Not actually a Hartley, bacause the Ls are not coupled. Version 4 SHEET 1 1220 836 WIRE 528 112 288 112 WIRE 288 144 288 112 WIRE 288 272 288 224 WIRE 528 288 528 112 WIRE 400 368 288 368 WIRE 480 368 400 368 WIRE 400 416 400 368 WIRE 288 528 288 368 WIRE 400 560 400 496 WIRE 432 560 400 560 WIRE 528 560 528 384 WIRE 528 560 496 560 WIRE 400 608 400 560 WIRE 528 656 528 560 WIRE 288 720 288 592 WIRE 400 720 400 688 WIRE 400 720 288 720 WIRE 400 816 400 720 WIRE 528 816 528 736 FLAG 288 272 0 FLAG 528 816 0 FLAG 400 816 0 SYMBOL voltage 288 128 R0 WINDOW 0 68 58 Left 2 WINDOW 3 59 97 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName Vd SYMATTR Value 2.5 SYMBOL mesfet 480 288 R0 WINDOW 0 86 36 Left 2 WINDOW 3 62 64 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName Z2 SYMATTR Value SAV541 SYMBOL ind 416 512 R180 WINDOW 0 70 75 Left 2 WINDOW 3 61 43 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName L1 SYMATTR Value 2.5n SYMBOL current 528 656 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName I1 SYMATTR Value 10m SYMBOL cap 272 528 R0 WINDOW 0 -59 14 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -61 49 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C1 SYMATTR Value 2.5p SYMBOL ind 416 704 R180 WINDOW 0 70 75 Left 2 WINDOW 3 62 41 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName L2 SYMATTR Value 2.5n SYMBOL cap 496 544 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C2 SYMATTR Value 5p TEXT -96 272 Left 2 !.tran 50n uic TEXT -232 368 Left 2 !.MODEL SAV541 NMF(vto=0.08, Beta=0.6,\n+ Lambda=0.07, Alpha=4 B=0.8, Pb=0.7,\n+ Cgs=0.997E-12, Cgd=0.176E-12, Rd=0.084,\n+ Rs=0.054, Kf=5e-11, Af=2) TEXT -144 152 Left 2 ;SAV-541 2L Oscillator TEXT -120 216 Left 2 ;JL Feb 1 2022 -- I yam what I yam - Popeye
strange oscillator
Started by ●February 1, 2022
Reply by ●February 1, 20222022-02-01
On 01/02/2022 3:27 pm, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> Not actually a Hartley, bacause the Ls are not coupled. > > Version 4 > SHEET 1 1220 836 > WIRE 528 112 288 112 > WIRE 288 144 288 112 > WIRE 288 272 288 224 > WIRE 528 288 528 112 > WIRE 400 368 288 368 > WIRE 480 368 400 368 > WIRE 400 416 400 368 > WIRE 288 528 288 368 > WIRE 400 560 400 496 > WIRE 432 560 400 560 > WIRE 528 560 528 384 > WIRE 528 560 496 560 > WIRE 400 608 400 560 > WIRE 528 656 528 560 > WIRE 288 720 288 592 > WIRE 400 720 400 688 > WIRE 400 720 288 720 > WIRE 400 816 400 720 > WIRE 528 816 528 736 > FLAG 288 272 0 > FLAG 528 816 0 > FLAG 400 816 0 > SYMBOL voltage 288 128 R0 > WINDOW 0 68 58 Left 2 > WINDOW 3 59 97 Left 2 > WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 > WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 > SYMATTR InstName Vd > SYMATTR Value 2.5 > SYMBOL mesfet 480 288 R0 > WINDOW 0 86 36 Left 2 > WINDOW 3 62 64 Left 2 > SYMATTR InstName Z2 > SYMATTR Value SAV541 > SYMBOL ind 416 512 R180 > WINDOW 0 70 75 Left 2 > WINDOW 3 61 43 Left 2 > SYMATTR InstName L1 > SYMATTR Value 2.5n > SYMBOL current 528 656 R0 > WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 > WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 > SYMATTR InstName I1 > SYMATTR Value 10m > SYMBOL cap 272 528 R0 > WINDOW 0 -59 14 Left 2 > WINDOW 3 -61 49 Left 2 > SYMATTR InstName C1 > SYMATTR Value 2.5p > SYMBOL ind 416 704 R180 > WINDOW 0 70 75 Left 2 > WINDOW 3 62 41 Left 2 > SYMATTR InstName L2 > SYMATTR Value 2.5n > SYMBOL cap 496 544 R90 > WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 > WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 > SYMATTR InstName C2 > SYMATTR Value 5p > TEXT -96 272 Left 2 !.tran 50n uic > TEXT -232 368 Left 2 !.MODEL SAV541 NMF(vto=0.08, Beta=0.6,\n+ > Lambda=0.07, Alpha=4 B=0.8, Pb=0.7,\n+ Cgs=0.997E-12, Cgd=0.176E-12, > Rd=0.084,\n+ Rs=0.054, Kf=5e-11, Af=2) > TEXT -144 152 Left 2 ;SAV-541 2L Oscillator > TEXT -120 216 Left 2 ;JL Feb 1 2022 > > > > >Yes, decades ago I built something similar using an NPN BJT at kHz frequencies. I used two molded chokes and had initially them loose coupled but was amazed that I could separate them or re-orient so there was no mutual couplling and still got oscillation. I think Irving Gottlieb described three types of Hartley in his Oscillator Handbook and this is one of his "type 2" Hartleys, there is no mutual coupling and the action is negative resistance. piglet
Reply by ●February 1, 20222022-02-01
piglet wrote:> On 01/02/2022 3:27 pm, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> Not actually a Hartley, bacause the Ls are not coupled. >> >> Version 4 >> SHEET 1 1220 836 >> WIRE 528 112 288 112 >> WIRE 288 144 288 112 >> WIRE 288 272 288 224 >> WIRE 528 288 528 112 >> WIRE 400 368 288 368 >> WIRE 480 368 400 368 >> WIRE 400 416 400 368 >> WIRE 288 528 288 368 >> WIRE 400 560 400 496 >> WIRE 432 560 400 560 >> WIRE 528 560 528 384 >> WIRE 528 560 496 560 >> WIRE 400 608 400 560 >> WIRE 528 656 528 560 >> WIRE 288 720 288 592 >> WIRE 400 720 400 688 >> WIRE 400 720 288 720 >> WIRE 400 816 400 720 >> WIRE 528 816 528 736 >> FLAG 288 272 0 >> FLAG 528 816 0 >> FLAG 400 816 0 >> SYMBOL voltage 288 128 R0 >> WINDOW 0 68 58 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 59 97 Left 2 >> WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 >> WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 >> SYMATTR InstName Vd >> SYMATTR Value 2.5 >> SYMBOL mesfet 480 288 R0 >> WINDOW 0 86 36 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 62 64 Left 2 >> SYMATTR InstName Z2 >> SYMATTR Value SAV541 >> SYMBOL ind 416 512 R180 >> WINDOW 0 70 75 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 61 43 Left 2 >> SYMATTR InstName L1 >> SYMATTR Value 2.5n >> SYMBOL current 528 656 R0 >> WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 >> WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 >> SYMATTR InstName I1 >> SYMATTR Value 10m >> SYMBOL cap 272 528 R0 >> WINDOW 0 -59 14 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 -61 49 Left 2 >> SYMATTR InstName C1 >> SYMATTR Value 2.5p >> SYMBOL ind 416 704 R180 >> WINDOW 0 70 75 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 62 41 Left 2 >> SYMATTR InstName L2 >> SYMATTR Value 2.5n >> SYMBOL cap 496 544 R90 >> WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 >> WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 >> SYMATTR InstName C2 >> SYMATTR Value 5p >> TEXT -96 272 Left 2 !.tran 50n uic >> TEXT -232 368 Left 2 !.MODEL SAV541 NMF(vto=0.08, Beta=0.6,\n+ >> Lambda=0.07, Alpha=4 B=0.8, Pb=0.7,\n+ Cgs=0.997E-12, Cgd=0.176E-12, >> Rd=0.084,\n+ Rs=0.054, Kf=5e-11, Af=2) >> TEXT -144 152 Left 2 ;SAV-541 2L Oscillator >> TEXT -120 216 Left 2 ;JL Feb 1 2022 >> >> >> >> >> > > Yes, decades ago I built something similar using an NPN BJT at kHz > frequencies. I used two molded chokes and had initially them loose > coupled but was amazed that I could separate them or re-orient so there > was no mutual couplling and still got oscillation. > > I think Irving Gottlieb described three types of Hartley in his > Oscillator Handbook and this is one of his "type 2" Hartleys, there is > no mutual coupling and the action is negative resistance. > > piglet > > > With no coupling, it's a species of Colpitts--it's only the tank Q thatdoes the impedance transformation, with no help from the transformer action of the mutual inductance. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by ●February 1, 20222022-02-01
On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 10:59:09 -0500, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>piglet wrote: >> On 01/02/2022 3:27 pm, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> Not actually a Hartley, bacause the Ls are not coupled. >> >>> >> >> Yes, decades ago I built something similar using an NPN BJT at kHz >> frequencies. I used two molded chokes and had initially them loose >> coupled but was amazed that I could separate them or re-orient so there >> was no mutual couplling and still got oscillation. >> >> I think Irving Gottlieb described three types of Hartley in his >> Oscillator Handbook and this is one of his "type 2" Hartleys, there is >> no mutual coupling and the action is negative resistance. >> >> piglet >> >> >> With no coupling, it's a species of Colpitts--it's only the tank Q that >does the impedance transformation, with no help from the transformer >action of the mutual inductance. > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsI was just fooling around. What I really want is a 1.5 GHz oscillator with two antiphase outputs. A MMIC might be a good gain element. -- I yam what I yam - Popeye
Reply by ●February 1, 20222022-02-01
On 01/02/2022 3:47 pm, piglet wrote:> On 01/02/2022 3:27 pm, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> Not actually a Hartley, bacause the Ls are not coupled. >> >> Version 4 >> SHEET 1 1220 836 >> WIRE 528 112 288 112 >> WIRE 288 144 288 112 >> WIRE 288 272 288 224 >> WIRE 528 288 528 112 >> WIRE 400 368 288 368 >> WIRE 480 368 400 368 >> WIRE 400 416 400 368 >> WIRE 288 528 288 368 >> WIRE 400 560 400 496 >> WIRE 432 560 400 560 >> WIRE 528 560 528 384 >> WIRE 528 560 496 560 >> WIRE 400 608 400 560 >> WIRE 528 656 528 560 >> WIRE 288 720 288 592 >> WIRE 400 720 400 688 >> WIRE 400 720 288 720 >> WIRE 400 816 400 720 >> WIRE 528 816 528 736 >> FLAG 288 272 0 >> FLAG 528 816 0 >> FLAG 400 816 0 >> SYMBOL voltage 288 128 R0 >> WINDOW 0 68 58 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 59 97 Left 2 >> WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 >> WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 >> SYMATTR InstName Vd >> SYMATTR Value 2.5 >> SYMBOL mesfet 480 288 R0 >> WINDOW 0 86 36 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 62 64 Left 2 >> SYMATTR InstName Z2 >> SYMATTR Value SAV541 >> SYMBOL ind 416 512 R180 >> WINDOW 0 70 75 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 61 43 Left 2 >> SYMATTR InstName L1 >> SYMATTR Value 2.5n >> SYMBOL current 528 656 R0 >> WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 >> WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 >> SYMATTR InstName I1 >> SYMATTR Value 10m >> SYMBOL cap 272 528 R0 >> WINDOW 0 -59 14 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 -61 49 Left 2 >> SYMATTR InstName C1 >> SYMATTR Value 2.5p >> SYMBOL ind 416 704 R180 >> WINDOW 0 70 75 Left 2 >> WINDOW 3 62 41 Left 2 >> SYMATTR InstName L2 >> SYMATTR Value 2.5n >> SYMBOL cap 496 544 R90 >> WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 >> WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 >> SYMATTR InstName C2 >> SYMATTR Value 5p >> TEXT -96 272 Left 2 !.tran 50n uic >> TEXT -232 368 Left 2 !.MODEL SAV541 NMF(vto=0.08, Beta=0.6,\n+ >> Lambda=0.07, Alpha=4 B=0.8, Pb=0.7,\n+ Cgs=0.997E-12, Cgd=0.176E-12, >> Rd=0.084,\n+ Rs=0.054, Kf=5e-11, Af=2) >> TEXT -144 152 Left 2 ;SAV-541 2L Oscillator >> TEXT -120 216 Left 2 ;JL Feb 1 2022 >> >> >> >> >> > > Yes, decades ago I built something similar using an NPN BJT at kHz > frequencies. I used two molded chokes and had initially them loose > coupled but was amazed that I could separate them or re-orient so there > was no mutual couplling and still got oscillation. > > I think Irving Gottlieb described three types of Hartley in his > Oscillator Handbook and this is one of his "type 2" Hartleys, there is > no mutual coupling and the action is negative resistance. > > piglet > > >Found the book online, p145-146 were what I was thinking of ... <https://www.qsl.net/pa2efr/manuals/Doc/Practical%20Oscillator%20Handbook%201997-Irving%20M%20Gottlieb.pdf> piglet
Reply by ●February 1, 20222022-02-01
On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 16:17:15 +0000, piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:>> >> Yes, decades ago I built something similar using an NPN BJT at kHz >> frequencies. I used two molded chokes and had initially them loose >> coupled but was amazed that I could separate them or re-orient so there >> was no mutual couplling and still got oscillation. >> >> I think Irving Gottlieb described three types of Hartley in his >> Oscillator Handbook and this is one of his "type 2" Hartleys, there is >> no mutual coupling and the action is negative resistance. >> >> piglet >> >> >> > >Found the book online, p145-146 were what I was thinking of ... > ><https://www.qsl.net/pa2efr/manuals/Doc/Practical%20Oscillator%20Handbook%201997-Irving%20M%20Gottlieb.pdf> > >pigletNice. It's from 1997 but includes oldies like thyratrons, spark gaps, tunnel diodes. -- I yam what I yam - Popeye
Reply by ●February 1, 20222022-02-01
On 2/1/2022 11:07 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 10:59:09 -0500, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> piglet wrote: >>> On 01/02/2022 3:27 pm, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>> Not actually a Hartley, bacause the Ls are not coupled. >>> >>>> >>> >>> Yes, decades ago I built something similar using an NPN BJT at kHz >>> frequencies. I used two molded chokes and had initially them loose >>> coupled but was amazed that I could separate them or re-orient so there >>> was no mutual couplling and still got oscillation. >>> >>> I think Irving Gottlieb described three types of Hartley in his >>> Oscillator Handbook and this is one of his "type 2" Hartleys, there is >>> no mutual coupling and the action is negative resistance. >>> >>> piglet >>> >>> >>> With no coupling, it's a species of Colpitts--it's only the tank Q that >> does the impedance transformation, with no help from the transformer >> action of the mutual inductance. >> >> Cheers >> >> Phil Hobbs > > I was just fooling around. What I really want is a 1.5 GHz oscillator > with two antiphase outputs. A MMIC might be a good gain element.What about cross-coupled ECL-type oscillator
Reply by ●February 1, 20222022-02-01
On 2022-02-01 16:27, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:> Not actually a Hartley, bacause the Ls are not coupled. > > Version 4 > [Deleted...]To me, this classifies as a Hartley, because it has two L's and one C as its tank circuit. The fact that the L's aren't coupled, to my mind, is only a minor point. Jeroen Belleman
Reply by ●February 1, 20222022-02-01
On 2022-02-01 16:59, Phil Hobbs wrote:> piglet wrote: >> On 01/02/2022 3:27 pm, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>> Not actually a Hartley, bacause the Ls are not coupled. >>> >>> Version 4[Deleted ... ]>> > With no coupling, it's a species of Colpitts--it's only the tank Q that > does the impedance transformation, with no help from the transformer action of the mutual inductance. > > Cheers > > Phil Hobbs >To me, a Colpitts has two C's and one L in its tank. This one doesn't. A capacitive divider is also an impedance transformer. Jeroen Belleman
Reply by ●February 1, 20222022-02-01
On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 12:05:49 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:>On 2/1/2022 11:07 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 10:59:09 -0500, Phil Hobbs >> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >>> piglet wrote: >>>> On 01/02/2022 3:27 pm, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>> Not actually a Hartley, bacause the Ls are not coupled. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, decades ago I built something similar using an NPN BJT at kHz >>>> frequencies. I used two molded chokes and had initially them loose >>>> coupled but was amazed that I could separate them or re-orient so there >>>> was no mutual couplling and still got oscillation. >>>> >>>> I think Irving Gottlieb described three types of Hartley in his >>>> Oscillator Handbook and this is one of his "type 2" Hartleys, there is >>>> no mutual coupling and the action is negative resistance. >>>> >>>> piglet >>>> >>>> >>>> With no coupling, it's a species of Colpitts--it's only the tank Q that >>> does the impedance transformation, with no help from the transformer >>> action of the mutual inductance. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Phil Hobbs >> >> I was just fooling around. What I really want is a 1.5 GHz oscillator >> with two antiphase outputs. A MMIC might be a good gain element. > >What about cross-coupled ECL-type oscillatorI could persuade a diff-in-out ecl gate or comparator to oscillate, but I'd have to try it. I don't have Spice models for those. I might get lucky and just connect a diff gate into itself, inverted. and watch it oscillate. Hey good idea! Might be fun to try. A MMIC is a great gain element, but it's basically 50 ohms in and out, the ideal tank Q killer. The best MMIC ocillator is probably delay-line, which will give me antiphase outputs. Again, gotta solder to test that. I wish ADI would include their ADCMP parts in LT Spice. -- I yam what I yam - Popeye
