< https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/re-writing-spice-for-a-digital-world/ > cheers, Gerhard
Mike Engelhards next simulator after LTSpice
Started by ●May 10, 2023
Reply by ●May 10, 20232023-05-10
On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 7:17:48 PM UTC-4, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:> < > https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/re-writing-spice-for-a-digital-world/ > > > cheers, GerhardAnyone understand how Qorvo is involved? I'm not getting it. -- Rick C. - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●May 10, 20232023-05-10
On Thu, 11 May 2023 01:17:41 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> wrote:> > >< >https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/re-writing-spice-for-a-digital-world/ > > >cheers, GerhardThat's great. LT Spice digital simulation is awful. Free is even better. He could have sold it for big bucks, but I suspect he's crazy rich already.
Reply by ●May 10, 20232023-05-10
On Wed, 10 May 2023 17:10:15 -0700, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:>On Thu, 11 May 2023 01:17:41 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> >wrote: > >> >> >>< >>https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/re-writing-spice-for-a-digital-world/ > >> >>cheers, Gerhard > >That's great. LT Spice digital simulation is awful. > >Free is even better. He could have sold it for big bucks, but I >suspect he's crazy rich already. > >The real breakthrough would be if there will be Spice models for their RF transistors.
Reply by ●May 10, 20232023-05-10
On 2023-05-10 19:17, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:> > > < > https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/re-writing-spice-for-a-digital-world/ > > > cheers, GerhardAwesome. I'm looking forward to trying it. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●May 11, 20232023-05-11
On 2023-05-10 20:19, John Larkin wrote:> On Wed, 10 May 2023 17:10:15 -0700, John Larkin > <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, 11 May 2023 01:17:41 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> < >>> https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/re-writing-spice-for-a-digital-world/ > >>> >>> cheers, Gerhard >> >> That's great. LT Spice digital simulation is awful. >> >> Free is even better. He could have sold it for big bucks, but I >> suspect he's crazy rich already. >> >> > > The real breakthrough would be if there will be Spice models for their > RF transistors. >I'd settle for built-in support for (1) diffusive transport, e.g. forward recovery in diodes (triple credit for modelling SRDs correctly), and (2) plot scaling that sits still when you re-run the sim. BTW Infineon has Spice models for their SiGe parts. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●May 11, 20232023-05-11
On Thu, 11 May 2023 21:55:27 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>On 2023-05-10 20:19, John Larkin wrote: >> On Wed, 10 May 2023 17:10:15 -0700, John Larkin >> <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 11 May 2023 01:17:41 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> < >>>> https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/re-writing-spice-for-a-digital-world/ > >>>> >>>> cheers, Gerhard >>> >>> That's great. LT Spice digital simulation is awful. >>> >>> Free is even better. He could have sold it for big bucks, but I >>> suspect he's crazy rich already. >>> >>> >> >> The real breakthrough would be if there will be Spice models for their >> RF transistors. >> > >I'd settle for built-in support for (1) diffusive transport, e.g. >forward recovery in diodes (triple credit for modelling SRDs correctly), >and (2) plot scaling that sits still when you re-run the sim.It can't know in advance how high the current is gonna go on this run!> >BTW Infineon has Spice models for their SiGe parts.So does EPC for their GaN. I think that s-params and Smith charts and load pull data are all relics of the graph paper and slide rule days. Spice makes so much more sense, especially as the world gets more wideband and more nonlinear.> >Cheers > >Phil Hobbs
Reply by ●May 12, 20232023-05-12
Am 12.05.23 um 04:58 schrieb John Larkin:> On Thu, 11 May 2023 21:55:27 -0400, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> On 2023-05-10 20:19, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Wed, 10 May 2023 17:10:15 -0700, John Larkin >>> <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 11 May 2023 01:17:41 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> < >>>>> https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/re-writing-spice-for-a-digital-world/ > >>>>> >>>>> cheers, Gerhard >>>> >>>> That's great. LT Spice digital simulation is awful. >>>> >>>> Free is even better. He could have sold it for big bucks, but I >>>> suspect he's crazy rich already. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> The real breakthrough would be if there will be Spice models for their >>> RF transistors. >>> >> >> I'd settle for built-in support for (1) diffusive transport, e.g. >> forward recovery in diodes (triple credit for modelling SRDs correctly), >> and (2) plot scaling that sits still when you re-run the sim. > > It can't know in advance how high the current is gonna go on this run! > >> >> BTW Infineon has Spice models for their SiGe parts. > > So does EPC for their GaN. > > I think that s-params and Smith charts and load pull data are all > relics of the graph paper and slide rule days. Spice makes so much > more sense, especially as the world gets more wideband and more > nonlinear.No . they are not relics. Network analyzers, SmithCharts and s-params look at a circuit from the frequency domain just as spice, scopes and TDRs look from the time domain. I learned Spice 2G4 on a Telefunken TR-4 computer that still ran mostly on core memory and Ge-Transistors, the first commercial microprogrammed machine. A 48 bit machine and its 96 bit double reals were a joy. VAX and X87 was a major step backwards for spice. There are no longer punched cards and output is no longer on a chain printer. Other than that, Spice itself has not made a lot of progress, the biggest step was the transistion from Fortran to C but since Berkeley has left the boat - that's it. 30 Years? A number of companies have sculptured their private user interface on the spice kernel and sold the result as a new product. p-spice, microcap, H-spice for timesharing service, Kevin's Superspice. Where are they now? They all may have made small improvements, that are headed to the gutter. No central authority anymore that keeps things together and forever. NG-spice perhaps, but I cannot remember any news since years. As nice as LTspice was, it was a disaster for further improvements. Now with Qorvo there is at least some free competition. Free as in free beer. Still it cannot model carrier lifetime for PIN diodes, it cannot do nonlinear noise analysis. Noise analysis of a chopper amplifier? Don't make me laugh so hard! Noise and frequency response is computed in Spice by linearizing the circuit around the operating point and then doing small signal analysis. Is that any better than using s-parameters for 5V / 4mA right from the start? Which is the stable operating point in a chopper amplifier, or in an oscillator with pulse feedback in Lee-Hajimiry style to suppress phase noise? How does Spice compute phase noise? There's no harmonic balance simulation. Keysight ADS & Genesys and MWO have it and they have the RF transistor design kits in their libs. And they can ask an insane amount of money for it. Even ham simulators like QUCs-Studio start to get it. < http://qucsstudio.de/de/start/ > Cheers, Gerhard
Reply by ●May 12, 20232023-05-12
Am 12.05.23 um 03:55 schrieb Phil Hobbs:> > I'd settle for built-in support for (1) diffusive transport, e.g. > forward recovery in diodes (triple credit for modelling SRDs correctly), > and (2) plot scaling that sits still when you re-run the sim.and (3) running freq response, timing and noise in one job without editing the .tran / .noise / .ac line, where the old parameters are used as defaults for completely unrelated things.
Reply by ●May 12, 20232023-05-12
Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> wrote:> Am 12.05.23 um 03:55 schrieb Phil Hobbs: > >> >> I'd settle for built-in support for (1) diffusive transport, e.g. >> forward recovery in diodes (triple credit for modelling SRDs correctly), >> and (2) plot scaling that sits still when you re-run the sim. > > and (3) running freq response, timing and noise in one job > without editing the .tran / .noise / .ac line, where the old > parameters are used as defaults for completely unrelated things. > >That one is a wart, for sure. It’s reasonable to work around, though—once you get used to the syntax, you can just put .tran, .ac, and .noise in one block, and comment out the ones you’re not using. That way you can have all the defaults you like. Having the simulator ignore prominent effects like carrier transport is more of a problem. For time-saving, it would also be nice to have better treatment of board strays. A full method-of-moments EM sim would be unwieldy, but something as simple as trace capacitance wouldn’t be that hard. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
