On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 6:37:39 AM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:> On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 3:17:47 AM UTC-5, boB wrote: > > On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 05:08:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje > > <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > >On a sunny day (Fri, 18 Feb 2022 19:08:51 -0800) it happened > > >jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in > > ><ion01hdrl7ff2on10...@4ax.com>: > > > > > >> > > >>https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/ > > > > > >That is why I use Lifepo4 type batteries when possible: > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery > > > > > Yes and even Tesla is starting to usw LiFePo4 in some of their cars. > It has nothing to do with fires. They are cheaper and don't use Cobalt, a material that is not so easy to come by. They still use nickel-cobalt-aluminum in the long range cars because it has a higher energy density. Neither battery chemistry has a problem with fire when compared to the highly dangerous gasoline powered vehicles.For gasoline cars, they only keep enough to drive in and out of the ship. For EV, they should use a small main battery for short distance driving and removable modules for long distance. Lithium batteries are safer with lower density.
scary video of battery fire
Started by ●February 18, 2022
Reply by ●February 19, 20222022-02-19
Reply by ●February 19, 20222022-02-19
On Fri, 18 Feb 2022 21:15:27 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:>On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/ > >It is video. It is fire. And, apparently, JL is scared of >a fire in mid-Atlantic. But, there's no known cause of the fire.Mid-Atlantic? Scared? -- I yam what I yam - Popeye
Reply by ●February 19, 20222022-02-19
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:54 +0000, Jeff Layman <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:>On 19/02/2022 03:08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> >> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/ > >I didn't get past the first paragraph. Quote "EV battery fires are >chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so >there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally >burns itself out." > >An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet >of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are >around 1000�C, perhaps 1200�C in some cases. That's not enough to melt >steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500�C, >which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of >combustion is entirely different too.What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out. A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don't explode. It's apparently not prudent to keep big lithium batteries indoors. Google images for 'tesla fire'. Often there's not much of the car left. -- I yam what I yam - Popeye
Reply by ●February 19, 20222022-02-19
On 2/18/2022 10:15 PM, whit3rd wrote:> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/ > > It is video. It is fire. And, apparently, JL is scared of > a fire in mid-Atlantic. But, there's no known cause of the fire.<https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/19/europe/greece-ferry-fire-intl/index.html> (I wonder if something the people ate was the cause of the fire?)
Reply by ●February 19, 20222022-02-19
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 10:24:09 AM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:54 +0000, Jeff Layman > <jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote: > > >On 19/02/2022 03:08, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > >> > >> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/ > > > >I didn't get past the first paragraph. Quote "EV battery fires are > >chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so > >there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally > >burns itself out." > > > >An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet > >of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are > >around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That's not enough to melt > >steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C, > >which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of > >combustion is entirely different too. > What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and > get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out. > > A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don't explode. > > It's apparently not prudent to keep big lithium batteries indoors. > > Google images for 'tesla fire'. Often there's not much of the car > left.Yeah, they have that in common with gasoline fires. A big difference is you can put out a lithium-ion battery fire by spraying water on it. Gasoline floats on water and spreads like... wildfire. You have to use special foams and such. Very hard to put out and very dangerous. Gasoline fires make lithium-ion battery fires look like no big deal in comparison. They also happen much less often, "traditional internal-combustion vehicles experience one fire for every 19 million miles traveled; for Teslas EVs, it's one fire for 205 million miles traveled." That's a factor of over 10 to 1! We had an accident on the DC beltway with a gasoline fire that was so hot they feared it took the temper out of the bridge girders over it. Gasoline fires are so hot, they heat material above the ignition temperature of gasoline, so even when you put out the fire, it can reignite. Noooo, gasoline fires are nothing to mess with. Very dangerous and hard to put out. That is what you were saying, right? -- Rick C. -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●February 19, 20222022-02-19
On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:24:09 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:54 +0000, Jeff Layman > <jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote: > > >On 19/02/2022 03:08, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: > >> > >> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/ > > > >I didn't get past the first paragraph. Quote "EV battery fires are > >chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so > >there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally > >burns itself out." > > > >An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet > >of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are > >around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That's not enough to melt > >steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C, > >which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of > >combustion is entirely different too. > What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and > get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out. > > A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don't explode.Very low power density per pound/kg.
Reply by ●February 19, 20222022-02-19
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 05:48:34 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:>l�rdag den 19. februar 2022 kl. 04.09.02 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com: >> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/ >> > >I thought you weren't scared of anything?I'm not, but I wouldn't like having my house or my children incinerated. But I'm interested in electrical things. -- I yam what I yam - Popeye
Reply by ●February 19, 20222022-02-19
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:28:49 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:>On 2/18/2022 10:15 PM, whit3rd wrote: >> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/ >> >> It is video. It is fire. And, apparently, JL is scared of >> a fire in mid-Atlantic. But, there's no known cause of the fire. > ><https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/19/europe/greece-ferry-fire-intl/index.html> > >(I wonder if something the people ate was the cause of the fire?)https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39137893/cargo-ship-fire-fueled-by-ev-batteries/ Sounds expensive. Best thing to do is probably sink the ship. -- I yam what I yam - Popeye
Reply by ●February 19, 20222022-02-19
On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 07:56:42 -0800 (PST), Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:>On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 7:24:09 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:04:54 +0000, Jeff Layman >> <jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >> >On 19/02/2022 03:08, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> >> >> >> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/ >> > >> >I didn't get past the first paragraph. Quote "EV battery fires are >> >chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so >> >there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally >> >burns itself out." >> > >> >An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet >> >of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are >> >around 1000�C, perhaps 1200�C in some cases. That's not enough to melt >> >steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500�C, >> >which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of >> >combustion is entirely different too. >> What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and >> get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out. >> >> A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don't explode. > >Very low power density per pound/kg.And the liquid electrolyte probably cools off small shorts until they open, before they spread. Aluminum caps are self-healing. Tantalums detonate. -- I yam what I yam - Popeye
Reply by ●February 19, 20222022-02-19
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 7:09:02 PM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/02/18/was-the-felicity-ace-fire-caused-by-electric-vehicle-batteries/ > > It is video. It is fire. And, apparently, JL is scared of > a fire in mid-Atlantic. But, there's no known cause of the fire.german automotive electrical systems are garbage. Surprised more of the transports don't catch on fire.
