Using Flash RAM to replace obsolete CMOS RAM

Started by John Robertson June 29, 2021
On 2021/07/01 5:33 a.m., Don Y wrote:
> On 7/1/2021 4:30 AM, Rob wrote: >> Clive Arthur <> wrote: >>> On 29/06/2021 18:19, John Robertson wrote: >>>> I have a project in mind using small Flash RAM and a cheap CPU to >>>> substitute for the old TTL level CMOS RAM used on arcade games. >>>> >>>> This has come up because the NVRAM that is currently being used is >>>> getting hard to find at prices under $7 to $9USD. >>>> >>>> Something like the M25P05-AVMN6P (512k or 64K x 8) or similar chips are >>>> $0.20 in single quantities. >>>> >>>> The size of CMOS RAM we are replacing ranges from 512 x 4 (yeah, 512 >>>> bits) up to 256K x 8 (perhaps the AT25SF041B-SHB-T?). >>>> >>>> Granted this will take a bit of programming but I don't know if it is >>>> possible to start with before I want to invest any time/money into this >>>> project. I mean we can use batteries until the current shortage in >>>> NVRAM >>>> is over, but that isn't as much fun. >>>> >>>> Also, we need to get past the doom & gloom crap I'm seeing here. >>>> >>>> John ;-#)# >>> >>> One approach might be to use normal static RAM with a small uC attached >>> and sufficient capacitance to keep the uC running long enough to copy >>> the RAM contents to flash, maybe in the uC itself, maybe not.&nbsp; On power >>> up the uC would refill the RAM.&nbsp; You'd probably need to MUX the RAM I/O. >>> >>> This could be transparent to the host.&nbsp; You might need to delay the >>> host's power on reset. >> >> I think he already has circuitry for CMOS RAM so unless it is one of >> those devices with built-in battery, the whole backup thing is already >> on the circuit board and he only needs to emulate the RAM. >> >> When the unreasonable price is only because of a rarely used package >> (DIP-28?) it could be considered to use an SMD-to-DIP adapter PCB. > > Devices of that era did not use "fancy" NVRAM *modules* (with built-in > battery).&nbsp; Instead, the nonvolatile aspect was provided by additional > circuitry on the board -- a backup power source, diode switch to allow > Vcc to override that, and some gating circuitry on CS that was also > powered from the backup power (often just a transistor used as a switch > because it used less power than a gate). > > [Cost is a key issue.&nbsp; There's lots of development cost and labor cost > in making arcade pieces.&nbsp; And, the *normal* market window for a particular > "model" can be as short as 90 days!] > > Often, the designer relied on entropy instead of adding additional > circuitry > to truly "safely" protect the device's contents (i.e., assume it won't be > accessed often; assume power cycles are infrequent; assume the chance of > a particular write cycle being cut short are effectively zero; use > independent > checksums on the different parts (uses) of the device so you can maximize > your chance of recovering useful data in the event Murphy strikes. > > Common RAMs used would be 256x4 (5101), 2Kx8 devices (2016), 8Kx8 devices > (6264, 2064), 32Kx8 devices (62256) -- even if used in 8Kx8 (or smaller) > sites, etc.&nbsp; [there was a time when moto sold 32Kbit DRAMs -- 64Kbit > devices that had a faulty cell in one half of the device (or the other); > if we couldn't otherwise get 16Kb devices -- and didn't want to pay for > a REAL 64Kb device -- the 32Kb orphan was a great option!]&nbsp; They'd be > chosen for low standby current but what-it-was-is-what-it-is! > > If the OP is seeing demand for a "replacement module", it is likely > indicative that some aspect of the backup circuitry is failing (these > machines are 30-40 years old, now).&nbsp; Batteries. > > The current user will likely be some Jamoke who bought a machine for his > basement/garage/game room and has the technical aptitude of a bowl of > petunias.&nbsp; You wouldn't trust him patching a board, unsoldering devices, > etc. > > But, replacing a SOCKETED component is something he can be taught > to do -- CAREFULLY ("buyer assumes all risks"). > > So, you want to sell him a device that is truly nonvolatile and > doesn't require "maintenance" on his part (replacing batteries). > And, you don't want him to be able to make a bad decision in any > of that maintenance (e.g., buying the wrong battery chemistry, > inserting a battery BACKWARDS, etc.) > > A 2021 design can leverage the reduced standby currents of more > modern devices to extend the service interval between battery > changes. > > Or, as the OP hopes, rely on a different technology, altogether, > to provide that data persistence. > > BUT, whatever you do has to LOOK like a CMOS RAM of that era, > physically and electrically.&nbsp; If you use a FLASH device, you > can tolerate a low number of write cycles by simply only updating the > FLASH on power fail.&nbsp; 10,000+ power cycles takes a really long time! > > You just need a way of making it LOOK like a RAM, "most of the time".
Hi Clive, Nice to hear from you! Yes, looking like a RAM only when needed is the goal. There have been some interesting suggestions to explore, plus the folks who said why other directions are mostly pointless is also appreciated. John :-#)#