søndag den 2. maj 2021 kl. 18.30.50 UTC+2 skrev Cursitor Doom:> On Sun, 2 May 2021 08:22:47 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > >On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 2:02:38 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: > >> On Sat, 1 May 2021 22:20:19 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> >On Saturday, May 1, 2021 at 6:48:21 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: > > > >> >> Is it feasible to PWM a car starter motor or is there just too much > >> >> reactance in them? > > > >> >For starting a car, you don't need any control except on/off. And, you > >> >don't make the motor good at keeping itself cool. So, what's the > >> >non-automotive application that benefits from PWM? > > > >> Proprietory ideas abound. Why not use your imagination? > > > >Classically, for a burst one uses a regular-old-motor and a flywheel. > >An electric clutch doesn't need PWM, and doesn't dim the lights when > >engaged. > I'm familiar with that system but AFAIK it requires the flywheel to be > running *all* the time. I know they don't consume much energy to keep > 'em running once they're up there at speed, but nevertheless, they do > still need to be powered constantly. Plus a flywheel by it's very > nature has to be *big* and *heavy* so that's a non-starter for my > purposes, I'm afraid.doesn't need t orun all the time, just needs to be "charged" before you need the torque, https://youtu.be/ROnb5ouBjNc?t=65 how much torque do you need?
PWM for High-Torque Motors
Started by ●May 1, 2021
Reply by ●May 2, 20212021-05-02
Reply by ●May 2, 20212021-05-02
On Sun, 2 May 2021 09:55:42 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:>s�ndag den 2. maj 2021 kl. 18.30.50 UTC+2 skrev Cursitor Doom: >> On Sun, 2 May 2021 08:22:47 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 2:02:38 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> >> On Sat, 1 May 2021 22:20:19 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >On Saturday, May 1, 2021 at 6:48:21 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> > >> >> >> Is it feasible to PWM a car starter motor or is there just too much >> >> >> reactance in them? >> > >> >> >For starting a car, you don't need any control except on/off. And, you >> >> >don't make the motor good at keeping itself cool. So, what's the >> >> >non-automotive application that benefits from PWM? >> > >> >> Proprietory ideas abound. Why not use your imagination? >> > >> >Classically, for a burst one uses a regular-old-motor and a flywheel. >> >An electric clutch doesn't need PWM, and doesn't dim the lights when >> >engaged. >> I'm familiar with that system but AFAIK it requires the flywheel to be >> running *all* the time. I know they don't consume much energy to keep >> 'em running once they're up there at speed, but nevertheless, they do >> still need to be powered constantly. Plus a flywheel by it's very >> nature has to be *big* and *heavy* so that's a non-starter for my >> purposes, I'm afraid. > >doesn't need t orun all the time, just needs to be "charged" before >you need the torque, https://youtu.be/ROnb5ouBjNc?t=65Hmmm. Still doesn't do it for me I'm afraid.>how much torque do you need?Nothing stratospheric. 7.5 ft-lb should do the trick.
Reply by ●May 2, 20212021-05-02
søndag den 2. maj 2021 kl. 19.30.51 UTC+2 skrev Cursitor Doom:> On Sun, 2 May 2021 09:55:42 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > > >søndag den 2. maj 2021 kl. 18.30.50 UTC+2 skrev Cursitor Doom: > >> On Sun, 2 May 2021 08:22:47 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> >On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 2:02:38 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: > >> >> On Sat, 1 May 2021 22:20:19 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> >On Saturday, May 1, 2021 at 6:48:21 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: > >> > > >> >> >> Is it feasible to PWM a car starter motor or is there just too much > >> >> >> reactance in them? > >> > > >> >> >For starting a car, you don't need any control except on/off. And, you > >> >> >don't make the motor good at keeping itself cool. So, what's the > >> >> >non-automotive application that benefits from PWM? > >> > > >> >> Proprietory ideas abound. Why not use your imagination? > >> > > >> >Classically, for a burst one uses a regular-old-motor and a flywheel. > >> >An electric clutch doesn't need PWM, and doesn't dim the lights when > >> >engaged. > >> I'm familiar with that system but AFAIK it requires the flywheel to be > >> running *all* the time. I know they don't consume much energy to keep > >> 'em running once they're up there at speed, but nevertheless, they do > >> still need to be powered constantly. Plus a flywheel by it's very > >> nature has to be *big* and *heavy* so that's a non-starter for my > >> purposes, I'm afraid. > > > >doesn't need t orun all the time, just needs to be "charged" before > >you need the torque, https://youtu.be/ROnb5ouBjNc?t=65 > Hmmm. Still doesn't do it for me I'm afraid. > >how much torque do you need? > Nothing stratospheric. 7.5 ft-lb should do the trick.at what speed?
Reply by ●May 2, 20212021-05-02
On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 1:30:51 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:> On Sun, 2 May 2021 09:55:42 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > > >søndag den 2. maj 2021 kl. 18.30.50 UTC+2 skrev Cursitor Doom: > >> On Sun, 2 May 2021 08:22:47 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> >On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 2:02:38 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: > >> >> On Sat, 1 May 2021 22:20:19 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> >On Saturday, May 1, 2021 at 6:48:21 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: > >> > > >> >> >> Is it feasible to PWM a car starter motor or is there just too much > >> >> >> reactance in them? > >> > > >> >> >For starting a car, you don't need any control except on/off. And, you > >> >> >don't make the motor good at keeping itself cool. So, what's the > >> >> >non-automotive application that benefits from PWM? > >> > > >> >> Proprietory ideas abound. Why not use your imagination? > >> > > >> >Classically, for a burst one uses a regular-old-motor and a flywheel. > >> >An electric clutch doesn't need PWM, and doesn't dim the lights when > >> >engaged. > >> I'm familiar with that system but AFAIK it requires the flywheel to be > >> running *all* the time. I know they don't consume much energy to keep > >> 'em running once they're up there at speed, but nevertheless, they do > >> still need to be powered constantly. Plus a flywheel by it's very > >> nature has to be *big* and *heavy* so that's a non-starter for my > >> purposes, I'm afraid. > > > >doesn't need t orun all the time, just needs to be "charged" before > >you need the torque, https://youtu.be/ROnb5ouBjNc?t=65 > Hmmm. Still doesn't do it for me I'm afraid. > >how much torque do you need? > Nothing stratospheric. 7.5 ft-lb should do the trick.What sort of speed? This is a motor that was considered for the vent project. It gets you about 10 ft-lbs at 14 rpm. Gear reduction. Seems to hold up to everything we throw at it, but the output shaft has its limits. -- Rick C. + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●May 2, 20212021-05-02
On Sun, 2 May 2021 11:09:03 -0700 (PDT), Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:>On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 1:30:51 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> On Sun, 2 May 2021 09:55:42 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >> >s�ndag den 2. maj 2021 kl. 18.30.50 UTC+2 skrev Cursitor Doom: >> >> On Sun, 2 May 2021 08:22:47 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 2:02:38 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> >> >> On Sat, 1 May 2021 22:20:19 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >On Saturday, May 1, 2021 at 6:48:21 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> >> Is it feasible to PWM a car starter motor or is there just too much >> >> >> >> reactance in them? >> >> > >> >> >> >For starting a car, you don't need any control except on/off. And, you >> >> >> >don't make the motor good at keeping itself cool. So, what's the >> >> >> >non-automotive application that benefits from PWM? >> >> > >> >> >> Proprietory ideas abound. Why not use your imagination? >> >> > >> >> >Classically, for a burst one uses a regular-old-motor and a flywheel. >> >> >An electric clutch doesn't need PWM, and doesn't dim the lights when >> >> >engaged. >> >> I'm familiar with that system but AFAIK it requires the flywheel to be >> >> running *all* the time. I know they don't consume much energy to keep >> >> 'em running once they're up there at speed, but nevertheless, they do >> >> still need to be powered constantly. Plus a flywheel by it's very >> >> nature has to be *big* and *heavy* so that's a non-starter for my >> >> purposes, I'm afraid. >> > >> >doesn't need t orun all the time, just needs to be "charged" before >> >you need the torque, https://youtu.be/ROnb5ouBjNc?t=65 >> Hmmm. Still doesn't do it for me I'm afraid. >> >how much torque do you need? >> Nothing stratospheric. 7.5 ft-lb should do the trick. > >What sort of speed? This is a motor that was considered for the vent project. It gets you about 10 ft-lbs at 14 rpm. Gear reduction. Seems to hold up to everything we throw at it, but the output shaft has its limits.That's pretty much what I'm looking for, TBH. It'll be reduced by a worm and nut arrangement anyway.
Reply by ●May 2, 20212021-05-02
On Sun, 2 May 2021 11:05:56 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:>s�ndag den 2. maj 2021 kl. 19.30.51 UTC+2 skrev Cursitor Doom: >> On Sun, 2 May 2021 09:55:42 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >> >s�ndag den 2. maj 2021 kl. 18.30.50 UTC+2 skrev Cursitor Doom: >> >> On Sun, 2 May 2021 08:22:47 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 2:02:38 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> >> >> On Sat, 1 May 2021 22:20:19 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >On Saturday, May 1, 2021 at 6:48:21 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> >> Is it feasible to PWM a car starter motor or is there just too much >> >> >> >> reactance in them? >> >> > >> >> >> >For starting a car, you don't need any control except on/off. And, you >> >> >> >don't make the motor good at keeping itself cool. So, what's the >> >> >> >non-automotive application that benefits from PWM? >> >> > >> >> >> Proprietory ideas abound. Why not use your imagination? >> >> > >> >> >Classically, for a burst one uses a regular-old-motor and a flywheel. >> >> >An electric clutch doesn't need PWM, and doesn't dim the lights when >> >> >engaged. >> >> I'm familiar with that system but AFAIK it requires the flywheel to be >> >> running *all* the time. I know they don't consume much energy to keep >> >> 'em running once they're up there at speed, but nevertheless, they do >> >> still need to be powered constantly. Plus a flywheel by it's very >> >> nature has to be *big* and *heavy* so that's a non-starter for my >> >> purposes, I'm afraid. >> > >> >doesn't need t orun all the time, just needs to be "charged" before >> >you need the torque, https://youtu.be/ROnb5ouBjNc?t=65 >> Hmmm. Still doesn't do it for me I'm afraid. >> >how much torque do you need? >> Nothing stratospheric. 7.5 ft-lb should do the trick. >at what speed?See my follow up to Rick C. Don't over think this! I'm just fishing for general and vague ideas at this stage.
Reply by ●May 2, 20212021-05-02
On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 2:26:58 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:> On Sun, 2 May 2021 11:05:56 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > > >søndag den 2. maj 2021 kl. 19.30.51 UTC+2 skrev Cursitor Doom: > >> On Sun, 2 May 2021 09:55:42 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > >> > >> >søndag den 2. maj 2021 kl. 18.30.50 UTC+2 skrev Cursitor Doom: > >> >> On Sun, 2 May 2021 08:22:47 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 2:02:38 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, 1 May 2021 22:20:19 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> >On Saturday, May 1, 2021 at 6:48:21 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> >> Is it feasible to PWM a car starter motor or is there just too much > >> >> >> >> reactance in them? > >> >> > > >> >> >> >For starting a car, you don't need any control except on/off. And, you > >> >> >> >don't make the motor good at keeping itself cool. So, what's the > >> >> >> >non-automotive application that benefits from PWM? > >> >> > > >> >> >> Proprietory ideas abound. Why not use your imagination? > >> >> > > >> >> >Classically, for a burst one uses a regular-old-motor and a flywheel. > >> >> >An electric clutch doesn't need PWM, and doesn't dim the lights when > >> >> >engaged. > >> >> I'm familiar with that system but AFAIK it requires the flywheel to be > >> >> running *all* the time. I know they don't consume much energy to keep > >> >> 'em running once they're up there at speed, but nevertheless, they do > >> >> still need to be powered constantly. Plus a flywheel by it's very > >> >> nature has to be *big* and *heavy* so that's a non-starter for my > >> >> purposes, I'm afraid. > >> > > >> >doesn't need t orun all the time, just needs to be "charged" before > >> >you need the torque, https://youtu.be/ROnb5ouBjNc?t=65 > >> Hmmm. Still doesn't do it for me I'm afraid. > >> >how much torque do you need? > >> Nothing stratospheric. 7.5 ft-lb should do the trick. > >at what speed? > See my follow up to Rick C. Don't over think this! I'm just fishing > for general and vague ideas at this stage.Sorry, forgot to add the link. https://gimsonrobotics.co.uk/categories/dc-electric-motors/products/gr-ep-45e-medium-power-45mm-12v-planetary-gearmotor In the UK. I'm sure there are others in the US. Much smaller than a starter motor, around $40 if I recall. -- Rick C. -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●May 2, 20212021-05-02
On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 2:26:58 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:> On Sun, 2 May 2021 11:05:56 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > > >søndag den 2. maj 2021 kl. 19.30.51 UTC+2 skrev Cursitor Doom: > >> On Sun, 2 May 2021 09:55:42 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen > >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: > >> > >> >søndag den 2. maj 2021 kl. 18.30.50 UTC+2 skrev Cursitor Doom: > >> >> On Sun, 2 May 2021 08:22:47 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 2:02:38 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, 1 May 2021 22:20:19 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> >On Saturday, May 1, 2021 at 6:48:21 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> >> Is it feasible to PWM a car starter motor or is there just too much > >> >> >> >> reactance in them? > >> >> > > >> >> >> >For starting a car, you don't need any control except on/off. And, you > >> >> >> >don't make the motor good at keeping itself cool. So, what's the > >> >> >> >non-automotive application that benefits from PWM? > >> >> > > >> >> >> Proprietory ideas abound. Why not use your imagination? > >> >> > > >> >> >Classically, for a burst one uses a regular-old-motor and a flywheel. > >> >> >An electric clutch doesn't need PWM, and doesn't dim the lights when > >> >> >engaged. > >> >> I'm familiar with that system but AFAIK it requires the flywheel to be > >> >> running *all* the time. I know they don't consume much energy to keep > >> >> 'em running once they're up there at speed, but nevertheless, they do > >> >> still need to be powered constantly. Plus a flywheel by it's very > >> >> nature has to be *big* and *heavy* so that's a non-starter for my > >> >> purposes, I'm afraid. > >> > > >> >doesn't need t orun all the time, just needs to be "charged" before > >> >you need the torque, https://youtu.be/ROnb5ouBjNc?t=65 > >> Hmmm. Still doesn't do it for me I'm afraid. > >> >how much torque do you need? > >> Nothing stratospheric. 7.5 ft-lb should do the trick. > >at what speed? > See my follow up to Rick C. Don't over think this! I'm just fishing > for general and vague ideas at this stage.It's all about speed. You can get any torque you want if you gear it down enough, but the speed will be slow, potentially glacial. -- Rick C. -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●May 2, 20212021-05-02
On Sun, 2 May 2021 12:27:39 -0700 (PDT), Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:>On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 2:26:58 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> On Sun, 2 May 2021 11:05:56 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >> >s�ndag den 2. maj 2021 kl. 19.30.51 UTC+2 skrev Cursitor Doom: >> >> On Sun, 2 May 2021 09:55:42 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> >> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: >> >> >> >> >s�ndag den 2. maj 2021 kl. 18.30.50 UTC+2 skrev Cursitor Doom: >> >> >> On Sun, 2 May 2021 08:22:47 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 2:02:38 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sat, 1 May 2021 22:20:19 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >On Saturday, May 1, 2021 at 6:48:21 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> Is it feasible to PWM a car starter motor or is there just too much >> >> >> >> >> reactance in them? >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >For starting a car, you don't need any control except on/off. And, you >> >> >> >> >don't make the motor good at keeping itself cool. So, what's the >> >> >> >> >non-automotive application that benefits from PWM? >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Proprietory ideas abound. Why not use your imagination? >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Classically, for a burst one uses a regular-old-motor and a flywheel. >> >> >> >An electric clutch doesn't need PWM, and doesn't dim the lights when >> >> >> >engaged. >> >> >> I'm familiar with that system but AFAIK it requires the flywheel to be >> >> >> running *all* the time. I know they don't consume much energy to keep >> >> >> 'em running once they're up there at speed, but nevertheless, they do >> >> >> still need to be powered constantly. Plus a flywheel by it's very >> >> >> nature has to be *big* and *heavy* so that's a non-starter for my >> >> >> purposes, I'm afraid. >> >> > >> >> >doesn't need t orun all the time, just needs to be "charged" befo >> >> >you need the torque, https://youtu.be/ROnb5ouBjNc?t=65 >> >> Hmmm. Still doesn't do it for me I'm afraid. >> >> >how much torque do you need? >> >> Nothing stratospheric. 7.5 ft-lb should do the trick. >> >at what speed? >> See my follow up to Rick C. Don't over think this! I'm just fishing >> for general and vague ideas at this stage. > >Sorry, forgot to add the link. > >https://gimsonrobotics.co.uk/categories/dc-electric-motors/products/gr-ep-45e-medium-power-45mm-12v-planetary-gearmotor > >In the UK. I'm sure there are others in the US. Much smaller than a starter motor, around $40 if I recall.Thanks, Rick. THat's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for - if I can find a model with the right amount of power. Good link!
Reply by ●May 2, 20212021-05-02
On 02/05>> Sorry, forgot to add the link. >> >> https://gimsonrobotics.co.uk/categories/dc-electric-motors/products/gr-ep-45e-medium-power-45mm-12v-planetary-gearmotor >> >> In the UK. I'm sure there are others in the US. Much smaller than a starter motor, around $40 if I recall. > > Thanks, Rick. THat's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for - if I > can find a model with the right amount of power. Good link! >And here https://www.rapidonline.com/geared-motors -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
