interviewing

On 4/13/2022 6:44 PM, Rich S wrote:
> I havent interviewed in a long while, but my
> simple point is, do they show any passion
> or enthusiasm for the job. That, alone,
> seemed rare.  If they asked a lot of on-point
> questions - no matter how naive - that was
> usually a very good indicator,,

Agreed.

"Synthetic" problems are likely not a good indicator
of how they will approach the *real* "work".

Like hypotheticals about wombats crossing roadways...
(unless you're particularly fond of wombats, how much
are you going to invest in exploring that problem space?)

On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 18:44:26 -0700 (PDT), Rich S
<richsulinengineer@gmail.com> wrote:

>I havent interviewed in a long while, but my
>simple point is, do they show any passion
>or enthusiasm for the job. That, alone,
>seemed rare.  If they asked a lot of on-point
>questions - no matter how naive - that was 
>usually a very good indicator,,
>regards, Rich S.

Yes !   Attitude and passion counts a LOT !

boB

On 13/04/2022 21:02, RichD wrote:
> When you interview job candidates, you pose standard
> problems, of circuits, PSpice, maybe Mathcad, etc.
> Textbook stuff, you expect he knows, reviewing his resume.
> 
> Microsoft and Google are famous for posing brain twisters,
> stuff "outside the book" (if any exists, nowadays with the net).
> Do you do this?  The obvious idea is to test for originality.

Most regular interviewers have their own favourite pet questions.

Discussing the right answers online would defeat the object so they 
don't stay useable for long in this age of everything on social media.

How many zeroes does 100! have in its decimal representation is one such 
that has been popular in recent years.

> How much weight do you place on the responses?

Watching how they approach an unfamiliar problem can be a sufficient 
guide to do they have what it takes. Engineering can get away with an 
answer that whilst not exactly right is "good enough" for practical 
purposes.

A pure mathematics course would expect the right answer (and quickly).

You have to know what characteristics you are recruiting for to pick the 
right test question(s) for the position if you are playing this game.

Whether the individual will fit in with the team is often much more 
important than technical prowess (provided that is adequate).

Unless that is you enjoy herding cats (something software engineering 
management has been compared with - more than our fair share of divas).

-- 
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 13/04/2022 21:02, RichD wrote:
> When you interview job candidates, you pose standard
> problems, of circuits, PSpice, maybe Mathcad, etc.
> Textbook stuff, you expect he knows, reviewing his resume.
> 
> Microsoft and Google are famous for posing brain twisters,
> stuff "outside the book" (if any exists, nowadays with the net).
> Do you do this?  The obvious idea is to test for originality.
> How much weight do you place on the responses?
> 
> --
> Rich

For a fairly junior post, probably out of university...

Non-inverting op-amp circuit with feedback from 10k and 1k divider on 
output with the 1k to ground.  What's the gain?  Many will say 10.

Inverting op-amp, 1k input, 10k feedback.  What's the gain.  Many will 
say 10 instead of -10.

Make a two input Xor from 2 input Nand gates.  Most can do it with 5, 
some with 4.

Write a bit of generic code to calculate a square root.

What temperature does solder melt at?  This one's interesting, most 
don't know of course, but some can't even make a guess, and even if the 
guess is wildly wrong the reasoning can be good.

And if they can, bring something along they've done before.

[I remember the first proper interview I had when I was eighteen.  It 
was for a technical job at the BBC and there was an interview panel of 
IIRC four people.  They showed me a small PCB and asked me what it was. 
  From the 741 op-amp and the fairly large value capacitors I deduced 
that it was probably a low power audio amplifier.  Their notes just said 
"circuit board".  They then handed me a resistor which I told them was a 
4k7 5% 1/4 watt resistor (I'd been doing PCB assembly jobs and didn't 
really need to think).  Their notes just said "resistor".

Yes, completely non-technical people interviewing for a technical job.]


-- 
Cheers
Clive

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 08:51:50 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

>On 13/04/2022 21:02, RichD wrote:
>> When you interview job candidates, you pose standard
>> problems, of circuits, PSpice, maybe Mathcad, etc.
>> Textbook stuff, you expect he knows, reviewing his resume.
>> 
>> Microsoft and Google are famous for posing brain twisters,
>> stuff "outside the book" (if any exists, nowadays with the net).
>> Do you do this?  The obvious idea is to test for originality.
>
>Most regular interviewers have their own favourite pet questions.
>
>Discussing the right answers online would defeat the object so they 
>don't stay useable for long in this age of everything on social media.
>
>How many zeroes does 100! have in its decimal representation is one such 
>that has been popular in recent years.
>
>> How much weight do you place on the responses?
>
>Watching how they approach an unfamiliar problem can be a sufficient 
>guide to do they have what it takes. Engineering can get away with an 
>answer that whilst not exactly right is "good enough" for practical 
>purposes.
>
>A pure mathematics course would expect the right answer (and quickly).
>
>You have to know what characteristics you are recruiting for to pick the 
>right test question(s) for the position if you are playing this game.
>
>Whether the individual will fit in with the team is often much more 
>important than technical prowess (provided that is adequate).
>
>Unless that is you enjoy herding cats (something software engineering 
>management has been compared with - more than our fair share of divas).


Puzzles, especially math puzzles, tell a small part about a person's
prospect as a design engineer. Puzzles are an easy thing for HR folks
to use. 

To find out how someone will work with your design team, just do it.



-- 

I yam what I yam - Popeye

On 4/14/2022 3:05 AM, Clive Arthur wrote:
> And if they can, bring something along they've done before.

But, this turns the interview around and lets them control the narrative
instead of letting you drive it.  Unless you have some experience with that
product or application domain, you're largely at their mercy (BS factor).

I've also seen it backfire spectacularly on the applicant!  In one
case, an engineer brought some schematics and source code that "he'd"
created.  As I happened to be very familiar with the product involved,
he was beyond chagrin when I asked him what part of the project
"Bob Jackadizzledoo" (bogus name designed to represent the oddness of
the REAL author's name) had done (Ans:  every item that the applicant
was submitting as "his own").

Unfortunately, it doubly backfired on the *employer* as I told them of
this -- as well as placing some "personal calls" to "Bob J" for an
off-the-record appraisal of the applicant's past work (something
that HR can't legally do to the degree that *I* can) -- and they hired
the guy, anyway.

[He turned out to be an 18 month disaster!  Only quitting when he had
to "produce" (literally, the day his design was due to be completed)]

On 14/04/2022 17:24, Don Y wrote:
> On 4/14/2022 3:05 AM, Clive Arthur wrote:
>> And if they can, bring something along they've done before.
> 
> But, this turns the interview around and lets them control the narrative
> instead of letting you drive it.  Unless you have some experience with that
> product or application domain, you're largely at their mercy (BS factor).
> 
> I've also seen it backfire spectacularly on the applicant!  In one
> case, an engineer brought some schematics and source code that "he'd"
> created.  As I happened to be very familiar with the product involved,
> he was beyond chagrin when I asked him what part of the project
> "Bob Jackadizzledoo" (bogus name designed to represent the oddness of
> the REAL author's name) had done (Ans:  every item that the applicant
> was submitting as "his own").
> 
> Unfortunately, it doubly backfired on the *employer* as I told them of
> this -- as well as placing some "personal calls" to "Bob J" for an
> off-the-record appraisal of the applicant's past work (something
> that HR can't legally do to the degree that *I* can) -- and they hired
> the guy, anyway.
> 
> [He turned out to be an 18 month disaster!  Only quitting when he had
> to "produce" (literally, the day his design was due to be completed)]

I interviewed a guy for a technician/wireman job.  He was shy, you might 
say socially inept, but the things he brought along were just lovely. 
Nothing that was going to change the world - for example a variable 
power supply from a magazine design - but just so well put together.

He got the job.  After a few weeks he came out of his shell and was very 
well liked by all.  He took pride in his work.

Sadly, after a few years, Parkinson's got him.  RIP Trevor.

-- 
Cheers
Clive

On 4/14/2022 3:28 PM, Clive Arthur wrote:
> On 14/04/2022 17:24, Don Y wrote:

>> [He turned out to be an 18 month disaster!  Only quitting when he had
>> to "produce" (literally, the day his design was due to be completed)]
> 
> I interviewed a guy for a technician/wireman job.  He was shy, you might say 
> socially inept, but the things he brought along were just lovely. Nothing that 
> was going to change the world - for example a variable power supply from a 
> magazine design - but just so well put together.

I've never seen an applicant bring anything (other than "paper") to an
interview.  Many show up empty handed.  Others with schematics or some
source code listings, etc.

Most of the projects/products that I've designed are either too large
or too expensive to bring along for show-and-tell.  Photographs, design
documents, etc. have to suffice.

When I first started on my own, I used to bring "presentations" (talking
papers) describing my past projects/products.  I quickly learned that was
unnecessary -- if someone wanted to talk to me, they'd largely made up
their mind to hire me (based on a referral).

So, meeting was more an opportunity to evaluate personalities, etc.  (I've
NOT met many of the clients I've had, over the yeaars!)  And, for me, an
opportunity to explore their problem to decide if it was something I'd be
interested in taking on (I'm always in search of a "new" learning experience;
no desire to rehash something I've already done -- that's just "a job"!  :> )

> He got the job.  After a few weeks he came out of his shell and was very well 
> liked by all.  He took pride in his work.

I've met all kinds.  AFAICT, "ability" had very little correlation with other
personality factors.  But, *process* was a big predicter of success.

> Sadly, after a few years, Parkinson's got him.  RIP Trevor.

Nasty disease.  A friend currently battling it.  Sadly, largely in denial
(e.g., thinking if she changes her diet things will magically get better, etc.)

ALS is considerably worse.  Really hard to watch and know there's damn near
nothing you can *do* to help/make it better.

Both suck in that they are slow marches downhill... tomorrow will be WORSE
than today...  <frown>

> 
> BITD I got asked a couple of relatively memorable ones. Interviewing at 
> HP Labs in Palo Alto, they asked me to derive the Fresnel formulae for 
> reflection of a plane wave at a dielectric interface. 
> 

As to being the interviewee, mine cannot compare to that! ;-)

The one "extreme" experience; I was handed a multipage
exam, was like taking my college ACTs all over again.
It took two hours to complete, involved all kinds of math, physics,
, written challenges. And picking specs out of their databooks.
They called it the "Howard Hughes Test"
I never did figure out why, Did HH grill his  candidates that way?

I must of done OK.. they hired me.
-=RS

On April 14, Clive Arthur wrote:
>> When you interview job candidates, you pose standard 
>> problems, of circuits, PSpice, maybe Mathcad, etc. 
>> Textbook stuff, you expect he knows,  
>> Microsoft and Google are famous for posing brain twisters, 
>> stuff "outside the book" (if any exists, nowadays with the net). 
>> Do you do this? The obvious idea is to test for originality. 
>> How much weight do you place on the responses? 
>
> Write a bit of generic code to calculate a square root. 

That's what I have in mind.  

Probably the applicant has never done this, now he's on his own,
he has to think his way through a problem.  That's what you 
watch - not the answer, but his thinking.
 
> What temperature does solder melt at? This one's interesting, most 
> don't know of course, but some can't even make a guess, and even if the 
> guess is wildly wrong the reasoning can be good. 

OK, I'll bite - how does one 'reason' one's way to a melting point?
Mentally solve Schrodinger's equation, given the molecular structure of solder?

>They showed me a small PCB and asked me what it was.
> From the 741 op-amp and the fairly large value capacitors I deduced
> that it was probably a low power audio amplifier. Their notes just said
> "circuit board". 
> They then handed me a resistor which I told them was a 
> 4k7 5% 1/4 watt resistor.  Their notes just said "resistor". 

hmmm... did any candidate fail this exam?

--
Rich