On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:35:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:> On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 2:06:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote: > > On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 1:08:09 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote: > > > > > Electric vehicle batteries are about 85% efficient, but the 15% of the energy that you put in that you don't get out has to appear as heat, generated in the battery. > > > > > > The worst case would presumably be during fast charging. > > > > > > One has to wonder whether anybody has built a battery with heat-pipe down the middle, sticking into heat-sink extrusions projecting from either end. > > > > > > Nobody seems to do it, so it clearly isn't strictly necessary, but roughly halving the peak temperature inside the battery should make them last longer. > > > > Sloman doesn't understand batteries or electric vehicles much, that is clear. > > Neither does Flyguy, but Flyguy is much too stupid to appreciate how little he understands.It is obvious that I understand them a hell of a lot MORE than you do! You have claimed that LIB don't burn, for example, provably false.> > Most of the energy loss in electric cars is in the electronics, not the battery. For example, charging accounts for up to 25% of energy loss: > > https://www.smart2zero.com/news/25-energy-loss-when-charging-electric-vehicles-tests-show Energy loss in the battery is the result of its internal resistance, which is, by design, very low. > > Here is a more intelligent review of the losses (scratch "more'): > > https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv-ev.shtml > I was talking about the power put into the battery and subsequently taken out again. What the car does with it after it has left the battery didn't come into it - that heat is dissipated elsewhere, and isn't interesting in this particular context (which Flyguy seems to have ignored - that sort of stuff is too complicated for him to follow).You don't know WHAT you are talking about. You change your story once I show you have your head up your ass.> > Electric car manufacturers keep battery temperatures down because heat literally destroys the batteries. > " Roughly halving the peak temperature inside the battery should make them last longer" > expresses much the same sentiment, but Flyguy can't understand this.Fuck you SL0WMAN - I STATED that very clearly, you idiot!> <snip>More snipping by the idiot who complains that I SNIP!
Cooling an electric vehicle battery.
Started by ●September 9, 2021
Reply by ●September 10, 20212021-09-10
Reply by ●September 10, 20212021-09-10
On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 4:23:40 PM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:> On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 11:49:49 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote: > > On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 4:52:12 AM UTC+10, Cydrome Leader wrote: > > > Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 6:54:04 AM UTC-7, bitrex wrote: > > > >> On 9/9/2021 9:48 AM, bitrex wrote: > > > >> > On 9/9/2021 9:42 AM, Ed Lee wrote: > > > >> >> On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 1:29:02 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk > > > >> >> wrote: > > > >> >>> torsdag den 9. september 2021 kl. 10.08.09 UTC+2 skrev > > > >> >>> bill....@ieee.org: > > > >> >>>> Electric vehicle batteries are about 85% efficient, but the 15% of > > > >> >>>> the energy that you put in that you don't get out has to appear as > > > >> >>>> heat, generated in the battery. > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>>> The worst case would presumably be during fast charging. > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>>> One has to wonder whether anybody has built a battery with heat-pipe > > > >> >>>> down the middle, sticking into heat-sink extrusions projecting from > > > >> >>>> either end. > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>>> Nobody seems to do it, so it clearly isn't strictly necessary, but > > > >> >>>> roughly halving the peak temperature inside the battery should make > > > >> >>>> them last longer. > > > >> >>>> > > > >> >>> Tesla batteries are liquid cooled (or heated when needed), there's a > > > >> >>> glykol filled flat tube that zig-zag between the cells > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Same for the Bolt, there are heat transfer plates between cells, with > > > >> >> small pipes zz over the flat plate. > > <snip> > > > Batteries are not made of air currents,and conduction is usually able to transfer more heat than convection anyways. > > Heat pipes transfer heat by evaporating a liquid into a space that contains only the vapour form of that liquid and condensing the vapour somewhere else. > > > > That transfers heat a lot faster than conduction or even forced convection (as with liquid being pumped through as system). > > > > The latent heat of evaporation of a liquid is a whole lot higher than the heat capacity of the same mass of liquid, and the vapour has a much lower viscosity than the liquid. You can really move a lot of heat really fast that way. > > How well does it work at temperatures other than the point of evaporation? Say a battery is optimal at 80°C. How well does the heat pipe work at 0°C when the battery needs to be warmed?That's the charm of heat-pipes. Evaporation happens at all temperatures - the residual pressure inside the heat pipe is determined by temperature at the point where the working fluid condenses. There is no fixed temperature where evaporation starts. And the vapour moves very fast towards that coldest point. I can remember gas literally whistling through my vacuum line when I was doing vacuum distillations. If you cooled the condensing point below 0 Celcius, it would be hard to get frozen water back to where it could evaporate, but there are other working fluids - I used methyl cyclohexane which stays liquid down to -126 Celcius, and still only boils at 101 Celcius when I was a graduate student and needed a cool slush bath for moving stuff around my vacuum line. It should work fine in a heat pipe. if not quite as well as water. -- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ●September 10, 20212021-09-10
On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 12:24:10 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:> On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:06:26 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote: > > On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 1:08:09 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote: > > > Electric vehicle batteries are about 85% efficient, but the 15% of the energy that you put in that you don't get out has to appear as heat, generated in the battery. > > > > > > The worst case would presumably be during fast charging. > > > > > > One has to wonder whether anybody has built a battery with heat-pipe down the middle, sticking into heat-sink extrusions projecting from either end. > > > > > > Nobody seems to do it, so it clearly isn't strictly necessary, but roughly halving the peak temperature inside the battery should make them last longer. > > > > > > -- > > > SL0WMAN, Sydney > > > > SL0WMAN doesn't understand batteries or electric vehicles much, that is clear. Most of the energy loss in electric cars is in the electronics, not the battery. For example, charging accounts for up to 25% of energy loss: > > https://www.smart2zero.com/news/25-energy-loss-when-charging-electric-vehicles-tests-show Energy loss in the battery is the result of its internal resistance, which is, by design, very low. > > Here is a more intelligent review of the losses (scratch "more'): > > https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv-ev.shtml > > Electric car manufacturers keep battery temperatures down because heat literally destroys the batteries. The Leaf did not do this and suffers from much faster battery degradation than Tesla. > It's a matter of how much money you are throwing at the cooling issue. Leaf opted for simplicity and safety and completely sealed the battery. Since it had relatively low incidences of fire, we might be able to relax the safety concern. Namely, opening accesses from the top cover.Do you have any evidence to say the Nissan battery has a lower incidence of fire than the Tesla batteries?> This guy has the right idea of blowing A/C air into the HV cut-off port, but not going far enough. Modifying or simply removing the top cover would allow cold air to blow in from the center and out of the sides. > > https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-leaf-battery-cooling-160671This is the sort of absurd stuff you are famous for. Just buy an EV that actually works properly. -- Rick C. ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●September 10, 20212021-09-10
On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 11:46:08 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:> On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 12:24:10 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:06:26 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote: > > > On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 1:08:09 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote: > > > > Electric vehicle batteries are about 85% efficient, but the 15% of the energy that you put in that you don't get out has to appear as heat, generated in the battery. > > > > > > > > The worst case would presumably be during fast charging. > > > > > > > > One has to wonder whether anybody has built a battery with heat-pipe down the middle, sticking into heat-sink extrusions projecting from either end. > > > > > > > > Nobody seems to do it, so it clearly isn't strictly necessary, but roughly halving the peak temperature inside the battery should make them last longer. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > SL0WMAN, Sydney > > > > > > SL0WMAN doesn't understand batteries or electric vehicles much, that is clear. Most of the energy loss in electric cars is in the electronics, not the battery. For example, charging accounts for up to 25% of energy loss: > > > https://www.smart2zero.com/news/25-energy-loss-when-charging-electric-vehicles-tests-show Energy loss in the battery is the result of its internal resistance, which is, by design, very low. > > > Here is a more intelligent review of the losses (scratch "more'): > > > https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv-ev.shtml > > > Electric car manufacturers keep battery temperatures down because heat literally destroys the batteries. The Leaf did not do this and suffers from much faster battery degradation than Tesla. > > It's a matter of how much money you are throwing at the cooling issue. Leaf opted for simplicity and safety and completely sealed the battery. Since it had relatively low incidences of fire, we might be able to relax the safety concern. Namely, opening accesses from the top cover. > Do you have any evidence to say the Nissan battery has a lower incidence of fire than the Tesla batteries?There is only one known case for the Leaf. 21 for Tesla. 20 for Bolt. Leaf: 1. September 1, 2015, Flower Mound, Texas Tesla: 1. October 1, 2013, Model S, Kent, Washington 2. October 18, 2013, Modl S, in Merida, Mexico 3. November 6, 2013, Model S, Murfreesboro, Tennessee 4. November 15, 2013, Model S, Irvine, California 5. January 1, 2016, Model S, Norway 6. August 15, 2016, Model S 90D, Biarritz, France 7. August 25, 2017, Model X Forest, California, 8. May 8, 2018, Model S 9. May 10, 2018, Model S, Monte Ceneri. Germany 10. June 16, 2018, Model S, Los Angeles, California 11. February 8, 2019, Model S, Pittsburgh. PA 12. February 24, 2019, Model S, Davie, Florida 13. February 24, 2019, Model X, Lake Champlain. 14. April 21, 2019, Model S, Shanghai, China. 15. May 4, 2019, Model S, 16. May 13, 2019, Model S, Hong Kong. 17. June 1, 2019, Model S, Belgium. 18. August 10, 2019, Model 3, Moscow, Russia 19. November 12, 2019, Model X, Chester, England. 20. January 19, 2021, Model 3, Shanghai, China 21. July 2021, Model S Plaid> > This guy has the right idea of blowing A/C air into the HV cut-off port, but not going far enough. Modifying or simply removing the top cover would allow cold air to blow in from the center and out of the sides. > > > > https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-leaf-battery-cooling-160671 > This is the sort of absurd stuff you are famous for. Just buy an EV that actually works properly.Leaf works fine with the simple topless fix.
Reply by ●September 10, 20212021-09-10
On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 4:44:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:> On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:35:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote: > > On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 2:06:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote: > > > On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 1:08:09 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:<snip>> > > Sloman doesn't understand batteries or electric vehicles much, that is clear. > > > > Neither does Flyguy, but Flyguy is much too stupid to appreciate how little he understands. > > It is obvious that I understand them a hell of a lot MORE than you do! You have claimed that LIB don't burn, for example, provably false.Flyguy is confident of the depth and perfection of his own understanding. That's just one of his idiotic delusions. <snip>> You don't know WHAT you are talking about. You change your story once I show you have your head up your ass.You do seem to want to think that. You obviously don't understand what I am actually saying, so the problem is that your head is up your own ass.> > > Electric car manufacturers keep battery temperatures down because heat literally destroys the batteries. > > > > " Roughly halving the peak temperature inside the battery should make them last longer" > > expresses much the same sentiment, but Flyguy can't understand this. > > Fuck you Sloman - I STATED that very clearly, you idiot!But I said it first, so you didn't need to bother. <snip>> More snipping by the idiot who complains that I SNIP!No, I complain that you text-chop, which I don't. Flyguy's efforts are pathetic, but he doesn't seem to appreciate quite how obviously pathetic they are. It would be sad, if he wasn't such an unpleasant creep. -- Bill Sloman, sydney
Reply by ●September 10, 20212021-09-10
On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 8:37:45 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:> On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 9:23:02 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 11:46:08 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 12:24:10 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:06:26 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote: > > > > > On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 1:08:09 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote: > > > > > > Electric vehicle batteries are about 85% efficient, but the 15% of the energy that you put in that you don't get out has to appear as heat, generated in the battery. > > > > > > > > > > > > The worst case would presumably be during fast charging. > > > > > > > > > > > > One has to wonder whether anybody has built a battery with heat-pipe down the middle, sticking into heat-sink extrusions projecting from either end. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody seems to do it, so it clearly isn't strictly necessary, but roughly halving the peak temperature inside the battery should make them last longer. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > SL0WMAN, Sydney > > > > > > > > > > SL0WMAN doesn't understand batteries or electric vehicles much, that is clear. Most of the energy loss in electric cars is in the electronics, not the battery. For example, charging accounts for up to 25% of energy loss: > > > > > https://www.smart2zero.com/news/25-energy-loss-when-charging-electric-vehicles-tests-show Energy loss in the battery is the result of its internal resistance, which is, by design, very low. > > > > > Here is a more intelligent review of the losses (scratch "more'): > > > > > https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv-ev.shtml > > > > > Electric car manufacturers keep battery temperatures down because heat literally destroys the batteries. The Leaf did not do this and suffers from much faster battery degradation than Tesla. > > > > It's a matter of how much money you are throwing at the cooling issue. Leaf opted for simplicity and safety and completely sealed the battery. Since it had relatively low incidences of fire, we might be able to relax the safety concern. Namely, opening accesses from the top cover. > > > Do you have any evidence to say the Nissan battery has a lower incidence of fire than the Tesla batteries? > > There is only one known case for the Leaf. 21 for Tesla. 20 for Bolt. > > > > Leaf: > > 1. September 1, 2015, Flower Mound, Texas > > > > Tesla: > > 1. October 1, 2013, Model S, Kent, Washington > > 2. October 18, 2013, Modl S, in Merida, Mexico > > 3. November 6, 2013, Model S, Murfreesboro, Tennessee > > 4. November 15, 2013, Model S, Irvine, California > > 5. January 1, 2016, Model S, Norway > > 6. August 15, 2016, Model S 90D, Biarritz, France > > 7. August 25, 2017, Model X Forest, California, > > 8. May 8, 2018, Model S > > 9. May 10, 2018, Model S, Monte Ceneri. Germany > > 10. June 16, 2018, Model S, Los Angeles, California > > 11. February 8, 2019, Model S, Pittsburgh. PA > > 12. February 24, 2019, Model S, Davie, Florida > > 13. February 24, 2019, Model X, Lake Champlain. > > 14. April 21, 2019, Model S, Shanghai, China. > > 15. May 4, 2019, Model S, > > 16. May 13, 2019, Model S, Hong Kong. > > 17. June 1, 2019, Model S, Belgium. > > 18. August 10, 2019, Model 3, Moscow, Russia > > 19. November 12, 2019, Model X, Chester, England. > > 20. January 19, 2021, Model 3, Shanghai, China > > 21. July 2021, Model S Plaid> "Known" cases. How many unknown cases of Nissans catching fire? Tesla always gets the bad press because it is the guy on top of the heap and everyone likes to find every problem with it. I believe there are 150,000 ICE fires each year in the US. None of these EV numbers indicate a "problem" in comparison.Same ratio as unknown Tesla fire. There are lots of "totalled" Leaf with battery intact. Not too many with Tesla.> > > > This guy has the right idea of blowing A/C air into the HV cut-off port, but not going far enough. Modifying or simply removing the top cover would allow cold air to blow in from the center and out of the sides. > > > > > > > > https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-leaf-battery-cooling-160671 > > > This is the sort of absurd stuff you are famous for. Just buy an EV that actually works properly. > > Leaf works fine with the simple topless fix. > If it works "fine", why does it need a fix?It will work better.> Why not just buy a car that works without home brew, jury rigged modifications???Leaf works well enough for me. I just need to find the right time and place to do it. Lower the battery. Remove the cover. Make several taps into the modules. Remount the battery. Should take a day or two, mostly making the taps from the main battery to my spares in the door frame and under the hood. The main concern is water getting into the HV switch port. I would cap the host when not in use. As shown in my accidental experimental incident, the Leaf floats on water. So, the risk of water flooding the battery is very low.
Reply by ●September 10, 20212021-09-10
On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 11:50:15 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:> On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 8:37:45 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 9:23:02 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 11:46:08 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 12:24:10 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:06:26 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote: > > > > > > On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 1:08:09 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote: > > > > > > > Electric vehicle batteries are about 85% efficient, but the 15% of the energy that you put in that you don't get out has to appear as heat, generated in the battery. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The worst case would presumably be during fast charging. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One has to wonder whether anybody has built a battery with heat-pipe down the middle, sticking into heat-sink extrusions projecting from either end. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody seems to do it, so it clearly isn't strictly necessary, but roughly halving the peak temperature inside the battery should make them last longer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > SL0WMAN, Sydney > > > > > > > > > > > > SL0WMAN doesn't understand batteries or electric vehicles much, that is clear. Most of the energy loss in electric cars is in the electronics, not the battery. For example, charging accounts for up to 25% of energy loss: > > > > > > https://www.smart2zero.com/news/25-energy-loss-when-charging-electric-vehicles-tests-show Energy loss in the battery is the result of its internal resistance, which is, by design, very low. > > > > > > Here is a more intelligent review of the losses (scratch "more'): > > > > > > https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv-ev.shtml > > > > > > Electric car manufacturers keep battery temperatures down because heat literally destroys the batteries. The Leaf did not do this and suffers from much faster battery degradation than Tesla. > > > > > It's a matter of how much money you are throwing at the cooling issue. Leaf opted for simplicity and safety and completely sealed the battery. Since it had relatively low incidences of fire, we might be able to relax the safety concern. Namely, opening accesses from the top cover. > > > > Do you have any evidence to say the Nissan battery has a lower incidence of fire than the Tesla batteries? > > > There is only one known case for the Leaf. 21 for Tesla. 20 for Bolt. > > > > > > Leaf: > > > 1. September 1, 2015, Flower Mound, Texas > > > > > > Tesla: > > > 1. October 1, 2013, Model S, Kent, Washington > > > 2. October 18, 2013, Modl S, in Merida, Mexico > > > 3. November 6, 2013, Model S, Murfreesboro, Tennessee > > > 4. November 15, 2013, Model S, Irvine, California > > > 5. January 1, 2016, Model S, Norway > > > 6. August 15, 2016, Model S 90D, Biarritz, France > > > 7. August 25, 2017, Model X Forest, California, > > > 8. May 8, 2018, Model S > > > 9. May 10, 2018, Model S, Monte Ceneri. Germany > > > 10. June 16, 2018, Model S, Los Angeles, California > > > 11. February 8, 2019, Model S, Pittsburgh. PA > > > 12. February 24, 2019, Model S, Davie, Florida > > > 13. February 24, 2019, Model X, Lake Champlain. > > > 14. April 21, 2019, Model S, Shanghai, China. > > > 15. May 4, 2019, Model S, > > > 16. May 13, 2019, Model S, Hong Kong. > > > 17. June 1, 2019, Model S, Belgium. > > > 18. August 10, 2019, Model 3, Moscow, Russia > > > 19. November 12, 2019, Model X, Chester, England. > > > 20. January 19, 2021, Model 3, Shanghai, China > > > 21. July 2021, Model S Plaid > > > "Known" cases. How many unknown cases of Nissans catching fire? Tesla always gets the bad press because it is the guy on top of the heap and everyone likes to find every problem with it. I believe there are 150,000 ICE fires each year in the US. None of these EV numbers indicate a "problem" in comparison. > Same ratio as unknown Tesla fire. There are lots of "totalled" Leaf with battery intact. Not too many with Tesla. > > > > > This guy has the right idea of blowing A/C air into the HV cut-off port, but not going far enough. Modifying or simply removing the top cover would allow cold air to blow in from the center and out of the sides. > > > > > > > > > > https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-leaf-battery-cooling-160671 > > > > This is the sort of absurd stuff you are famous for. Just buy an EV that actually works properly. > > > Leaf works fine with the simple topless fix. > > If it works "fine", why does it need a fix? > It will work better. > > Why not just buy a car that works without home brew, jury rigged modifications??? > Leaf works well enough for me. I just need to find the right time and place to do it. Lower the battery. Remove the cover. Make several taps into the modules. Remount the battery. Should take a day or two, mostly making the taps from the main battery to my spares in the door frame and under the hood.The key part of that is "for me". You seem to have tolerance for things no one else on earth has. You bought an EV with 50 miles of range or less and spend hours and hours sitting at level 2 chargers on trips over 100 miles. In some cases you have had to plug into 120V outlets. No one else in the world wants to deal with that nonsense. You are literally the poster child for range anxiety, sitting at a closed gas station trying to get another kWh on your car so you can get to the next gas station. You are going to kill yourself with these mods to car. You are the sort of person they create the "idiot" laws for.> The main concern is water getting into the HV switch port. I would cap the host when not in use. As shown in my accidental experimental incident, the Leaf floats on water. So, the risk of water flooding the battery is very low.LOL!!! -- Rick C. --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●September 10, 20212021-09-10
On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 9:01:56 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:> On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 11:50:15 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 8:37:45 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 9:23:02 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 11:46:08 PM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 12:24:10 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote: > > > > > > On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:06:26 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote: > > > > > > > On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 1:08:09 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote: > > > > > > > > Electric vehicle batteries are about 85% efficient, but the 15% of the energy that you put in that you don't get out has to appear as heat, generated in the battery. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The worst case would presumably be during fast charging. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One has to wonder whether anybody has built a battery with heat-pipe down the middle, sticking into heat-sink extrusions projecting from either end. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody seems to do it, so it clearly isn't strictly necessary, but roughly halving the peak temperature inside the battery should make them last longer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > SL0WMAN, Sydney > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SL0WMAN doesn't understand batteries or electric vehicles much, that is clear. Most of the energy loss in electric cars is in the electronics, not the battery. For example, charging accounts for up to 25% of energy loss: > > > > > > > https://www.smart2zero.com/news/25-energy-loss-when-charging-electric-vehicles-tests-show Energy loss in the battery is the result of its internal resistance, which is, by design, very low. > > > > > > > Here is a more intelligent review of the losses (scratch "more'): > > > > > > > https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv-ev.shtml > > > > > > > Electric car manufacturers keep battery temperatures down because heat literally destroys the batteries. The Leaf did not do this and suffers from much faster battery degradation than Tesla. > > > > > > It's a matter of how much money you are throwing at the cooling issue. Leaf opted for simplicity and safety and completely sealed the battery. Since it had relatively low incidences of fire, we might be able to relax the safety concern. Namely, opening accesses from the top cover. > > > > > Do you have any evidence to say the Nissan battery has a lower incidence of fire than the Tesla batteries? > > > > There is only one known case for the Leaf. 21 for Tesla. 20 for Bolt. > > > > > > > > Leaf: > > > > 1. September 1, 2015, Flower Mound, Texas > > > > > > > > Tesla: > > > > 1. October 1, 2013, Model S, Kent, Washington > > > > 2. October 18, 2013, Modl S, in Merida, Mexico > > > > 3. November 6, 2013, Model S, Murfreesboro, Tennessee > > > > 4. November 15, 2013, Model S, Irvine, California > > > > 5. January 1, 2016, Model S, Norway > > > > 6. August 15, 2016, Model S 90D, Biarritz, France > > > > 7. August 25, 2017, Model X Forest, California, > > > > 8. May 8, 2018, Model S > > > > 9. May 10, 2018, Model S, Monte Ceneri. Germany > > > > 10. June 16, 2018, Model S, Los Angeles, California > > > > 11. February 8, 2019, Model S, Pittsburgh. PA > > > > 12. February 24, 2019, Model S, Davie, Florida > > > > 13. February 24, 2019, Model X, Lake Champlain. > > > > 14. April 21, 2019, Model S, Shanghai, China. > > > > 15. May 4, 2019, Model S, > > > > 16. May 13, 2019, Model S, Hong Kong. > > > > 17. June 1, 2019, Model S, Belgium. > > > > 18. August 10, 2019, Model 3, Moscow, Russia > > > > 19. November 12, 2019, Model X, Chester, England. > > > > 20. January 19, 2021, Model 3, Shanghai, China > > > > 21. July 2021, Model S Plaid > > > > > "Known" cases. How many unknown cases of Nissans catching fire? Tesla always gets the bad press because it is the guy on top of the heap and everyone likes to find every problem with it. I believe there are 150,000 ICE fires each year in the US. None of these EV numbers indicate a "problem" in comparison. > > Same ratio as unknown Tesla fire. There are lots of "totalled" Leaf with battery intact. Not too many with Tesla. > > > > > > This guy has the right idea of blowing A/C air into the HV cut-off port, but not going far enough. Modifying or simply removing the top cover would allow cold air to blow in from the center and out of the sides. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-leaf-battery-cooling-160671 > > > > > This is the sort of absurd stuff you are famous for. Just buy an EV that actually works properly. > > > > Leaf works fine with the simple topless fix. > > > If it works "fine", why does it need a fix? > > It will work better. > > > Why not just buy a car that works without home brew, jury rigged modifications??? > > Leaf works well enough for me. I just need to find the right time and place to do it. Lower the battery. Remove the cover. Make several taps into the modules. Remount the battery. Should take a day or two, mostly making the taps from the main battery to my spares in the door frame and under the hood. > The key part of that is "for me". You seem to have tolerance for things no one else on earth has. You bought an EV with 50 miles of range or less and spend hours and hours sitting at level 2 chargers on trips over 100 miles. In some cases you have had to plug into 120V outlets. No one else in the world wants to deal with that nonsense. You are literally the poster child for range anxiety, sitting at a closed gas station trying to get another kWh on your car so you can get to the next gas station.Not anymore. There are at least 30 FREE FAST chargers in California. For those I use, there are 5 on 99, 3 on I-5, 2 on I-15 and 1 on I-58. I only need 3 to 4 L2 if i want to avoid paying for fast charging. No need for this:> --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging > --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209There are many more totally FREE FAST chargers than Tesla's.
Reply by ●September 10, 20212021-09-10
> You are going to kill yourself with these mods to car. You are the sort of person they create the "idiot" laws for.My taps will be 100V to 150V. If you are afraid of the little electricity, you are in the wrong news group.
Reply by ●September 10, 20212021-09-10
On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 12:51:35 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:> > You are going to kill yourself with these mods to car. You are the sort of person they create the "idiot" laws for. > My taps will be 100V to 150V. If you are afraid of the little electricity, you are in the wrong news group.You are proving my point. You don't even understand what I'm talking about, but that's par for the course. -- Rick C. -+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
