Legal definitions of homicide in the US and applicability to the accidental shooting on the 'Rust' movie set

On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 10:16:58 PM UTC-7, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Flyshit is So Fucking Stupid 
> ====================== 
> >>
> > > Go and f your mother - you ridiculous child. 
> > > =================================
> > 1. When negligence is involved in the wrongful death of another it is, by definition, criminal.
> ** Nonsense.
Well, what YOU write IS nonsense.
> > 2. How did the bullet strike Hutchins if it wasn't pointed at her?
> ** Pure chance, the gun was neither pointed nor the trigger intentionally pulled.
Bullet trajectories ARE NOT a matter of "chance," but the direction the barrel is pointed.
> > I think you are talking about AIMED at her, which is different.
> ** No it is NOT - you pedantic, autistic TWAT
Nice, reasoned argument...NOT!
> > 3. Practicing with a LOADED weapon IS negligent.
> ** Only if done knowingly - NOT the case here.
Firearm safety training is VERY CLEAR: you MUST treat ALL firearms as being loaded. Only by personally verifying that the weapon is clear of ALL rounds can you treat it as being unloaded. Failure to do this IS negligence.
> > Not checking that the gun was loaded IS ALSO negligent.
> ** NOT in circumstances like these.
> > 4. As the onsite film Producer, Baldwin's duties REQUIRED him to maintain safety on the set.
> ** No it fucking does NOT !! 
Yes it FUCKING DOES!!!
> 
> Along with main character acting, that would be a totally impossible task. 
Baldwin knowingly accepted these responsibilities and being over-worked IS NOT an excuse for negligence.
> 
> Others shared that job. 
There may be others (and probably are) that share Baldwin's negligence - that is for the prosecutors to decide, not you.

On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 10:26:41 PM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in 
> news:3334648a-ba3e-4c54...@googlegroups.com:
> > On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 5:24:50 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote: 
> >> In the US, there is no single set of terms for the kinds of 
> >> homicide. The federal government has one set, and each state has 
> >> its own. They are very similar in principle, but are not 
> >> identical, and may be named and worded quite differently. 
> >> 
> >> Most of US law evolved from English Law, except for the Louisiana 
> >> Purchase states, which instead evolved from the Napoleonic Code 
> >> of France. New Mexico law likely evolved from English Law. 
> >> 
> >> Not all kinds of homicide are considered murder. The main kinds 
> >> (by whatever name) are as follows (by some old definition from 
> >> California?): 
> >> 
> >> First-degree Murder, for which one could be executed. Requires 
> >> the action and the intent to kill someone, with success. It is 
> >> not necessary to have had a specific person in mind. The classic 
> >> examples are shooting into a crowd, or setting off a bomb - it's 
> >> quite likely that someone will die, no matter who was unlucky 
> >> that day. 
> >> 
> >> It's Attempted Murder if intended but no success - it's the 
> >> thought that counts. 
> >> 
> >> Second-degree Murder, also known in some states as negligent 
> >> homicide. Requires action, but no intent to kill, but with 
> >> success. This is the typical charge when an automobile accident 
> >> leads to a death. Another example is an industrial accident. 
> >> 
> >> There is no such thing as attempted second-degree murder, for 
> >> lack of murderous intent. 
> > 
> > You would think that - and it has been argued in court exactly 
> > that way... but I know someone who was convicted and sentenced for 
> > attempted second degree murder. I read the documents submitted 
> > attempting to overthrow the conviction. It didn't fly in Florida. 
> > The crime met every aspect of the requirements for second degree 
> > murder (not exactly as you state them, but that varies between 
> > states) except the body wasn't dead when they loaded it in the 
> > trunk to dispose of it. 
> > 
> > The example of auto accident might not suffice to reach second 
> > degree murder in Florida. There they require you to be committing 
> > a felony that could be expected to result in death without intent 
> > of causing a death. So if the manner of driving the auto in the 
> > deadly accident was not sufficient to be committing a felony that 
> > could be expected to result in death it would not be second degree 
> > murder, while it could be manslaughter. 
> > 
> > 
> >> If it turns out that someone did slip a live (meaning with a lead 
> >> bullet and powder) round into the pistol that Alex Baldwin later 
> >> used on set, whoever meddled with that pistol will likely be 
> >> charged with first-degree murder, unless the law cannot figure 
> >> out and prove beyond a reasonable doubt who did it. 
> > 
> > I think that is very clearly not first degree murder since it was 
> > only a remote possibility someone would have been killed by the 
> > bullet. In fact I think it was very unlikely someone would have 
> > been killed. You give a definition of first degree murder above, 
> > but you don't say that is the definition in New Mexico where the 
> > killing took place. 
> >
> The assistant director is the guy supposed to hand a gun to an 
> actor AFTER the armourer hands it to the AD. That did not happen 
> here AND when asked by the investigators, he said he 'could not 
> remember how well he checked the gun'. WHAT? can't remember? I 
> would remember every single second. Something is not right with that 
> crew. 
> 
> I cannot help but think that it is Trump related, because there are 
> so many absolute idiots out there following the dope, and guess 
> what... they hate Alec Baldwin.

DecayedBrainMatter has just come up with the MOST BIZARRE excuse for Baldwin: the prosecutors are after him because they love Trump and hate Baldwin!

Joe Gwinn Bullshitter wrote:
==========================
>  
> >> The Armorer and the Assistant Director may have been sloppy (this is 
> >> disputed), but even if true, that's at most second-degree murder. I'd 
> >> hazard that the Assistant Director is the likely focus, not the 
> >> 24-year old Armorer, who reports to that Assistant Director. 
> >> 
> >
> >** This is the only inaccurate part of your post. 
> > Sloppy does not equal criminal negligence. 
> 
> Sure it can, in the US anyway.

** Drivel. 
 
> >We already know the live and dummy rounds used look identical to the average person even when they know there is an odd one in the mix. ( The New Mexico DA said she could not tell ) 
> 
> Don't know if that DA knows guns at all well. 

**  Idiotic, smartass remark. 

> If I were the Armorer, 

**  LOL. 

> >The lady armorer had a near impossible task to get it right * every * time. 
> >Making an understandable mistake is never negligence - at all.
>
> True, 

** Then you need to shut up.
 
> >The one class of event you left out was "death by misadventure" as seems the case here. 
> >A when a person or group engages in a hazardous activity - like race car or power boat racing and and one competitor is accidentally killed. Making a western movie with real guns is like that. 
> 
> You are correct in that I didn't cover assumption of risk

** What drugs are you on ?  Or not on ? 

> >Do you want to see a clear example of criminal negligence on a movie set ? 
> > 
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_Rider_(film)> 
> 
> It's a good example for sure.

** So learn from it - fuckhead. 


> The key is "willful negligence", which is usually the intentional 
> skipping required safety measures to save money,

** Civil liability in near all such cases. 


.....  Phil 

 Flyshit is So Fucking Stupid 
 ====================== 
>> > Go and f your mother - you ridiculous child. 
> > > ================================= 
>
> > 
> > Along with main character acting, that would be a totally impossible task.
>
> Baldwin knowingly accepted these responsibilities 

**  And can legally deal with them by delegation. 
 
> > Others shared that job. 

> There may be others (and probably are) that share Baldwin's negligence - that is for the prosecutors to decide, not you.

**  None of them criminal - you lying ass. 

On Saturday, November 6, 2021 at 3:09:44 PM UTC-7, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> Flyshit is So Fucking Stupid 
> ====================== 
> >> > Go and f your mother - you ridiculous child. 
> > > > ================================= 
> > 
> > >
> > > Along with main character acting, that would be a totally impossible task. 
> > 
> > Baldwin knowingly accepted these responsibilities
> ** And can legally deal with them by delegation.

And you KNOW that he delegated them because...

> > > Others shared that job. 
> 
> > There may be others (and probably are) that share Baldwin's negligence - that is for the prosecutors to decide, not you.
> ** None of them criminal - you lying ass.

And you KNOW this because...

It is clear that you don't know ANY of these. What is VERY CLEAR is that there was negligence exhibited on that set, and there are PLENTY of reasons, that I have already listed, to point to criminal negligence. Calling me childish names isn't going to make your vacuous arguments sound anymore insightful. In fact, it shows that you are TOO LAZY to do your homework.

> > Flyshit is So Fucking Stupid 
> > ====================== 
> Go and f your mother - you ridiculous child. 
> > > ================================= 
> > 
> > > Baldwin knowingly accepted these responsibilities 
>>
> > ** And can legally deal with them by delegation.
>
> And you KNOW that he delegated them because...

**   That Q is another  Straw Man fallacy. 

> > > > Others shared that job. 
> > 
> > > There may be others (and probably are) that share Baldwin's negligence 
>>
> > ** None of them criminal - you lying ass.
>
> And you KNOW this because... 

**  Lack of  " mens rea "  leading to the accident. 

 > What is VERY CLEAR is that there was negligence exhibited on that set, 

**  You vile, know noting, autistic retard. 


.....  Phil 

On Saturday, November 6, 2021 at 4:43:34 PM UTC-7, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Flyshit is So Fucking Stupid 
> > > ====================== 
> > Go and f your mother - you ridiculous child. 
> > > > ================================= 
> > >
> > > > Baldwin knowingly accepted these responsibilities 
> >> 
> > > ** And can legally deal with them by delegation. 
> > 
> > And you KNOW that he delegated them because...
> ** That Q is another Straw Man fallacy.
> > > > > Others shared that job. 
> > > 
> > > > There may be others (and probably are) that share Baldwin's negligence 
> >>
> > > ** None of them criminal - you lying ass. 
> > 
> > And you KNOW this because...
> ** Lack of " mens rea " leading to the accident.
> > What is VERY CLEAR is that there was negligence exhibited on that set,
> ** You vile, know noting, autistic retard. 
> 
> 
> ..... Phil

Hey Phil, negligent homicide DOES NOT require intent - if there was it would be murder.

It is clear that you don't know ANY of these. What is VERY CLEAR is that there was negligence exhibited on that set, and there are PLENTY of reasons, that I have already listed, to point to criminal negligence. Calling me childish names isn't going to make your vacuous arguments sound any more insightful. In fact, it shows that you are TOO LAZY to do your homework.

Flyshit is So Fucking Stupid 
===================
> > > And you KNOW this because... 
> > ** Lack of " mens rea " leading to the accident. 
> > > What is VERY CLEAR is that there was negligence exhibited on that set, 
> > ** You vile, know noting, autistic retard. 
> > 
>  negligent homicide DOES NOT require intent
>

** It requires *recklessness*  as to outcome instead. 

  "  Mens rea " in a heartbeat. 

 Incomprehensible to  AUTISTIC  IDIOTS. 

 FOAD  you shit. 


.....  Phil 

Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:e13892dd-6343-4a59-9e67-ae8fc5aad604n@googlegroups.com: 

> On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 10:26:41 PM UTC-7,
> DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote: 
>> Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in 
>> news:3334648a-ba3e-4c54...@googlegroups.com:
>> > On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 5:24:50 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn
>> > wrote: 
>> >> In the US, there is no single set of terms for the kinds of 
>> >> homicide. The federal government has one set, and each state
>> >> has its own. They are very similar in principle, but are not 
>> >> identical, and may be named and worded quite differently. 
>> >> 
>> >> Most of US law evolved from English Law, except for the
>> >> Louisiana Purchase states, which instead evolved from the
>> >> Napoleonic Code of France. New Mexico law likely evolved from
>> >> English Law. 
>> >> 
>> >> Not all kinds of homicide are considered murder. The main
>> >> kinds (by whatever name) are as follows (by some old
>> >> definition from California?): 
>> >> 
>> >> First-degree Murder, for which one could be executed. Requires
>> >> the action and the intent to kill someone, with success. It is
>> >> not necessary to have had a specific person in mind. The
>> >> classic examples are shooting into a crowd, or setting off a
>> >> bomb - it's quite likely that someone will die, no matter who
>> >> was unlucky that day. 
>> >> 
>> >> It's Attempted Murder if intended but no success - it's the 
>> >> thought that counts. 
>> >> 
>> >> Second-degree Murder, also known in some states as negligent 
>> >> homicide. Requires action, but no intent to kill, but with 
>> >> success. This is the typical charge when an automobile
>> >> accident leads to a death. Another example is an industrial
>> >> accident. 
>> >> 
>> >> There is no such thing as attempted second-degree murder, for 
>> >> lack of murderous intent. 
>> > 
>> > You would think that - and it has been argued in court exactly 
>> > that way... but I know someone who was convicted and sentenced
>> > for attempted second degree murder. I read the documents
>> > submitted attempting to overthrow the conviction. It didn't fly
>> > in Florida. The crime met every aspect of the requirements for
>> > second degree murder (not exactly as you state them, but that
>> > varies between states) except the body wasn't dead when they
>> > loaded it in the trunk to dispose of it. 
>> > 
>> > The example of auto accident might not suffice to reach second 
>> > degree murder in Florida. There they require you to be
>> > committing a felony that could be expected to result in death
>> > without intent of causing a death. So if the manner of driving
>> > the auto in the deadly accident was not sufficient to be
>> > committing a felony that could be expected to result in death
>> > it would not be second degree murder, while it could be
>> > manslaughter. 
>> > 
>> > 
>> >> If it turns out that someone did slip a live (meaning with a
>> >> lead bullet and powder) round into the pistol that Alex
>> >> Baldwin later used on set, whoever meddled with that pistol
>> >> will likely be charged with first-degree murder, unless the
>> >> law cannot figure out and prove beyond a reasonable doubt who
>> >> did it. 
>> > 
>> > I think that is very clearly not first degree murder since it
>> > was only a remote possibility someone would have been killed by
>> > the bullet. In fact I think it was very unlikely someone would
>> > have been killed. You give a definition of first degree murder
>> > above, but you don't say that is the definition in New Mexico
>> > where the killing took place. 
>> >
>> The assistant director is the guy supposed to hand a gun to an 
>> actor AFTER the armourer hands it to the AD. That did not happen 
>> here AND when asked by the investigators, he said he 'could not 
>> remember how well he checked the gun'. WHAT? can't remember? I 
>> would remember every single second. Something is not right with
>> that crew. 
>> 
>> I cannot help but think that it is Trump related, because there
>> are so many absolute idiots out there following the dope, and
>> guess what... they hate Alec Baldwin.
> 
> DecayedBrainMatter has just come up with the MOST BIZARRE excuse
> for Baldwin: the prosecutors are after him because they love Trump
> and hate Baldwin! 
> 

  No idiot.  I said it could have been a crew member you putz.  I 
NEVER once said any fucking thing about any prosecutor.

  You are an illiterate dumbfuck.

On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 6:09:12 PM UTC-8, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> Flyguy <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote in 
> news:e13892dd-6343-4a59...@googlegroups.com:
> > On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 10:26:41 PM UTC-7, 
> > DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote: 
> >> Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in 
> >> news:3334648a-ba3e-4c54...@googlegroups.com: 
> >> > On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 5:24:50 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn 
> >> > wrote: 
> >> >> In the US, there is no single set of terms for the kinds of 
> >> >> homicide. The federal government has one set, and each state 
> >> >> has its own. They are very similar in principle, but are not 
> >> >> identical, and may be named and worded quite differently. 
> >> >> 
> >> >> Most of US law evolved from English Law, except for the 
> >> >> Louisiana Purchase states, which instead evolved from the 
> >> >> Napoleonic Code of France. New Mexico law likely evolved from 
> >> >> English Law. 
> >> >> 
> >> >> Not all kinds of homicide are considered murder. The main 
> >> >> kinds (by whatever name) are as follows (by some old 
> >> >> definition from California?): 
> >> >> 
> >> >> First-degree Murder, for which one could be executed. Requires 
> >> >> the action and the intent to kill someone, with success. It is 
> >> >> not necessary to have had a specific person in mind. The 
> >> >> classic examples are shooting into a crowd, or setting off a 
> >> >> bomb - it's quite likely that someone will die, no matter who 
> >> >> was unlucky that day. 
> >> >> 
> >> >> It's Attempted Murder if intended but no success - it's the 
> >> >> thought that counts. 
> >> >> 
> >> >> Second-degree Murder, also known in some states as negligent 
> >> >> homicide. Requires action, but no intent to kill, but with 
> >> >> success. This is the typical charge when an automobile 
> >> >> accident leads to a death. Another example is an industrial 
> >> >> accident. 
> >> >> 
> >> >> There is no such thing as attempted second-degree murder, for 
> >> >> lack of murderous intent. 
> >> > 
> >> > You would think that - and it has been argued in court exactly 
> >> > that way... but I know someone who was convicted and sentenced 
> >> > for attempted second degree murder. I read the documents 
> >> > submitted attempting to overthrow the conviction. It didn't fly 
> >> > in Florida. The crime met every aspect of the requirements for 
> >> > second degree murder (not exactly as you state them, but that 
> >> > varies between states) except the body wasn't dead when they 
> >> > loaded it in the trunk to dispose of it. 
> >> > 
> >> > The example of auto accident might not suffice to reach second 
> >> > degree murder in Florida. There they require you to be 
> >> > committing a felony that could be expected to result in death 
> >> > without intent of causing a death. So if the manner of driving 
> >> > the auto in the deadly accident was not sufficient to be 
> >> > committing a felony that could be expected to result in death 
> >> > it would not be second degree murder, while it could be 
> >> > manslaughter. 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> >> If it turns out that someone did slip a live (meaning with a 
> >> >> lead bullet and powder) round into the pistol that Alex 
> >> >> Baldwin later used on set, whoever meddled with that pistol 
> >> >> will likely be charged with first-degree murder, unless the 
> >> >> law cannot figure out and prove beyond a reasonable doubt who 
> >> >> did it. 
> >> > 
> >> > I think that is very clearly not first degree murder since it 
> >> > was only a remote possibility someone would have been killed by 
> >> > the bullet. In fact I think it was very unlikely someone would 
> >> > have been killed. You give a definition of first degree murder 
> >> > above, but you don't say that is the definition in New Mexico 
> >> > where the killing took place. 
> >> > 
> >> The assistant director is the guy supposed to hand a gun to an 
> >> actor AFTER the armourer hands it to the AD. That did not happen 
> >> here AND when asked by the investigators, he said he 'could not 
> >> remember how well he checked the gun'. WHAT? can't remember? I 
> >> would remember every single second. Something is not right with 
> >> that crew. 
> >> 
> >> I cannot help but think that it is Trump related, because there 
> >> are so many absolute idiots out there following the dope, and 
> >> guess what... they hate Alec Baldwin. 
> > 
> > DecayedBrainMatter has just come up with the MOST BIZARRE excuse 
> > for Baldwin: the prosecutors are after him because they love Trump 
> > and hate Baldwin! 
> >
> No idiot. I said it could have been a crew member you putz. I 
> NEVER once said any fucking thing about any prosecutor. 
> 
> You are an illiterate dumbfuck.

Same difference. At least you spelled "dumbfuck" correctly this time...