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Bit of electronics for a change, circuits, chips! yummy jummy!

Started by Jan Panteltje August 31, 2022
Bit of electronics for a change, 800V automobile systems cicuits
 https://www.electronicdesign.com/markets/automotive/article/21249715/power-integrations-whats-driving-evs-to-higher-battery-voltages
   What's Driving EVs to Higher Battery Voltages?
   Electric-vehicle makers are turning to 800-V systems to solve range and charging time issues that have created barriers with consumers and slowed the rollout of EVs.
   Here's how they work.

Circuits!! Chips!!!
been so long....

On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 4:16:54 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> Bit of electronics for a change, 800V automobile systems cicuits > https://www.electronicdesign.com/markets/automotive/article/21249715/power-integrations-whats-driving-evs-to-higher-battery-voltages > What's Driving EVs to Higher Battery Voltages? > Electric-vehicle makers are turning to 800-V systems to solve range and charging time issues that have created barriers with consumers and slowed the rollout of EVs. > Here's how they work. > > Circuits!! Chips!!! > been so long....
Yeah, typical magazine type article. 800V batteries require 800V chargers. There is a lot of work on making large improvements in the batteries themselves to allow faster charging times. That will be much more significant than the marginal improvements from an 800V system. Yes, I'm looking forward to the improvements in charging times as my car charges from a 120V outlet, and that is perfectly ok. -- Rick C. - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On 31/08/2022 09:12, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> Bit of electronics for a change, 800V automobile systems cicuits > https://www.electronicdesign.com/markets/automotive/article/21249715/power-integrations-whats-driving-evs-to-higher-battery-voltages > What's Driving EVs to Higher Battery Voltages? > Electric-vehicle makers are turning to 800-V systems to solve range and charging time issues that have created barriers with consumers and slowed the rollout of EVs. > Here's how they work. > > Circuits!! Chips!!! > been so long.... >
800V @300A for the Porche.. And the cable thickness is..... -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
On 8/31/2022 6:00 AM, TTman wrote:
> On 31/08/2022 09:12, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> Bit of electronics for a change, 800V automobile systems cicuits >> https://www.electronicdesign.com/markets/automotive/article/21249715/power-integrations-whats-driving-evs-to-higher-battery-voltages >>     What's Driving EVs to Higher Battery Voltages? >>     Electric-vehicle makers are turning to 800-V systems to solve >> range and charging time issues that have created barriers with >> consumers and slowed the rollout of EVs. >>     Here's how they work. >> >> Circuits!! Chips!!! >> been so long.... >> > 800V @300A for the Porche.. And the cable thickness is..... > > >
This part is contradictory,"As the motor operating voltage increases for a given input power, it reduces the input RMS current and, therefore, the stator winding copper losses. Losses are typically reduced by a factor of 4 using an 800- versus a 400-V supply. This offers the opportunity to reduce the copper winding wire diameter,"   So, which are they going to do, reduce copper losses or reduce the copper winding wire diameter? Yea, they can probably do a compromise between the two.                                    Mikek
On 2022-08-31 14:07, amdx wrote:
> On 8/31/2022 6:00 AM, TTman wrote: >> On 31/08/2022 09:12, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>> Bit of electronics for a change, 800V automobile systems cicuits >>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/markets/automotive/article/21249715/power-integrations-whats-driving-evs-to-higher-battery-voltages >>> >>>
What's Driving EVs to Higher Battery Voltages?
>>> Electric-vehicle makers are turning to 800-V systems to solve >>> range and charging time issues that have created barriers with >>> consumers and slowed the rollout of EVs. Here's how they work. >>> >>> Circuits!! Chips!!! been so long.... >>> >> 800V @300A for the Porche.. And the cable thickness is..... >> >> >> > This part is contradictory,"As the motor operating voltage increases > for a given input power, it reduces the input RMS current and, > therefore, the stator winding copper losses. Losses are typically > reduced by a factor of 4 using an 800- versus a 400-V supply. This > offers the opportunity to reduce the copper winding wire diameter," > So, which are they going to do, reduce copper losses or reduce the > copper winding wire diameter? Yea, they can probably do a compromise > between the two. Mikek
IIRC, to first order, for a given copper volume, the working voltage of a motor does not affect its power or efficiency. At low voltages, it will have few turns of thick wire, and at high voltages, many turns of thin wire. The devil is in the details though. Jeroen Belleman
Jeroen Belleman wrote:
> On 2022-08-31 14:07, amdx wrote: >> On 8/31/2022 6:00 AM, TTman wrote: >>> On 31/08/2022 09:12, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>> Bit of electronics for a change, 800V automobile systems cicuits >>>> https://www.electronicdesign.com/markets/automotive/article/21249715/power-integrations-whats-driving-evs-to-higher-battery-voltages >>>> >>>> >>>> > What's Driving EVs to Higher Battery Voltages? >>>> Electric-vehicle makers are turning to 800-V systems to solve >>>> range and charging time issues that have created barriers with >>>> consumers and slowed the rollout of EVs. Here's how they work. >>>> >>>> Circuits!! Chips!!! been so long.... >>>> >>> 800V @300A for the Porche.. And the cable thickness is..... >>> >>> >>> >> This part is contradictory,"As the motor operating voltage increases >> for a given input power, it reduces the input RMS current and, >> therefore, the stator winding copper losses. Losses are typically >> reduced by a factor of 4 using an 800- versus a 400-V supply. This >> offers the opportunity to reduce the copper winding wire diameter," >> So, which are they going to do, reduce copper losses or reduce the >> copper winding wire diameter? Yea, they can probably do a compromise >> between the two. Mikek > > IIRC, to first order, for a given copper volume, the working voltage > of a motor does not affect its power or efficiency. At low voltages, > it will have few turns of thick wire, and at high voltages, many turns > of thin wire. The devil is in the details though. > > Jeroen Belleman
Yup. There are skin effect things at high speed and thick copper, and insulation things at high voltage. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 3:41:19 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 4:16:54 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote: > > Bit of electronics for a change, 800V automobile systems cicuits > > https://www.electronicdesign.com/markets/automotive/article/21249715/power-integrations-whats-driving-evs-to-higher-battery-voltages > > What's Driving EVs to Higher Battery Voltages? > > Electric-vehicle makers are turning to 800-V systems to solve range and charging time issues that have created barriers with consumers and slowed the rollout of EVs. > > Here's how they work. > > > > Circuits!! Chips!!! > > been so long.... > Yeah, typical magazine type article. 800V batteries require 800V chargers. > > There is a lot of work on making large improvements in the batteries themselves to allow faster charging times. That will be much more significant than the marginal improvements from an 800V system. > > Yes, I'm looking forward to the improvements in charging times as my car charges from a 120V outlet, and that is perfectly ok.
My Leaf will have two (or may be three) charging plugs, running at the same time.
On 08/31/2022 05:00 AM, TTman wrote:
> On 31/08/2022 09:12, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> Bit of electronics for a change, 800V automobile systems cicuits >> >> https://www.electronicdesign.com/markets/automotive/article/21249715/power-integrations-whats-driving-evs-to-higher-battery-voltages >> >> What's Driving EVs to Higher Battery Voltages? >> Electric-vehicle makers are turning to 800-V systems to solve >> range and charging time issues that have created barriers with >> consumers and slowed the rollout of EVs. >> Here's how they work. >> >> Circuits!! Chips!!! >> been so long.... >> > 800V @300A for the Porche.. And the cable thickness is..... > > >
Big... For a short run #1 or 1/0 welding cable should do it. I briefly worked for the Penn Central, a railroad company rapidly going bankrupt. The diesel electric locomotives had DC traction motors. iirc they were 700A at 500VDC.
On a sunny day (Wed, 31 Aug 2022 03:41:13 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
<6db303e5-2c40-4559-ab4d-6911e4d13159n@googlegroups.com>:

>On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 4:16:54 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> Bit of electronics for a change, 800V automobile systems cicuits >> >> https://www.electronicdesign.com/markets/automotive/article/21249715/power-integrations-whats-driving-evs-to-higher-battery-voltages >> What's Driving EVs to Higher Battery Voltages? >> Electric-vehicle makers are turning to 800-V systems to solve range and charging time issues that have created barriers with >> consumers and slowed the rollout of EVs. >> Here's how they work. >> >> Circuits!! Chips!!! >> been so long.... > >Yeah, typical magazine type article. 800V batteries require 800V chargers. > >There is a lot of work on making large improvements in the batteries themselves to allow faster charging times. That will be >much more significant than the marginal improvements from an 800V system.
You missed the advantage that power losses go down quadratic with voltage going up? Important for the motors.
>Yes, I'm looking forward to the improvements in charging times as my car charges from a 120V outlet, and that is perfectly ok.
Well, I use the bike here to do shopping now, runs on some pizza and chocolate etc.. Super market is just half an hour biking away. Charging time? Just had my pizza in < 30 minutes. Maybe when Musk survives twittering then Tesla will go to 800 V too? Or are they there already?
On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 08:12:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Bit of electronics for a change, 800V automobile systems cicuits > https://www.electronicdesign.com/markets/automotive/article/21249715/power-integrations-whats-driving-evs-to-higher-battery-voltages > What's Driving EVs to Higher Battery Voltages? > Electric-vehicle makers are turning to 800-V systems to solve range and charging time issues that have created barriers with consumers and slowed the rollout of EVs. > Here's how they work. > >Circuits!! Chips!!! >been so long....
That's an ad, not an article, and it's full of annoying popups and 33 cookies. Motor losses reduced by a factor of 4 at 800 volts, and using smaller motors at 800 volts, is absurd. And they suggest that a window winder motor will run at 800 volts.