bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:> On 4/13/2022 5:11 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote: >> RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. >>> The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. >>> >>> Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, >>> that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight calculation? >>> >>> I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations - >>> >>> -- >>> Rich >> >> electric motors have a far more useful torque curve too. That's why train >> locomotives are not direct drive in the civilized world but run a >> generator and traction motors. If you want to pickup speed fast, there's >> nothing better. If you're hauling freight, and need starting torque, >> there's also still nothing better than an electric motor. > > Incidentally there were some torque-converter driven trainsets in the US > for niche applications e.g. > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd_Rail_Diesel_Car#Design> > > Basically a city bus on rails. > > The later SPV-2000 was similar but an unreliable and difficult to > service design it seems: > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd_SPV-2000>What odd machines. I recall diesel operated light duty railcars in Ireland about 15 years ago. They made strangest sounds when operating. I think they were made in Korea. For the intended use of moving light weight trains around, I guess the worked fine. The north american train standard are unlike anywhere else in the world except maybe russia, so the entire concept of a fast light weight train just isn't happening here. Essentially passenger trains have to survive a very small crash with a freight train, and we have the biggest, heaviest railcars. They will obliterate any trains made anywhere with the exception of russia.> When AC traction motors were still quite large jackshaft-driven > locomotives were pretty cool-looking: > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackshaft_(locomotive)#/media/File:PRR_DD1_running_gear.jpg>Ha, never seen that before, but it makes sense as that's the only way they made large motors back then. I'm not completely sure why though. Were there no motors with long skinny rotors at all, sort of like a modern servo motor where minimal inertia is key?
Tesla is fast
Started by ●April 13, 2022
Reply by ●April 13, 20222022-04-13
Reply by ●April 13, 20222022-04-13
On 4/13/2022 8:57 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 12:52:41 -0700 (PDT), RichD > <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. > > When they are not in line to get to a charging station. > >> The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. > > Some people enjoy alternating between max accel and max decel. > > >Can't recall ever lining up for one. Mostly around here they're not used very much, not that there's a shortage of EVs but most people charge at home. Businesses and public parking lots and state parks etc. often have them but don't tend to be able to figure out how to set the pricing on them or particularly care to they tend to be set at like $0 or 50 cents a kWh, depending, totally divorced from the price of gas or electricity for that matter. I think they tend to install them because they get a tax credit or legislation mandates it in the case of public facilities but nobody really understands the tech once it's installed or knows how to make any money off it or cares to figure out how, only Tesla's network seems to have accomplished that in a meaningful way.
Reply by ●April 13, 20222022-04-13
On 14/4/22 8:43 am, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:> torsdag den 14. april 2022 kl. 00.38.16 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee: >> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 2:52:18 PM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote: >>> onsdag den 13. april 2022 kl. 23.02.08 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee: >>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 12:52:45 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote: >>>>> Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. >>>>> The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. >>>>> >>>>> Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, >>>>> that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight calculation? >>>>> >>>>> I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations - >>>> For one thing, it's easier to install and control multiple motors. For maximum performance, you can put one (or more) motor per wheel, which is hard to do with ICE. >>> And electric motors can usually handle quite a lot of extra power short term >> I am thinking in terms of trucking. Perhaps 18 motors for 18 wheelers. Smaller distributed motors might work better for heavy cargo. > > trucks are not fast, and most of the cargo is going to be batteries ... >Someone should tell <https://www.januselectric.com.au/> <https://bigrigs.com.au/index.php/2021/04/26/sydney-to-brisbane-for-525-in-electric-converted-prime-mover/> Granted it's a limited roll-out, but you have to start somewhere. They can convert an existing prime mover in under a week. CH
Reply by ●April 14, 20222022-04-14
RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote in news:7abd9443-de36-42ca-8e8a-1eb0430058b5n@googlegroups.com:> Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. > The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. > > Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, > that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight > calculation? > > I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations - > > -- > Rich >Just wait until battery tech gets better. You'll see 0 to 60 times of less than 2 seconds. Except now we are heading into the "no longer connected to the pavement" area. They will need an optical sensor that looks at the road and at the wheel spin and keeps the car from breaking the tires loose at max acceleration. Need a big 100 foot long plate of hot rubber ensconsed dragway surface too. Has anyone fashioned a Tesla motor powered dragster yet? Carbon fiber. Remember the first corbon comp hulls and Kevlar sails in the America's Cup Race? It was also a ground breaking shift.
Reply by ●April 14, 20222022-04-14
Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote in news:a42b2143-d5b6-4eec-a2a1-da348c1ee3aen@googlegroups.com:> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 12:52:45 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote: >> Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. >> The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. >> >> Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, >> that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight >> calculation? >> >> I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations - > > For one thing, it's easier to install and control multiple motors. > For maximum performance, you can put one (or more) motor per > wheel, which is hard to do with ICE. > >For one thing you are being presumptuous... again. Not very bright. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjhGSy5pCJA>
Reply by ●April 14, 20222022-04-14
On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 8:34:47 PM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:> Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote in > news:a42b2143-d5b6-4eec...@googlegroups.com: > > On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 12:52:45 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote: > >> Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. > >> The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. > >> > >> Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, > >> that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight > >> calculation? > >> > >> I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations - > > > > For one thing, it's easier to install and control multiple motors. > > For maximum performance, you can put one (or more) motor per > > wheel, which is hard to do with ICE. > > > > > For one thing you are being presumptuous... again. Not very > bright. > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjhGSy5pCJA>If there is a will, there is a way. Well, but that's not it. The point of multiple motors is to be close to the wheels, without energy lost in transmission.
Reply by ●April 14, 20222022-04-14
On 4/13/2022 3:52 PM, RichD wrote:> Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. > The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal.Biggest engine is always better than anything there's no replacement for displacement.> Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, > that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight calculation? > > I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations -NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT VRRRRRROOMM BRRRRRRR> -- > Rich
Reply by ●April 14, 20222022-04-14
torsdag den 14. april 2022 kl. 03.16.52 UTC+2 skrev Clifford Heath:> On 14/4/22 8:43 am, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote: > > torsdag den 14. april 2022 kl. 00.38.16 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee: > >> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 2:52:18 PM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote: > >>> onsdag den 13. april 2022 kl. 23.02.08 UTC+2 skrev Ed Lee: > >>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 12:52:45 PM UTC-7, RichD wrote: > >>>>> Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. > >>>>> The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. > >>>>> > >>>>> Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, > >>>>> that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight calculation? > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations - > >>>> For one thing, it's easier to install and control multiple motors. For maximum performance, you can put one (or more) motor per wheel, which is hard to do with ICE. > >>> And electric motors can usually handle quite a lot of extra power short term > >> I am thinking in terms of trucking. Perhaps 18 motors for 18 wheelers. Smaller distributed motors might work better for heavy cargo. > > > > trucks are not fast, and most of the cargo is going to be batteries ... > > > Someone should tell <https://www.januselectric.com.au/> > > <https://bigrigs.com.au/index.php/2021/04/26/sydney-to-brisbane-for-525-in-electric-converted-prime-mover/> > > Granted it's a limited roll-out, but you have to start somewhere. > They can convert an existing prime mover in under a week.why not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Corporation
Reply by ●April 14, 20222022-04-14
torsdag den 14. april 2022 kl. 05.26.39 UTC+2 skrev DecadentLinux...@decadence.org:> RichD <r_dela...@yahoo.com> wrote in > news:7abd9443-de36-42ca...@googlegroups.com: > > Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. > > The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. > > > > Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, > > that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight > > calculation? > > > > I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations - > > > > -- > > Rich > > > Just wait until battery tech gets better. > You'll see 0 to 60 times of less than 2 seconds. Except now we are > heading into the "no longer connected to the pavement" area. > > They will need an optical sensor that looks at the road and at the > wheel spin and keeps the car from breaking the tires loose at max > acceleration. Need a big 100 foot long plate of hot rubber ensconsed > dragway surface too. > > Has anyone fashioned a Tesla motor powered dragster yet? Carbon > fiber.sure they make electric dragsters, https://youtu.be/9bxwQeKhYXQ?t=111 still twice the time and half the speed of ICE dragster records from nearly 40 years ago
Reply by ●April 14, 20222022-04-14
On 4/13/2022 9:15 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:> bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >> On 4/13/2022 5:11 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote: >>> RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> Today the electric cars are the quickest on the road. >>>> The classic petrol muscle cars are vying for the silver medal. >>>> >>>> Was it obvious to the designers, from day one, >>>> that this would be the case? Is it simply a power/weight calculation? >>>> >>>> I'm congenitally leery of simple explanations - >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Rich >>> >>> electric motors have a far more useful torque curve too. That's why train >>> locomotives are not direct drive in the civilized world but run a >>> generator and traction motors. If you want to pickup speed fast, there's >>> nothing better. If you're hauling freight, and need starting torque, >>> there's also still nothing better than an electric motor. >> >> Incidentally there were some torque-converter driven trainsets in the US >> for niche applications e.g. >> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd_Rail_Diesel_Car#Design> >> >> Basically a city bus on rails. >> >> The later SPV-2000 was similar but an unreliable and difficult to >> service design it seems: >> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd_SPV-2000> > > What odd machines. I recall diesel operated light duty railcars in Ireland about 15 years ago. > They made strangest sounds when operating. I think they were made in Korea. For the intended > use of moving light weight trains around, I guess the worked fine. The north american train > standard are unlike anywhere else in the world except maybe russia, so the entire concept of a > fast light weight train just isn't happening here. Essentially passenger trains have to survive > a very small crash with a freight train, and we have the biggest, heaviest railcars. They will > obliterate any trains made anywhere with the exception of russia.The FRA imposed some big-time regulation on passenger rail vehicle strength after WW2, yeah. I think those are _maybe_ getting finally relaxed a bit as of the past couple years? Not sure with respect to diesel rail cars on freight lines maybe I'm thinking of something else. It's too bad as light weight DRCs that could run alongside freight equipment would open up possibility of service on under-served routes like e.g. Worcester MA -> Providence, RI and Boston -> Nashua, NH (just as local examples I know of) where there's some demand but hard to make the numbers work either as a public service or commercial venture with heavy rail.>> When AC traction motors were still quite large jackshaft-driven >> locomotives were pretty cool-looking: >> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackshaft_(locomotive)#/media/File:PRR_DD1_running_gear.jpg> > > Ha, never seen that before, but it makes sense as that's the only way they made large motors > back then. I'm not completely sure why though. Were there no motors with long skinny rotors at > all, sort of like a modern servo motor where minimal inertia is key?Maybe, there were some DC motors that fit between the wheels then. The shafts on those in the pic are huge though, I think at the time around the turn of the century engineers were very conservative with this new technology and their main concern was ensuring they had enough torque hence the giant shafts. But there were many improvements in insulation, core material, bearings etc. from 1910-30 and the AC motor size decreased rapidly
