Does anyone know the status of 10 Mbit ethernet? Might it be supported long-term for some industrial uses or something? Is it likely to go away?
10 mbit ethernet
Started by ●December 2, 2022
Reply by ●December 2, 20222022-12-02
On 2022-12-02 17:14, John Larkin wrote:> Does anyone know the status of 10 Mbit ethernet? Might it be supported > long-term for some industrial uses or something? Is it likely to go > away? >Single pair 10BASE-T1S and 10BASE-T1L are alive and kicking. Used for industrial (replacement of sensor / actuator field busses) and automotive. Long distances, and/or multidrop. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_over_twisted_pair "Two new variants of 10 megabit per second Ethernet over a single twisted pair, known as 10BASE-T1S and 10BASE-T1L, were standardized in IEEE Std 802.3cg-2019.[2] 10BASE-T1S has its origins in the automotive industry and may be useful in other short-distance applications where substantial electrical noise is present.[3] 10BASE-T1L is a long-distance Ethernet, supporting connections up to 1 km in length. Both of these standards are finding applications implementing the Internet of things." Connectors, cables and most important PHY's are available. Arie
Reply by ●December 2, 20222022-12-02
On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 18:05:20 +0100, Arie de Muijnck <eternal.september@ademu.com> wrote:>On 2022-12-02 17:14, John Larkin wrote: >> Does anyone know the status of 10 Mbit ethernet? Might it be supported >> long-term for some industrial uses or something? Is it likely to go >> away? >> > >Single pair 10BASE-T1S and 10BASE-T1L are alive and kicking. Used for industrial (replacement of sensor / actuator field busses) and automotive. Long distances, and/or multidrop. > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_over_twisted_pair >"Two new variants of 10 megabit per second Ethernet over a single twisted pair, known as 10BASE-T1S and 10BASE-T1L, were standardized in IEEE Std 802.3cg-2019.[2] 10BASE-T1S has its origins in the automotive industry and may be useful in other short-distance applications where substantial electrical noise is present.[3] 10BASE-T1L is a long-distance Ethernet, supporting connections up to 1 km in length. Both of these standards are finding applications implementing the Internet of things." > >Connectors, cables and most important PHY's are available. > >ArieThat sounds good. I was mostly thinking about the usual 4-pair CAT6, so normal computers and hubs and things would work.
Reply by ●December 2, 20222022-12-02
On 2022-12-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:> Does anyone know the status of 10 Mbit ethernet? Might it be supported > long-term for some industrial uses or something? Is it likely to go > away?I have seen ethernet PHYs above 1GBit/s that do not support 10MBit/s anymore, but I don't have part numbers at hand. OTOH, PC NICs drop their ethernet link to 10MBit/s in sleep mode to save power (for wake on lan) - not sure if these migrate to 100MBit/s or not. cu Michael
Reply by ●December 2, 20222022-12-02
On 12/2/2022 19:21, John Larkin wrote:> On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 18:05:20 +0100, Arie de Muijnck > <eternal.september@ademu.com> wrote: > >> On 2022-12-02 17:14, John Larkin wrote: >>> Does anyone know the status of 10 Mbit ethernet? Might it be supported >>> long-term for some industrial uses or something? Is it likely to go >>> away? >>> >> >> Single pair 10BASE-T1S and 10BASE-T1L are alive and kicking. Used for industrial (replacement of sensor / actuator field busses) and automotive. Long distances, and/or multidrop. >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_over_twisted_pair >> "Two new variants of 10 megabit per second Ethernet over a single twisted pair, known as 10BASE-T1S and 10BASE-T1L, were standardized in IEEE Std 802.3cg-2019.[2] 10BASE-T1S has its origins in the automotive industry and may be useful in other short-distance applications where substantial electrical noise is present.[3] 10BASE-T1L is a long-distance Ethernet, supporting connections up to 1 km in length. Both of these standards are finding applications implementing the Internet of things." >> >> Connectors, cables and most important PHY's are available. >> >> Arie > > That sounds good. I was mostly thinking about the usual 4-pair CAT6, > so normal computers and hubs and things would work. >Made me check for the dp8392... Still can be found (obviously old stock). Not many (but me...) have a coaxial Ethernet still running. And well, the 10Mbps hub has just one Nukeman behind itself... The hub is (I think) just physical, no "buffer and then retransmit". But works connected to a 10/100 hub to the "normal" network here. For how long hubs and PCs will allow that ... your guess is no worse than mine. Though some bridging will have to be feasible for a longer while, there are many 10/100 etc. switches around.
Reply by ●December 2, 20222022-12-02
Am 02.12.22 um 17:14 schrieb John Larkin:> Does anyone know the status of 10 Mbit ethernet? Might it be supported > long-term for some industrial uses or something? Is it likely to go > away?I've bought an interface box 10 MBit/s BNC <-> 1000 MBit/s (my normal LAN) for my 89441A FFT analyzer. Maybe €29,99 or so. Works wonderfully. Even if the RG58 cable is only 10 cm long, it needs both 50 Ohm terminations. Probably only a DC level thing. Source was Amazon. Gerhard
Reply by ●December 2, 20222022-12-02
On Fri, 02 Dec 2022 08:14:09 -0800, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:>Does anyone know the status of 10 Mbit ethernet? Might it be supported >long-term for some industrial uses or something? Is it likely to go >away?The standard will never go away. The 10 Mbit speed has endured, mostly for factory automation. What is taking that niche over is fiber (versus CAT<something> twisted pair), largely for increased speed and essentially total resistance to EMI. There is a lot of activity involving use of plastic fiber in such as automobiles. What are you trying to accomplish? Joe Gwinn
Reply by ●December 2, 20222022-12-02
On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 20:49:25 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:>On 12/2/2022 19:21, John Larkin wrote: >> On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 18:05:20 +0100, Arie de Muijnck >> <eternal.september@ademu.com> wrote: >> >>> On 2022-12-02 17:14, John Larkin wrote: >>>> Does anyone know the status of 10 Mbit ethernet? Might it be supported >>>> long-term for some industrial uses or something? Is it likely to go >>>> away? >>>> >>> >>> Single pair 10BASE-T1S and 10BASE-T1L are alive and kicking. Used for industrial (replacement of sensor / actuator field busses) and automotive. Long distances, and/or multidrop. >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_over_twisted_pair >>> "Two new variants of 10 megabit per second Ethernet over a single twisted pair, known as 10BASE-T1S and 10BASE-T1L, were standardized in IEEE Std 802.3cg-2019.[2] 10BASE-T1S has its origins in the automotive industry and may be useful in other short-distance applications where substantial electrical noise is present.[3] 10BASE-T1L is a long-distance Ethernet, supporting connections up to 1 km in length. Both of these standards are finding applications implementing the Internet of things." >>> >>> Connectors, cables and most important PHY's are available. >>> >>> Arie >> >> That sounds good. I was mostly thinking about the usual 4-pair CAT6, >> so normal computers and hubs and things would work. >> > >Made me check for the dp8392... Still can be found (obviously old >stock). >Not many (but me...) have a coaxial Ethernet still running. And well, >the 10Mbps hub has just one Nukeman behind itself... The hub is >(I think) just physical, no "buffer and then retransmit". But works >connected to a 10/100 hub to the "normal" network here. For how long >hubs and PCs will allow that ... your guess is no worse than mine. >Though some bridging will have to be feasible for a longer while, >there are many 10/100 etc. switches around.We found coax ethernet to be flakey. Even short stubs or changes in cable length could break it. There don't seem to be many Catx hubs or hub chips around either. Everything is a switch, which is usually good.
Reply by ●December 2, 20222022-12-02
On Fri, 02 Dec 2022 14:10:29 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:>On Fri, 02 Dec 2022 08:14:09 -0800, John Larkin ><jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote: > >>Does anyone know the status of 10 Mbit ethernet? Might it be supported >>long-term for some industrial uses or something? Is it likely to go >>away? > >The standard will never go away. The 10 Mbit speed has endured, >mostly for factory automation. What is taking that niche over is >fiber (versus CAT<something> twisted pair), largely for increased >speed and essentially total resistance to EMI. There is a lot of >activity involving use of plastic fiber in such as automobiles. > >What are you trying to accomplish? > >Joe GwinnIf I use a Raspberry Pi, there is an easy way to add ethernet, but it's apparently reliable at 10M only. That's enough for the data we want to move.
Reply by ●December 2, 20222022-12-02
On 2022-12-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:> On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 18:05:20 +0100, Arie de Muijnck ><eternal.september@ademu.com> wrote: > >>On 2022-12-02 17:14, John Larkin wrote: >>> Does anyone know the status of 10 Mbit ethernet? Might it be supported >>> long-term for some industrial uses or something? Is it likely to go >>> away? >>> >> >>Single pair 10BASE-T1S and 10BASE-T1L are alive and kicking. Used for industrial (replacement of sensor / actuator field busses) and automotive. Long distances, and/or multidrop. >> >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_over_twisted_pair >>"Two new variants of 10 megabit per second Ethernet over a single twisted pair, known as 10BASE-T1S and 10BASE-T1L, were standardized in IEEE Std 802.3cg-2019.[2] 10BASE-T1S has its origins in the automotive industry and may be useful in other short-distance applications where substantial electrical noise is present.[3] 10BASE-T1L is a long-distance Ethernet, supporting connections up to 1 km in length. Both of these standards are finding applications implementing the Internet of things." >> >>Connectors, cables and most important PHY's are available. >> >>Arie > > That sounds good. I was mostly thinking about the usual 4-pair CAT6, > so normal computers and hubs and things would work.10BASE-T has only even needed half as many pairs and half as much CAT. (2 pairs on CAT3). Did you perhaps mean 10 gigbabit Ethernet above? -- Jasen.
