last year there.)

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

> On 9/16/2023 1:03 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> > Those are the ones you notice, but the ones that dress and behave
> > sensibly don't get noticed.  There is a comparison here with teenage
> > girls: they can wear makeup and revealing clothes for the first time in
> > their lives, so they go a bit too far.  Then they find out what suits
> > them and settle down to be just ordinary women.
> 
> I think you are underestimating the social/cultural effects.
> E.g., latinas tend to "let it all hang out" because their
> culture allows that.  They also "feel safe" (WITHIN that
> culture) to do so.  They KNOW that latinos (and anglos, etc.)
> are oggling them -- but know that there are limits on those
> actions.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here; I've never seen the behaviour
you describe but it doesn't seem to be anything to do with transgender -
more like exhibitionism.

I know many transwomen: they are bus drivers, photographers, biologists,
programmers, medical professionals, journalists, lawyers, engineers,
etc.  They get on with their lives in exactly the same way other women
do in the same jobs.  In their leisure time they go shopping, join
Bridge clubs, play in jazz bands,  help at the Women's Institute,
restore canals etc.  They just want to be left to get on with their
lives in peace.

I can only think of two who have ever attended a Pride event and one of
those was the official photographer.  Most of them would never want to
flaunt themselves in public; several of them transitioned many years ago
and their friends and colleagues never think of them as anything other
than women.

As I mentioned before, it's the noisy or inappropriate exhibitionists,
who may not even be trans, who get themselves noticed.


-- 
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 4:31:08 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> https://www.insidehook.com/article/style/fall-style-trends 
> 
> I kinda miss the white shirts and skinny ties and pocket protectors. 
> 
> (I'm wearing sweats and slippers at work today, but I have an excuse.)

Now, with Zoom and working from home, the question is are they even wearing PANTS?

On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 11:35:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 4:31:08 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote: 
> > https://www.insidehook.com/article/style/fall-style-trends 
> > 
> > I kinda miss the white shirts and skinny ties and pocket protectors. 
> > 
> > (I'm wearing sweats and slippers at work today, but I have an excuse.)
>
> Now, with Zoom and working from home, the question is are they even wearing PANTS?

But is it a question worth asking? The fact that it is Sewage Sweeper who is bothering to ask it is something of a clue.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney