rant: filenames

On a sunny day (Thu, 11 Nov 2021 10:47:47 +0000) it happened Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <smisck$qqi$2@gioia.aioe.org>:

>I get one cheque a year from a client so antediluvian that they still 
>have a physical cheque run. I stuff it in a prepaid envelope with a 
>paying in form and post it to my bank. Everything else is by BACS or 
>electronic Faster Payment which are both point to point bank transfers.
>
>I think some UK banks do accept images of cheques but mine doesn't. OTOH 
>they did rashly offer free business banking for life as their USP.
>(which the new owner bitterly regrets but the contract is enforceable)

Keep some gold coins ... but as I read shelves are empty in the UK anyways and people go to foodbanks
wonder if my deep frozen pizzas will be accepted as payment by workers.
When things get worse human meat will be in too, beware of the men with bow and arrow.

On 11/11/2021 11:16, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Thu, 11 Nov 2021 10:47:47 +0000) it happened Martin Brown
> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <smisck$qqi$2@gioia.aioe.org>:
> 
>> I get one cheque a year from a client so antediluvian that they still
>> have a physical cheque run. I stuff it in a prepaid envelope with a
>> paying in form and post it to my bank. Everything else is by BACS or
>> electronic Faster Payment which are both point to point bank transfers.
>>
>> I think some UK banks do accept images of cheques but mine doesn't. OTOH
>> they did rashly offer free business banking for life as their USP.
>> (which the new owner bitterly regrets but the contract is enforceable)
> 
> Keep some gold coins ... but as I read shelves are empty in the UK anyways and people go to foodbanks

Gold coin isn't a lot of use as a currency for daily living. There are 
random empty shelf shortages in the supermarkets but nothing major. It 
is random things each week. Like it used to be in Russia. Breakdown of 
the JIT supply chain after Brexit has become a serious problem.

There are way too many people having to go to foodbanks but that is 
because we have a heartless Tory government up to its neck in sleaze 
running the country. They tried to tear up the rule book for taking 
bungs only last week and are in the maelstrom for it now.

It is unedifying to see our PM at COP26 stating unconvincingly that 
"Britain is not a corrupt country" when one of his predecessors was 
involved taking money to promote a hand sanitiser company in parliament. 
Some very questionable huge contracts during the pandemic have gone to 
mates of minsters without any competitive tender or suitability checks.

The Brexit ferry and freight company with no docks, no ships, no 
experience and T&C's copy and pasted from a Chinese Take Away was another.

One of the companies responsible for the ill fated test & trace scheme 
has a previous *convictions* for defrauding the Ministry of Justice!
You really couldn't make it up!

> wonder if my deep frozen pizzas will be accepted as payment by workers.
> When things get worse human meat will be in too, beware of the men with bow and arrow.

I suspect things are about to get a lot worse. UK Covid levels are way 
too high and yet again our government is sleep walking into disaster.

They will "follow the science" to use their words but about a month too 
late to do us any good. It is going to be a very tough winter.

-- 
Regards,
Martin Brown

On a sunny day (Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:09:34 +0000) it happened Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <smj15v$17et$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

>I suspect things are about to get a lot worse. UK Covid levels are way 
>too high and yet again our government is sleep walking into disaster.
>
>They will "follow the science" to use their words but about a month too 
>late to do us any good. It is going to be a very tough winter.

Things are getting worse here in the Netherlands too.
The 'outbreak management team' has now suggested to the government to 'introduce a 2 tier society with QR codes',
and for the not inoculated AND those testing not positive for covid no QR codes are given anymore, so no entry anywhere.
This means war as far as I am concerned.

So even if you have been tested and have no covid you are treated as a pariah.
Those who have natural immunity are victimized and the Medical Industrial Complex kills and kill and kill with it crap vaccines.
Having no access to food and other essential things is fascism and a death sentence to many!
World upside down.
Global thermonuclear war is the answer.

System failure!

Jan "Greasy" Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:smj8qc$124t$1@gioia.aioe.org: 

> On a sunny day (Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:09:34 +0000) it happened
> Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in
> <smj15v$17et$1@gioia.aioe.org>: 
> 
>>I suspect things are about to get a lot worse. UK Covid levels are
>>way too high and yet again our government is sleep walking into
>>disaster. 
>>
>>They will "follow the science" to use their words but about a
>>month too late to do us any good. It is going to be a very tough
>>winter. 
> 
> Things are getting worse here in the Netherlands too.

  Especially if it is full of idiots with your immature mindset.

> The 'outbreak management team' has now suggested to the government
> to 'introduce a 2 tier society with QR codes', and for the not
> inoculated AND those testing not positive for covid no QR codes
> are given anymore, so no entry anywhere. This means war as far as
> I am concerned. 


  WAR?  War, you putz motherfucker?  OK...

  My first volley against you would be those darts they use to 
incapacitate wild beasts with, filled 1 in 4 with the covid vax.
  So first, you likely get sedated, which a retarded fuck like you 
certainly deserves.  Then your retarded ass WILL get vaxed and 
standing in front of the volley like that will mean that you get over 
vaxed, motherfucker, and the knock-out darts... well...  even one 
more of those might be too much for the repisratory system of 
naturally immune putz like you, but the volley delivered 6 of those 
and 3 vax.  You can now lie there and die knowing you got protected
and we can rest knowing that your last breath was clean...  and 
faint.

> So even if you have been tested and have no covid you are treated
> as a pariah. Those who have natural immunity are victimized and
> the Medical Industrial Complex kills and kill and kill with it
> crap vaccines.

  I'm gonna call you "Greasy" from now on.  You smell like an old 
greasy kitchen grill.

  The numbers do not support your inane, insane, invalid, untrue 
claims, STUPID FUCKTARD.

> Having no access to food and other essential things
> is fascism and a death sentence to many!

  WEAR A MASK, YOU STUPID FUCK.  GO GET THE SHOT, YOU STUPID FUCK.
REAL SIMPLE, YOU STUPID FUCK!

> World upside down.

  More like your fucktarded pea brain is upside down, child.

> Global thermonuclear war is the answer.

  Have all your no vax nuts gather up say...  down in Iran where all 
those "death to USA" idiots hang out.  Gather ALL you dumb 
motherfuckers the world over at that spot.

  THEN I would agree with you 100%.  A single thermonuclear device...

  A "teardrop of the sun" to reign down on your stupid putz brained 
asses would be 100% acceptable to me.  One bomb...  job done... Easy 
PEACEY.  Evaporate you, Greasy!

> System failure!

  Yes, motherfucker...  YOU failed.  The day you accepted the 
bullshit being barked at your local pub by your fellow utter idiots.

  And you used to act scientific here.  Strangely, I always knew you 
to be a lunatic.  You have now hereby reinforced that feeling.

  FOAD, Greasy, vaxtard idiot.

On 11/11/2021 14:18, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:09:34 +0000) it happened Martin Brown
> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <smj15v$17et$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
> 
>> I suspect things are about to get a lot worse. UK Covid levels are way
>> too high and yet again our government is sleep walking into disaster.
>>
>> They will "follow the science" to use their words but about a month too
>> late to do us any good. It is going to be a very tough winter.
> 
> Things are getting worse here in the Netherlands too.
> The 'outbreak management team' has now suggested to the government to 'introduce a 2 tier society with QR codes',
> and for the not inoculated AND those testing not positive for covid no QR codes are given anymore, so no entry anywhere.

I think you have that backwards. In the UK at least in the places that 
are using Covid passports it is double vaccinated *or* recent Covid 
negative test will get you into a venue where those rules apply.

(recent negatives are pretty meaningless though - too many false ones)

I think only Wales and Scotland are doing it so far. UK has just created 
a massive problem by summarily firing 8% of all care home workers for 
not being vaccinated as of today. This will backfire mightily. They were 
already very short staffed thanks to Brexit and pandemic fatigue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59234880

> This means war as far as I am concerned.

I'm not convinced that heavy handed enforcement of vaccination is a 
sensible approach. UK government is doing it in healthcare and the 
result is that about 10% would rather lose their jobs than be 
vaccinated. Surprisingly although protesting more the French healthcare 
workers seem more pragmatic about it being made compulsory.

> So even if you have been tested and have no covid you are treated as a pariah.

The negative test results are a bit ropey so a single negative result 
doesn't tell you very much. A positive PCR test is almost invariably 
accurate and a lateral flow test gives 0.1% false positives. The latter 
becomes a problem when you routinely screen a few million people with it 
and as many false positives as you do real ones.

About 20% of truly positive patients get a negative PCR and ~50% get a 
negative lateral flow test. There are documented instances of people in 
the public eye having Covid and two consecutive negative LF tests!

> Those who have natural immunity are victimized and the Medical Industrial Complex kills and kill and kill with it crap vaccines.

The vaccines are pretty good. Amazingly good considering the novelty of 
the virus that they are targetting. I reckon you should be free to 
choose whether to be vaccinated or not, but if you choose not to then 
you have no right to an ICU bed if you get seriously ill with Covid.

The main effect of the vaccination is to prevent serious illness in 
those who have been vaccinated. If you choose to refuse that protection 
then that is your problem. Vaccination does little to prevent 
transmission so the compulsory vaccination thing is a red herring.

You are already much more likely to catch Covid from someone who is 
double vaccinated than from the remaining 15% of refuseniks. FWIW my 
local areas has now reached theoretical 85% (ANU) herd immunity levels 
of double vaccination and a further 5% young people single dosed. It 
hasn't made one jot of difference to Covid levels. This week was the 
first time we were pinged. 2% of the UK population has Covid right now!

> Having no access to food and other essential things is fascism and a death sentence to many!

Don't you have internet shopping in Holland then?
It is all the rage over here. Some of my neighbours haven't been out 
shopping at all since lockdown began!

> World upside down.
> Global thermonuclear war is the answer.

That would only make things worse. 10-30% casualties in the immediate 
blast zones and then a nasty lingering death for the injured survivors.

> System failure!

I reckon the system has coped relatively well. UK could have done a lot 
better if our crazy government had listened to its scientific advisors.

-- 
Regards,
Martin Brown

On a sunny day (Thu, 11 Nov 2021 16:57:13 +0000) it happened Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <smji1a$1vjd$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

>On 11/11/2021 14:18, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:09:34 +0000) it happened Martin Brown
>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <smj15v$17et$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>> 
>>> I suspect things are about to get a lot worse. UK Covid levels are way
>>> too high and yet again our government is sleep walking into disaster.
>>>
>>> They will "follow the science" to use their words but about a month too
>>> late to do us any good. It is going to be a very tough winter.
>> 
>> Things are getting worse here in the Netherlands too.
>> The 'outbreak management team' has now suggested to the government to 'introduce a 2 tier society with QR codes',
>> and for the not inoculated AND those testing not positive for covid no QR codes are given anymore, so no entry anywhere.
>
>I think you have that backwards. In the UK at least in the places that 
>are using Covid passports it is double vaccinated *or* recent Covid 
>negative test will get you into a venue where those rules apply.

Nope, they no longer want to accept negative tests,
It is obviously a move to force people to get jabs,


>(recent negatives are pretty meaningless though - too many false ones)

Same for positive ones, only real PCR test are more or less reliable, and those take days.


>I think only Wales and Scotland are doing it so far. UK has just created 
>a massive problem by summarily firing 8% of all care home workers for 
>not being vaccinated as of today. This will backfire mightily. They were 
>already very short staffed thanks to Brexit and pandemic fatigue.
>
>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59234880
>
>> This means war as far as I am concerned.
>
>I'm not convinced that heavy handed enforcement of vaccination is a 
>sensible approach.

Indeed it is fascist criminal.


>UK government is doing it in healthcare and the 
>result is that about 10% would rather lose their jobs than be 
>vaccinated. Surprisingly although protesting more the French healthcare 
>workers seem more pragmatic about it being made compulsory.

Some US pilots are on strike, thousands of flights canceled..


>> So even if you have been tested and have no covid you are treated as a pariah.
>
>The negative test results are a bit ropey so a single negative result 
>doesn't tell you very much. A positive PCR test is almost invariably 
>accurate and a lateral flow test gives 0.1% false positives. The latter 
>becomes a problem when you routinely screen a few million people with it 
>and as many false positives as you do real ones.
>
>About 20% of truly positive patients get a negative PCR and ~50% get a 
>negative lateral flow test. There are documented instances of people in 
>the public eye having Covid and two consecutive negative LF tests!
>
>> Those who have natural immunity are victimized and the Medical Industrial Complex kills and kill and kill with it crap
>> vaccines.
>
>The vaccines are pretty good. Amazingly good considering the novelty of 
>the virus that they are targetting. I reckon you should be free to 
>choose whether to be vaccinated or not, but if you choose not to then 
>you have no right to an ICU bed if you get seriously ill with Covid.

There are now 2 pills you can take that will stop serious covid.
Should really be available in every drug store just like anti flue medicines.



>The main effect of the vaccination is to prevent serious illness in 
>those who have been vaccinated. If you choose to refuse that protection 
>then that is your problem. Vaccination does little to prevent 
>transmission so the compulsory vaccination thing is a red herring.
>
>You are already much more likely to catch Covid from someone who is 
>double vaccinated than from the remaining 15% of refuseniks. FWIW my 
>local areas has now reached theoretical 85% (ANU) herd immunity levels 
>of double vaccination and a further 5% young people single dosed. It 
>hasn't made one jot of difference to Covid levels. This week was the 
>first time we were pinged. 2% of the UK population has Covid right now!
>
>> Having no access to food and other essential things is fascism and a death sentence to many!
>
>Don't you have internet shopping in Holland then?
>It is all the rage over here. Some of my neighbours haven't been out 
>shopping at all since lockdown began!

Well, sure, although I think I never ordered food online..
Supermarket is close, went shopping for some clothes yesterday a bit further away, took a bus.
Bus stop is in front of my house basically.
Believe it or not, I was the only passenger for quite a wile.
Had not taken a bus in years... 
Anyways in my younger days I seem to have lived on chips and stuff for years....


>> World upside down.
>> Global thermonuclear war is the answer.
>
>That would only make things worse. 10-30% casualties in the immediate 
>blast zones and then a nasty lingering death for the injured survivors.

Ah, and wildlife at Chernobyl is thriving!
But that war is coming.


>> System failure!
>
>I reckon the system has coped relatively well. UK could have done a lot 
>better if our crazy government had listened to its scientific advisors.

It seems to me science is much the slave of politics.
That can be good (for humanity) for example the US moonshots were made possible
by politics wanting to beat Russia to the moon. Sputnik triggered that.
But it can be bad too say politics shutting down reliable nuclear power and
replacing it with unreliable wind and solar.
I did read UK now will build some more nuclear power plants, that is good.

We will see how it goes, tomorrow there will be an official announcement from the Dutch government
about the new policies.
If not what I like then I will have to ask .who was it? intergalactic leader to beam them up.

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 16:57:13 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

>On 11/11/2021 14:18, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:09:34 +0000) it happened Martin Brown
>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <smj15v$17et$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>> 
>>> I suspect things are about to get a lot worse. UK Covid levels are way
>>> too high and yet again our government is sleep walking into disaster.
>>>
>>> They will "follow the science" to use their words but about a month too
>>> late to do us any good. It is going to be a very tough winter.
>> 
>> Things are getting worse here in the Netherlands too.
>> The 'outbreak management team' has now suggested to the government to 'introduce a 2 tier society with QR codes',
>> and for the not inoculated AND those testing not positive for covid no QR codes are given anymore, so no entry anywhere.
>
>I think you have that backwards. In the UK at least in the places that 
>are using Covid passports it is double vaccinated *or* recent Covid 
>negative test will get you into a venue where those rules apply.
>
>(recent negatives are pretty meaningless though - too many false ones)
>
>I think only Wales and Scotland are doing it so far. UK has just created 
>a massive problem by summarily firing 8% of all care home workers for 
>not being vaccinated as of today. This will backfire mightily. They were 
>already very short staffed thanks to Brexit and pandemic fatigue.
>
>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59234880
>
>> This means war as far as I am concerned.
>
>I'm not convinced that heavy handed enforcement of vaccination is a 
>sensible approach. UK government is doing it in healthcare and the 
>result is that about 10% would rather lose their jobs than be 
>vaccinated. Surprisingly although protesting more the French healthcare 
>workers seem more pragmatic about it being made compulsory.
>
>> So even if you have been tested and have no covid you are treated as a pariah.
>
>The negative test results are a bit ropey so a single negative result 
>doesn't tell you very much. A positive PCR test is almost invariably 
>accurate and a lateral flow test gives 0.1% false positives. The latter 
>becomes a problem when you routinely screen a few million people with it 
>and as many false positives as you do real ones.
>
>About 20% of truly positive patients get a negative PCR and ~50% get a 
>negative lateral flow test. There are documented instances of people in 
>the public eye having Covid and two consecutive negative LF tests!
>
>> Those who have natural immunity are victimized and the Medical Industrial Complex kills and kill and kill with it crap vaccines.
>
>The vaccines are pretty good. Amazingly good considering the novelty of 
>the virus that they are targetting. I reckon you should be free to 
>choose whether to be vaccinated or not, but if you choose not to then 
>you have no right to an ICU bed if you get seriously ill with Covid.

How about people who ride motorcycles or rock climb or eat too much?

Do they deserve medical care?



>
>The main effect of the vaccination is to prevent serious illness in 
>those who have been vaccinated. If you choose to refuse that protection 
>then that is your problem. Vaccination does little to prevent 
>transmission so the compulsory vaccination thing is a red herring.
>
>You are already much more likely to catch Covid from someone who is 
>double vaccinated than from the remaining 15% of refuseniks. FWIW my 
>local areas has now reached theoretical 85% (ANU) herd immunity levels 
>of double vaccination and a further 5% young people single dosed. It 
>hasn't made one jot of difference to Covid levels. This week was the 
>first time we were pinged. 2% of the UK population has Covid right now!

The virus may keep mutating around vaccines. Anti-virals for serious
cases may be the long term plan.



-- 

Father Brown's figure remained quite dark and still; 
but in that instant he had lost his head. His head was
always most valuable when he had lost it.



  

On 11/11/21 18:03, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 16:57:13 +0000, Martin Brown
> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/11/2021 14:18, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:09:34 +0000) it happened Martin Brown
>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <smj15v$17et$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>>>
>>>> I suspect things are about to get a lot worse. UK Covid levels are way
>>>> too high and yet again our government is sleep walking into disaster.
>>>>
>>>> They will "follow the science" to use their words but about a month too
>>>> late to do us any good. It is going to be a very tough winter.
>>>
>>> Things are getting worse here in the Netherlands too.
>>> The 'outbreak management team' has now suggested to the government to 'introduce a 2 tier society with QR codes',
>>> and for the not inoculated AND those testing not positive for covid no QR codes are given anymore, so no entry anywhere.
>>
>> I think you have that backwards. In the UK at least in the places that
>> are using Covid passports it is double vaccinated *or* recent Covid
>> negative test will get you into a venue where those rules apply.
>>
>> (recent negatives are pretty meaningless though - too many false ones)
>>
>> I think only Wales and Scotland are doing it so far. UK has just created
>> a massive problem by summarily firing 8% of all care home workers for
>> not being vaccinated as of today. This will backfire mightily. They were
>> already very short staffed thanks to Brexit and pandemic fatigue.
>>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59234880
>>
>>> This means war as far as I am concerned.
>>
>> I'm not convinced that heavy handed enforcement of vaccination is a
>> sensible approach. UK government is doing it in healthcare and the
>> result is that about 10% would rather lose their jobs than be
>> vaccinated. Surprisingly although protesting more the French healthcare
>> workers seem more pragmatic about it being made compulsory.
>>
>>> So even if you have been tested and have no covid you are treated as a pariah.
>>
>> The negative test results are a bit ropey so a single negative result
>> doesn't tell you very much. A positive PCR test is almost invariably
>> accurate and a lateral flow test gives 0.1% false positives. The latter
>> becomes a problem when you routinely screen a few million people with it
>> and as many false positives as you do real ones.
>>
>> About 20% of truly positive patients get a negative PCR and ~50% get a
>> negative lateral flow test. There are documented instances of people in
>> the public eye having Covid and two consecutive negative LF tests!
>>
>>> Those who have natural immunity are victimized and the Medical Industrial Complex kills and kill and kill with it crap vaccines.
>>
>> The vaccines are pretty good. Amazingly good considering the novelty of
>> the virus that they are targetting. I reckon you should be free to
>> choose whether to be vaccinated or not, but if you choose not to then
>> you have no right to an ICU bed if you get seriously ill with Covid.
> 
> How about people who ride motorcycles or rock climb or eat too much?
> 
> Do they deserve medical care?

A reasonable question. Yes, I think they do - and I am happy to
pay my taxes to ensure they do.

Key differences:
  - their are benefits to their risky activities
  - they will take precautions to be safe while doing their
    risky activity
  - they aren't risking innocent people /with impunity/. If, e.g.,
    a motorcyclist injures a pedestrian, they can be prosecuted
    with heavy penalties


>> The main effect of the vaccination is to prevent serious illness in
>> those who have been vaccinated. If you choose to refuse that protection
>> then that is your problem. Vaccination does little to prevent
>> transmission so the compulsory vaccination thing is a red herring.
>>
>> You are already much more likely to catch Covid from someone who is
>> double vaccinated than from the remaining 15% of refuseniks. FWIW my
>> local areas has now reached theoretical 85% (ANU) herd immunity levels
>> of double vaccination and a further 5% young people single dosed. It
>> hasn't made one jot of difference to Covid levels. This week was the
>> first time we were pinged. 2% of the UK population has Covid right now!
> 
> The virus may keep mutating around vaccines. Anti-virals for serious
> cases may be the long term plan.

The new antivirals are a big benefit, and another tool in the box.

But they aren't a substitute for avoiding the disease through
vaccination any more than iron lungs are a substitute for polio
vaccinations.

On 11/11/2021 20:03, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 16:57:13 +0000, Martin Brown
>> .....
>> The vaccines are pretty good. Amazingly good considering the novelty of
>> the virus that they are targetting. I reckon you should be free to
>> choose whether to be vaccinated or not, but if you choose not to then
>> you have no right to an ICU bed if you get seriously ill with Covid.
> 
> How about people who ride motorcycles or rock climb or eat too much?
> 
> Do they deserve medical care?

If they begin to catch up in numbers with those filling up the beds
because of the virus, no.

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:53:32 +0000, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>On 11/11/21 18:03, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 16:57:13 +0000, Martin Brown
>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 11/11/2021 14:18, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:09:34 +0000) it happened Martin Brown
>>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <smj15v$17et$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>>>>
>>>>> I suspect things are about to get a lot worse. UK Covid levels are way
>>>>> too high and yet again our government is sleep walking into disaster.
>>>>>
>>>>> They will "follow the science" to use their words but about a month too
>>>>> late to do us any good. It is going to be a very tough winter.
>>>>
>>>> Things are getting worse here in the Netherlands too.
>>>> The 'outbreak management team' has now suggested to the government to 'introduce a 2 tier society with QR codes',
>>>> and for the not inoculated AND those testing not positive for covid no QR codes are given anymore, so no entry anywhere.
>>>
>>> I think you have that backwards. In the UK at least in the places that
>>> are using Covid passports it is double vaccinated *or* recent Covid
>>> negative test will get you into a venue where those rules apply.
>>>
>>> (recent negatives are pretty meaningless though - too many false ones)
>>>
>>> I think only Wales and Scotland are doing it so far. UK has just created
>>> a massive problem by summarily firing 8% of all care home workers for
>>> not being vaccinated as of today. This will backfire mightily. They were
>>> already very short staffed thanks to Brexit and pandemic fatigue.
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59234880
>>>
>>>> This means war as far as I am concerned.
>>>
>>> I'm not convinced that heavy handed enforcement of vaccination is a
>>> sensible approach. UK government is doing it in healthcare and the
>>> result is that about 10% would rather lose their jobs than be
>>> vaccinated. Surprisingly although protesting more the French healthcare
>>> workers seem more pragmatic about it being made compulsory.
>>>
>>>> So even if you have been tested and have no covid you are treated as a pariah.
>>>
>>> The negative test results are a bit ropey so a single negative result
>>> doesn't tell you very much. A positive PCR test is almost invariably
>>> accurate and a lateral flow test gives 0.1% false positives. The latter
>>> becomes a problem when you routinely screen a few million people with it
>>> and as many false positives as you do real ones.
>>>
>>> About 20% of truly positive patients get a negative PCR and ~50% get a
>>> negative lateral flow test. There are documented instances of people in
>>> the public eye having Covid and two consecutive negative LF tests!
>>>
>>>> Those who have natural immunity are victimized and the Medical Industrial Complex kills and kill and kill with it crap vaccines.
>>>
>>> The vaccines are pretty good. Amazingly good considering the novelty of
>>> the virus that they are targetting. I reckon you should be free to
>>> choose whether to be vaccinated or not, but if you choose not to then
>>> you have no right to an ICU bed if you get seriously ill with Covid.
>> 
>> How about people who ride motorcycles or rock climb or eat too much?
>> 
>> Do they deserve medical care?
>
>A reasonable question. Yes, I think they do - and I am happy to
>pay my taxes to ensure they do.
>
>Key differences:
>  - their are benefits to their risky activities
>  - they will take precautions to be safe while doing their
>    risky activity

Not the motorcyclists here!



>  - they aren't risking innocent people /with impunity/. If, e.g.,
>    a motorcyclist injures a pedestrian, they can be prosecuted
>    with heavy penalties
>
>
>>> The main effect of the vaccination is to prevent serious illness in
>>> those who have been vaccinated. If you choose to refuse that protection
>>> then that is your problem. Vaccination does little to prevent
>>> transmission so the compulsory vaccination thing is a red herring.
>>>
>>> You are already much more likely to catch Covid from someone who is
>>> double vaccinated than from the remaining 15% of refuseniks. FWIW my
>>> local areas has now reached theoretical 85% (ANU) herd immunity levels
>>> of double vaccination and a further 5% young people single dosed. It
>>> hasn't made one jot of difference to Covid levels. This week was the
>>> first time we were pinged. 2% of the UK population has Covid right now!
>> 
>> The virus may keep mutating around vaccines. Anti-virals for serious
>> cases may be the long term plan.
>
>The new antivirals are a big benefit, and another tool in the box.
>
>But they aren't a substitute for avoiding the disease through
>vaccination any more than iron lungs are a substitute for polio
>vaccinations.

The polio vaccination lasted for life, and polio is almost gone
anyhow.

It looks like everyone may need to be vaccinated against covid every 6
months (and wear those silly masks) forever.

The alternative is to go back to normal life and treat the serious
cases.

-- 

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, 
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon