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OT: alcohol based perfume removal?

Started by T November 17, 2021
Hi All,

Anyone with a chemistry background?

There are now laundry perfumes and fabric finishes
(that are highly scented) that are not meant to
wash  out.  They toxic substances are very difficult
on folks with allergies, especially asthma.   They
don't wash out.

Somewhere that I do not remember, I read that these
toxic substances are alcohol soluble and won't wash
out in water.  Am I correct?

Anyway, if alcohol soluble, how do you get them out?
Dump a bottle of rubbing alcohol in the washer?

Any other ideas one way other the other?

Many thanks,
-T
On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:06:09 AM UTC-4, T wrote:
> Hi All,=20 >=20 > Anyone with a chemistry background?=20 >=20 > There are now laundry perfumes and fabric finishes=20 > (that are highly scented) that are not meant to=20 > wash out. They toxic substances are very difficult=20 > on folks with allergies, especially asthma. They=20 > don't wash out.=20 >=20 > Somewhere that I do not remember, I read that these=20 > toxic substances are alcohol soluble and won't wash=20 > out in water. Am I correct?=20 >=20 > Anyway, if alcohol soluble, how do you get them out?=20 > Dump a bottle of rubbing alcohol in the washer?=20 >=20 > Any other ideas one way other the other?=20 >=20 > Many thanks,=20 > -T
Not sure where you heard that detergents have fragrances that are not water= soluble. I suppose it is theoretically possible, but it would not dispers= e evenly in the wash and would not be applied evenly to the articles in the= wash. =20 Do you know the names of any of these fragrances? =20 I buy laundry detergents without perfume or color. I think the brand is Al= l. I find the scent from soaps and fabric softener to be cloying and clogs= my sense of smell. I'm happy with no scent. I find antiperspirants to be= similar, but I can't find them without any scent, however some are rather = mild. =20 It is hard to imagine any scent (other than Eau de Pew) that won't depart s= heets and clothing hanging on the line for a day. =20 What makes you think these substances are actually "toxic"?=20 --=20 Rick C. - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On 11/16/21 21:34, Rick C wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:06:09 AM UTC-4, T wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> Anyone with a chemistry background? >> >> There are now laundry perfumes and fabric finishes >> (that are highly scented) that are not meant to >> wash out. They toxic substances are very difficult >> on folks with allergies, especially asthma. They >> don't wash out. >> >> Somewhere that I do not remember, I read that these >> toxic substances are alcohol soluble and won't wash >> out in water. Am I correct? >> >> Anyway, if alcohol soluble, how do you get them out? >> Dump a bottle of rubbing alcohol in the washer? >> >> Any other ideas one way other the other? >> >> Many thanks, >> -T > > Not sure where you heard that detergents have fragrances that are not water soluble.
You would think if they wash in with water, they'd wash out too. But they are designed not to.
> I suppose it is theoretically possible, but it would not disperse evenly in the wash and would not be applied evenly to the articles in the wash. > > Do you know the names of any of these fragrances?
Tide has one. A quick search of the patent office will show you several of them. Here is Tide selling it separately: https://tide.com/en-us/shop/type/laundry-booster/downy-unstopables-scent-booster-tide-original-scent "In wash scent beads"
> > I buy laundry detergents without perfume or color. I think the brand is All.
And appreciated buy those around you with breathing problems and those that love them more than you can ever imagine. Thank you! I use 7th generation Free and Clear. Where I get in trouble is sitting in other people's chairs that do use them. I get the crap all over me and my clothing. And new cloths has finishes with them. The gift that keeps on giving
> I find the scent from soaps and fabric softener to be cloying and clogs my sense of smell. I'm happy with no scent. I find antiperspirants to be similar, but I can't find them without any scent, however some are rather mild. > > It is hard to imagine any scent (other than Eau de Pew) that won't depart sheets and clothing hanging on the line for a day. > > What makes you think these substances are actually "toxic"?
Folks in my family gasping in terror trying to breath. Also the MSDS sheets when you can find them.
On 17/11/2021 05:06, T wrote:
> Hi All, > > Anyone with a chemistry background? > > There are now laundry perfumes and fabric finishes > (that are highly scented) that are not meant to > wash out. They toxic substances are very difficult > on folks with allergies, especially asthma. They > don't wash out. > > Somewhere that I do not remember, I read that these > toxic substances are alcohol soluble and won't wash > out in water. Am I correct?
There are lots of fragrances listed at <https://smartlabel.pg.com/00037000754480.html>. These would, in general, show very limited solubility in water as they are mainly esters, aldehydes, and cyclic compounds which are highly lipophilic. You can try entering a CAS number here <https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/>. If the search finds something, click on the name and look in section 3.2.(X) for the solubility in water, if it shows it.
> Anyway, if alcohol soluble, how do you get them out? > Dump a bottle of rubbing alcohol in the washer? > > Any other ideas one way other the other?
If you put any type of alcohol in your washing machine, you will soon be in need of your local fire department. I suppose you could try to soak the clothes in something like isopropyl alcohol in a bucket outside, and then hang them up outside for the IPA to evaporate before washing in plain water. It won't be cheap, though. Perhaps repeated cycles in a tumble drier (*NOT* after washing in IPA!) would "flush" the clothes of their unwanted fragrances. If the clothes will stand it, try repeated washings at a much higher temperature than usual. -- Jeff
On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 9:06:09 PM UTC-8, T wrote:

> There are now laundry perfumes and fabric finishes > (that are highly scented) that are not meant to > wash out. They toxic substances are very difficult > on folks with allergies, especially asthma. They > don't wash out. ...
> Anyway, if alcohol soluble, how do you get them out? > Dump a bottle of rubbing alcohol in the washer?
On the principle that like dissolves like, if water doesn't dissolve these scents, try dry cleaning. If water does dissolve 'em, but they diffuse slow, a long soak (bucket of water, immerse for a day before laundering) can be useful. Use distilled water and a little wetting agent (Woolite?). Sometimes alkali (washing soda) can be added to a wash load, if you want more variables to play with.
T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 11/16/21 21:34, Rick C wrote: > > On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 1:06:09 AM UTC-4, T wrote: > >> Hi All, > >> > >> Anyone with a chemistry background? > >> > >> There are now laundry perfumes and fabric finishes > >> (that are highly scented) that are not meant to > >> wash out. They toxic substances are very difficult > >> on folks with allergies, especially asthma. They > >> don't wash out. > >> > >> Somewhere that I do not remember, I read that these > >> toxic substances are alcohol soluble and won't wash > >> out in water. Am I correct? > >> > >> Anyway, if alcohol soluble, how do you get them out? > >> Dump a bottle of rubbing alcohol in the washer? > >> > >> Any other ideas one way other the other? > >> > >> Many thanks, > >> -T > > > > Not sure where you heard that detergents have fragrances that are not > > water soluble. > > You would think if they wash in with water, they'd wash > out too. But they are designed not to. > > > I suppose it is theoretically possible, but it would not disperse evenly > > in the wash and would not be applied evenly to the articles in the wash. > > > > Do you know the names of any of these fragrances? > > Tide has one. A quick search of the patent office will > show you several of them. > > Here is Tide selling it separately: > https://tide.com/en-us/shop/type/laundry-booster/downy-unstopables-scent-b > ooster-tide-original-scent > > "In wash scent beads" > > > > > > > I buy laundry detergents without perfume or color. I think the brand is > > All. > > And appreciated buy those around you with breathing > problems and those that love them more than you can > ever imagine. Thank you! > > I use 7th generation Free and Clear. > > Where I get in trouble is sitting in other people's > chairs that do use them. I get the crap all over me > and my clothing. > > And new cloths has finishes with them. The gift that keeps > on giving > > > I find the scent from soaps and fabric softener to be cloying and clogs > > my sense of smell. I'm happy with no scent. I find antiperspirants to > > be similar, but I can't find them without any scent, however some are > > rather mild. > > > > It is hard to imagine any scent (other than Eau de Pew) that won't > > depart sheets and clothing hanging on the line for a day. > > > > What makes you think these substances are actually "toxic"? > > Folks in my family gasping in terror trying to breath. > Also the MSDS sheets when you can find them.
I also suffer badly from this. I have had a fleece hanging in the attic for several months waiting for the stink to disperse. It seems too good to throw away, but I doubt if I shall ever be able to wear it. Sometimes leaving the clothes on an outdoor washing line in showery weather, so that they get alternately wet and dry for several days, will reduce the smell. Definitely avoid washing them with other clothes, as the perfume will contaminate them too. Sometimes the perfumes only come out with body heat, so always wash 'new' (including secondhand) clothes separately in case they are contaminated but the smell isn't obvious at room temperature. Other items, such as books, have arrived contaminated. I have sealed them up and returned them for a full refund as they were "not of the quality demanded". In my opinion, these chemicals should be banned outright because we have no way of avoiding them. (Some are already banned as known carcinogens and other toxins, but the manufacturers are under no obligation to list the ingredients in perfumes. so they just go on using them.) -- ~ Liz Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk
On 17/11/2021 06.06, T wrote:
> Hi All, > > Anyone with a chemistry background? > > There are now laundry perfumes and fabric finishes > (that are highly scented) that are not meant to > wash&nbsp; out.&nbsp; They toxic substances are very difficult > on folks with allergies, especially asthma.&nbsp;&nbsp; They > don't wash out. > > Somewhere that I do not remember, I read that these > toxic substances are alcohol soluble and won't wash > out in water.&nbsp; Am I correct? > > Anyway, if alcohol soluble, how do you get them out? > Dump a bottle of rubbing alcohol in the washer? > > Any other ideas one way other the other?
I don't know where you write from, so the washing machines used here might be different than yours. In my experience, it is not the detergent which carries the perfume, but the fabric softener that the machine uses on the last rinse cycle. So, besides the perfume there is the softener itself that is intended to stay on the clothes, thus it is used on the last rinse so that it is not washed away. It is water soluble. The obvious solution is simply to not add a softener to the machine - our machines have 4 receptacles: pre-wash, wash, bleach, and softener. -- Cheers, Carlos E.R.
On 11/17/21 00:28, whit3rd wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 9:06:09 PM UTC-8, T wrote: > >> There are now laundry perfumes and fabric finishes >> (that are highly scented) that are not meant to >> wash out. They toxic substances are very difficult >> on folks with allergies, especially asthma. They >> don't wash out. ... > >> Anyway, if alcohol soluble, how do you get them out? >> Dump a bottle of rubbing alcohol in the washer? > > On the principle that like dissolves like, if water doesn't dissolve > these scents, try dry cleaning. If water does dissolve 'em, but they diffuse slow, > a long soak (bucket of water, immerse for a day before laundering) can > be useful. Use distilled water and a little wetting agent (Woolite?). > > Sometimes alkali (washing soda) can be added to a wash load, if you > want more variables to play with. >
I am going to respond to my original post with what does not work and what sort-of works
On 11/16/21 21:06, T wrote:
> Hi All, > > Anyone with a chemistry background? > > There are now laundry perfumes and fabric finishes > (that are highly scented) that are not meant to > wash&nbsp; out.&nbsp; They toxic substances are very difficult > on folks with allergies, especially asthma.&nbsp;&nbsp; They > don't wash out. > > Somewhere that I do not remember, I read that these > toxic substances are alcohol soluble and won't wash > out in water.&nbsp; Am I correct? > > Anyway, if alcohol soluble, how do you get them out? > Dump a bottle of rubbing alcohol in the washer? > > Any other ideas one way other the other? > > Many thanks, > -T
I suppose it would help if I posted what does not work and what sort-of-works. First though a guess on what is happening. Most folks without skin irritations to detergents seldom rise all the soap out of their cloths. If these chemicals are wax based, they may "melt" into the fibers in the dryer or the hot water of the washer. What DOES NOT work on old and new cloths: -- 7th Generation cloth washing detergent -- 7th Generation Dish detergent -- Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda) -- Sodium Carbonate (washing soda) -- Oxi/Oxo (Sodium Carbonate & Sodium Percarbonate) -- White Vinegar -- Extremely hot water -- EnviroKlenz What sort-of works on old cloths (that pick it up by me sitting in peoples chairs): -- Sodium Percarbonate BUTTTTTT it takes extremely hot water, tons of Sodium Percarbonate, and T-E-N washings. ANDDDDDDD it fills the house with toxic perfumes that almost makes the house uninhabitable to those with breathing issues New cloths (fabric finishes): -- Sodium Percarbonate AND it takes two to four washings a week F-O-R A Y-E-A-R !!!! The cloths are 1/2 worn out before you an use them. ANDDDDDDD it also fills the house with toxic perfumes that almost makes the house uninhabitable to those with breathing issues
On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 4:28:04 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 9:06:09 PM UTC-8, T wrote: > > > There are now laundry perfumes and fabric finishes > > (that are highly scented) that are not meant to > > wash out. They toxic substances are very difficult > > on folks with allergies, especially asthma. They > > don't wash out. ... > > Anyway, if alcohol soluble, how do you get them out? > > Dump a bottle of rubbing alcohol in the washer? > On the principle that like dissolves like, if water doesn't dissolve > these scents, try dry cleaning. If water does dissolve 'em, but they diffuse slow, > a long soak (bucket of water, immerse for a day before laundering) can > be useful. Use distilled water and a little wetting agent (Woolite?). > > Sometimes alkali (washing soda) can be added to a wash load, if you > want more variables to play with.
Dry cleaning might help depending on the particular substance, but it may not impact the scent much at all. Dry cleaning uses organic solvents that are hydrophobic and do not dissolve the same substances as water with detergents. But it's worth a try. The devil is in the details. -- Rick C. + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209