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Schottky diodes, reverse current and solar changers

Started by sonn...@gmail.com September 29, 2022
Hi all

I am playing around with a solar lamp, pretty simple like this
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/540150549038731182/

However I do not (yet) have D2.

D1 in my case is a Schottky 1N5818, and my battery 7.2V
I am surprised how much reverse current I can get through the diode. Without the solar cell, it does not turn on. There is enough current through D1 to the transistor to turn the whole thing off.
With the solar panel on it works as expected.
D2 will solve my issue, but I am also thinking that not completely as it will still get current through reverse D1 and forward D2.

I made a test - Schottky diode 1N5818 -> 2K2 resistor -> white LED.
With the diode in reverse the current is 3uA, just enough to get a weak blue shade of the LED.

Back to my solar lamp. It works with the solar cell so I do not have a big issue. There is 10 days to full moon then I will see the result of that.
But I could also just a classic 1N400x diode, which should not have that much reverse current.
In the same test I get no reverse current.

The idea of D1 as a Schottky is to get most power from the solar panel. My loss seem to be minimal though the reverse current so it is acceptable.

But what do people here think?




On 9/29/2022 2:43 PM, sonnic...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi all > > I am playing around with a solar lamp, pretty simple like this > https://www.pinterest.com/pin/540150549038731182/ > > However I do not (yet) have D2. > > D1 in my case is a Schottky 1N5818, and my battery 7.2V > I am surprised how much reverse current I can get through the diode. Without the solar cell, it does not turn on. There is enough current through D1 to the transistor to turn the whole thing off. > With the solar panel on it works as expected. > D2 will solve my issue, but I am also thinking that not completely as it will still get current through reverse D1 and forward D2. > > I made a test - Schottky diode 1N5818 -> 2K2 resistor -> white LED. > With the diode in reverse the current is 3uA, just enough to get a weak blue shade of the LED. > > Back to my solar lamp. It works with the solar cell so I do not have a big issue. There is 10 days to full moon then I will see the result of that. > But I could also just a classic 1N400x diode, which should not have that much reverse current. > In the same test I get no reverse current. > > The idea of D1 as a Schottky is to get most power from the solar panel. My loss seem to be minimal though the reverse current so it is acceptable. > > But what do people here think? >
I think you could use a FET as a low-loss diode in place of D1.
On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:43:33 -0700 (PDT), "sonnic...@gmail.com"
<sonnichjensen@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hi all > >I am playing around with a solar lamp, pretty simple like this >https://www.pinterest.com/pin/540150549038731182/ > >However I do not (yet) have D2. > >D1 in my case is a Schottky 1N5818, and my battery 7.2V >I am surprised how much reverse current I can get through the diode. Without the solar cell, it does not turn on. There is enough current through D1 to the transistor to turn the whole thing off. >With the solar panel on it works as expected. >D2 will solve my issue, but I am also thinking that not completely as it will still get current through reverse D1 and forward D2. > >I made a test - Schottky diode 1N5818 -> 2K2 resistor -> white LED. >With the diode in reverse the current is 3uA, just enough to get a weak blue shade of the LED. > >Back to my solar lamp. It works with the solar cell so I do not have a big issue. There is 10 days to full moon then I will see the result of that. >But I could also just a classic 1N400x diode, which should not have that much reverse current. >In the same test I get no reverse current. > >The idea of D1 as a Schottky is to get most power from the solar panel. My loss seem to be minimal though the reverse current so it is acceptable. > >But what do people here think? > > >
It's a horrible circuit!
On a sunny day (Thu, 29 Sep 2022 15:54:52 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
<vg8cjhhlpca9khn4hod8fd1oql6vqrrjha@4ax.com>:

>On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:43:33 -0700 (PDT), "sonnic...@gmail.com" ><sonnichjensen@gmail.com> wrote: > >>Hi all >> >>I am playing around with a solar lamp, pretty simple like this >>https://www.pinterest.com/pin/540150549038731182/ >> >>However I do not (yet) have D2. >> >>D1 in my case is a Schottky 1N5818, and my battery 7.2V >>I am surprised how much reverse current I can get through the diode. Without the solar cell, it does not turn on. There is >>enough current through D1 to the transistor to turn the whole thing off. >>With the solar panel on it works as expected. >>D2 will solve my issue, but I am also thinking that not completely as it will still get current through reverse D1 and forward >>D2. >> >>I made a test - Schottky diode 1N5818 -> 2K2 resistor -> white LED. >>With the diode in reverse the current is 3uA, just enough to get a weak blue shade of the LED. >> >>Back to my solar lamp. It works with the solar cell so I do not have a big issue. There is 10 days to full moon then I will see >>the result of that. >>But I could also just a classic 1N400x diode, which should not have that much reverse current. >>In the same test I get no reverse current. >> >>The idea of D1 as a Schottky is to get most power from the solar panel. My loss seem to be minimal though the reverse current >>so it is acceptable. >> >>But what do people here think? >> >> >> > >It's a horrible circuit!
Interesting circuit!
On Friday, 30 September 2022 at 01:35:05 UTC+3, John S wrote:
> On 9/29/2022 2:43 PM, sonnic...@gmail.com wrote: > > Hi all > > > > I am playing around with a solar lamp, pretty simple like this > > https://www.pinterest.com/pin/540150549038731182/ > > > > However I do not (yet) have D2. > > > > D1 in my case is a Schottky 1N5818, and my battery 7.2V > > I am surprised how much reverse current I can get through the diode. Without the solar cell, it does not turn on. There is enough current through D1 to the transistor to turn the whole thing off. > > With the solar panel on it works as expected. > > D2 will solve my issue, but I am also thinking that not completely as it will still get current through reverse D1 and forward D2. > > > > I made a test - Schottky diode 1N5818 -> 2K2 resistor -> white LED. > > With the diode in reverse the current is 3uA, just enough to get a weak blue shade of the LED. > > > > Back to my solar lamp. It works with the solar cell so I do not have a big issue. There is 10 days to full moon then I will see the result of that. > > But I could also just a classic 1N400x diode, which should not have that much reverse current. > > In the same test I get no reverse current. > > > > The idea of D1 as a Schottky is to get most power from the solar panel. My loss seem to be minimal though the reverse current so it is acceptable. > > > > But what do people here think? > > > I think you could use a FET as a low-loss diode in place of D1.
Thanks. I looked at the option and it seems promising
On Friday, 30 September 2022 at 08:02:07 UTC+3, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Thu, 29 Sep 2022 15:54:52 -0700) it happened John Larkin > <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in > <vg8cjhhlpca9khn4h...@4ax.com>: > >On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:43:33 -0700 (PDT), "sonnic...@gmail.com" > ><sonnic...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>Hi all > >> > >>I am playing around with a solar lamp, pretty simple like this > >>https://www.pinterest.com/pin/540150549038731182/ > >> > >>However I do not (yet) have D2. > >> > >>D1 in my case is a Schottky 1N5818, and my battery 7.2V > >>I am surprised how much reverse current I can get through the diode. Without the solar cell, it does not turn on. There is > >>enough current through D1 to the transistor to turn the whole thing off. > >>With the solar panel on it works as expected. > >>D2 will solve my issue, but I am also thinking that not completely as it will still get current through reverse D1 and forward > >>D2. > >> > >>I made a test - Schottky diode 1N5818 -> 2K2 resistor -> white LED. > >>With the diode in reverse the current is 3uA, just enough to get a weak blue shade of the LED. > >> > >>Back to my solar lamp. It works with the solar cell so I do not have a big issue. There is 10 days to full moon then I will see > >>the result of that. > >>But I could also just a classic 1N400x diode, which should not have that much reverse current. > >>In the same test I get no reverse current. > >> > >>The idea of D1 as a Schottky is to get most power from the solar panel. My loss seem to be minimal though the reverse current > >>so it is acceptable. > >> > >>But what do people here think? > >> > >> > >> > > > >It's a horrible circuit! > Interesting circuit!
Yes, but is has room for improvement
On Friday, 30 September 2022 at 01:55:04 UTC+3, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:43:33 -0700 (PDT), "sonnic...@gmail.com" > <sonnic...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >Hi all > > > >I am playing around with a solar lamp, pretty simple like this > >https://www.pinterest.com/pin/540150549038731182/ > > > >However I do not (yet) have D2. > > > >D1 in my case is a Schottky 1N5818, and my battery 7.2V > >I am surprised how much reverse current I can get through the diode. Without the solar cell, it does not turn on. There is enough current through D1 to the transistor to turn the whole thing off. > >With the solar panel on it works as expected. > >D2 will solve my issue, but I am also thinking that not completely as it will still get current through reverse D1 and forward D2. > > > >I made a test - Schottky diode 1N5818 -> 2K2 resistor -> white LED. > >With the diode in reverse the current is 3uA, just enough to get a weak blue shade of the LED. > > > >Back to my solar lamp. It works with the solar cell so I do not have a big issue. There is 10 days to full moon then I will see the result of that. > >But I could also just a classic 1N400x diode, which should not have that much reverse current. > >In the same test I get no reverse current. > > > >The idea of D1 as a Schottky is to get most power from the solar panel. My loss seem to be minimal though the reverse current so it is acceptable. > > > >But what do people here think? > > > > > > > It's a horrible circuit!
It is simple and cheap, and it works, but is has room for improvements This the improvements it actually is not that bad
On 29/09/2022 23:54, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:43:33 -0700 (PDT), "sonnic...@gmail.com" > <sonnichjensen@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi all >> >> I am playing around with a solar lamp, pretty simple like this >> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/540150549038731182/ >> >> However I do not (yet) have D2. >> >> D1 in my case is a Schottky 1N5818, and my battery 7.2V >> I am surprised how much reverse current I can get through the diode. Without the solar cell, it does not turn on. There is enough current through D1 to the transistor to turn the whole thing off. >> With the solar panel on it works as expected. >> D2 will solve my issue, but I am also thinking that not completely as it will still get current through reverse D1 and forward D2. >> >> I made a test - Schottky diode 1N5818 -> 2K2 resistor -> white LED. >> With the diode in reverse the current is 3uA, just enough to get a weak blue shade of the LED. >> >> Back to my solar lamp. It works with the solar cell so I do not have a big issue. There is 10 days to full moon then I will see the result of that. >> But I could also just a classic 1N400x diode, which should not have that much reverse current. >> In the same test I get no reverse current. >> >> The idea of D1 as a Schottky is to get most power from the solar panel. My loss seem to be minimal though the reverse current so it is acceptable. >> >> But what do people here think? > > It's a horrible circuit! >
That may be but it is just about the simplest one that a teenager today might still be able to build from first principles and a scrap box. Having the ability to fine tune the light level where it comes on would be nice to add. Commercial ones assume a low latitude and come on during the long twilight of UK summer evenings fading out before it gets properly dark! They die horribly every winter if left outdoors. The choice of battery voltage is too low for a white LED though. A 4.8v battery and a nominal 6v solar panel would be a much better choice. R1, R2 are bit low though assuming transistors with a gain of at least 100 and 50mA drive current you can get away with R1 = 220k, R2 = 2.2k. (and 5x higher for a 10mA drive current) The better cheapest designs are along the lines of a Joule thief using a single cell. They all turn on far too soon in the UK though. -- Regards, Martin Brown
On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 16:50:25 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

>On 29/09/2022 23:54, John Larkin wrote: >> On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:43:33 -0700 (PDT), "sonnic...@gmail.com" >> <sonnichjensen@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi all >>> >>> I am playing around with a solar lamp, pretty simple like this >>> https://www.pinterest.com/pin/540150549038731182/ >>> >>> However I do not (yet) have D2. >>> >>> D1 in my case is a Schottky 1N5818, and my battery 7.2V >>> I am surprised how much reverse current I can get through the diode. Without the solar cell, it does not turn on. There is enough current through D1 to the transistor to turn the whole thing off. >>> With the solar panel on it works as expected. >>> D2 will solve my issue, but I am also thinking that not completely as it will still get current through reverse D1 and forward D2. >>> >>> I made a test - Schottky diode 1N5818 -> 2K2 resistor -> white LED. >>> With the diode in reverse the current is 3uA, just enough to get a weak blue shade of the LED. >>> >>> Back to my solar lamp. It works with the solar cell so I do not have a big issue. There is 10 days to full moon then I will see the result of that. >>> But I could also just a classic 1N400x diode, which should not have that much reverse current. >>> In the same test I get no reverse current. >>> >>> The idea of D1 as a Schottky is to get most power from the solar panel. My loss seem to be minimal though the reverse current so it is acceptable. >>> >>> But what do people here think? >> >> It's a horrible circuit! >> > >That may be but it is just about the simplest one that a teenager today >might still be able to build from first principles and a scrap box.
A teenager who can't do math.
> >Having the ability to fine tune the light level where it comes on would >be nice to add.
Yeah. Nothing defines the LED current.
> >Commercial ones assume a low latitude and come on during the long >twilight of UK summer evenings fading out before it gets properly dark! >They die horribly every winter if left outdoors. > >The choice of battery voltage is too low for a white LED though. A 4.8v >battery and a nominal 6v solar panel would be a much better choice. > >R1, R2 are bit low though assuming transistors with a gain of at least >100 and 50mA drive current you can get away with R1 = 220k, R2 = 2.2k. >(and 5x higher for a 10mA drive current)
Lots of wasted energy.
> >The better cheapest designs are along the lines of a Joule thief using a >single cell. They all turn on far too soon in the UK though.
On Friday, 30 September 2022 at 01:35:05 UTC+3, John S wrote:
> On 9/29/2022 2:43 PM, sonnic...@gmail.com wrote: > > Hi all > > > > I am playing around with a solar lamp, pretty simple like this > > https://www.pinterest.com/pin/540150549038731182/ > > > > However I do not (yet) have D2. > > > > D1 in my case is a Schottky 1N5818, and my battery 7.2V > > I am surprised how much reverse current I can get through the diode. Without the solar cell, it does not turn on. There is enough current through D1 to the transistor to turn the whole thing off. > > With the solar panel on it works as expected. > > D2 will solve my issue, but I am also thinking that not completely as it will still get current through reverse D1 and forward D2. > > > > I made a test - Schottky diode 1N5818 -> 2K2 resistor -> white LED. > > With the diode in reverse the current is 3uA, just enough to get a weak blue shade of the LED. > > > > Back to my solar lamp. It works with the solar cell so I do not have a big issue. There is 10 days to full moon then I will see the result of that. > > But I could also just a classic 1N400x diode, which should not have that much reverse current. > > In the same test I get no reverse current. > > > > The idea of D1 as a Schottky is to get most power from the solar panel. My loss seem to be minimal though the reverse current so it is acceptable. > > > > But what do people here think? > > > I think you could use a FET as a low-loss diode in place of D1.
Hi I looked into and played around with it, and it works for power consumption units. However for solar units, or units with a power source on both sides it does not work. I did found that during the night with colder temperature the leak current is small (~5uA for 1N5818/9) and having the resistor for the shut-down transistor at 470K I have no problems. Read more here: https://www.rs20.net/w/2013/02/using-mosfets-as-blocking-diodes-reverse-polarity-protection/