Hi, I have installed and tested a supercap on a V8 engine as an experiment to avoid buying a new lead acid battery: Here is the supercap I used: https://www.ebay.com/itm/16V-83F-Farad-Capacitor-Super-Capacitor-2-7V-500F-With-Protection-Board-Module/223685920878 (16V-83F) I soldered ring terminals to it and bolted it directly to the 12V battery (in parallel with the battery). Before installing the supercap the battery was weak and turning the key would not even turn the starter motor, I am guessing there is some form of undervoltage lockout in the starter motor circuit, as the battery voltage didn't dip that far below 12V, maybe down to 10V. Once the supercap was installed the weak battery+supercap was floating around 12.3VDC, and the supercap had more than enough power to start the V8, after starting a few second later the alternator kicked in and quickly (maybe 1 second) charged the supercap to over 14VDC. I noticed a slight squeal in the alternator belt during the supercap charging once, but not in later testing. The parasitic draw of the supercap on the battery is quite low if I measured correctly I think it is quite a bit below 1mA to hold the supercap at ~12.3V. Since this seems to work and probably won't wreck the alternator, I won't try these improvements, but maybe for an "off the shelf" kit that people could buy instead of replacing their dead battery they would be a good idea: 1. add a 50A+ fuse in series with the supercap 2. add a high power resistor to charge the supercap from the battery/alternator. 3. alternatively to #2, add a high power (12V at 10A+) switcher to charge the supercap from the battery/alternator. This switcher should have low quiescent current and essentially no current draw when the supercap is charged above a certain voltage, to avoid draining the battery. 4. Add a high power (50A+) diode between the supercap and battery/alternator to discharge the supercap when starting the vehicle. cheers, Jamie
vehicle battery supercapacitor kit ideas
Started by ●January 21, 2020
Reply by ●January 21, 20202020-01-21
On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 3:35:05 PM UTC-5, Jamie M wrote:> Hi, > > I have installed and tested a supercap on a V8 engine as an experiment > to avoid buying a new lead acid battery: > > Here is the supercap I used: > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/16V-83F-Farad-Capacitor-Super-Capacitor-2-7V-500F-With-Protection-Board-Module/223685920878 > > (16V-83F) > > I soldered ring terminals to it and bolted it directly to the 12V > battery (in parallel with the battery). > > Before installing the supercap the battery was weak and turning the key > would not even turn the starter motor, I am guessing there is some form > of undervoltage lockout in the starter motor circuit, as the battery > voltage didn't dip that far below 12V, maybe down to 10V. > > Once the supercap was installed the weak battery+supercap was floating > around 12.3VDC, and the supercap had more than enough power to start > the V8, after starting a few second later the alternator kicked in > and quickly (maybe 1 second) charged the supercap to over 14VDC. I > noticed a slight squeal in the alternator belt during the supercap > charging once, but not in later testing. > > The parasitic draw of the supercap on the battery is quite low if I > measured correctly I think it is quite a bit below 1mA to hold the > supercap at ~12.3V. > > Since this seems to work and probably won't wreck the alternator, I > won't try these improvements, but maybe for an "off the shelf" kit > that people could buy instead of replacing their dead battery they > would be a good idea: > > 1. add a 50A+ fuse in series with the supercap > > 2. add a high power resistor to charge the supercap from the > battery/alternator. > > 3. alternatively to #2, add a high power (12V at 10A+) switcher > to charge the supercap from the battery/alternator. This switcher > should have low quiescent current and essentially no current draw > when the supercap is charged above a certain voltage, to avoid draining > the battery. > > 4. Add a high power (50A+) diode between the supercap and > battery/alternator to discharge the supercap when starting the vehicle. > > cheers, > JamieGreat idea. $35 for a cap to bandaid a failing battery, plus whatever else it took to put it together. How much was a new battery?
Reply by ●January 21, 20202020-01-21
On 2020-01-21 1:41 p.m., Whoey Louie wrote:> On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 3:35:05 PM UTC-5, Jamie M wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I have installed and tested a supercap on a V8 engine as an experiment >> to avoid buying a new lead acid battery: >> >> Here is the supercap I used: >> >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/16V-83F-Farad-Capacitor-Super-Capacitor-2-7V-500F-With-Protection-Board-Module/223685920878 >> >> (16V-83F) >> >> I soldered ring terminals to it and bolted it directly to the 12V >> battery (in parallel with the battery). >> >> Before installing the supercap the battery was weak and turning the key >> would not even turn the starter motor, I am guessing there is some form >> of undervoltage lockout in the starter motor circuit, as the battery >> voltage didn't dip that far below 12V, maybe down to 10V. >> >> Once the supercap was installed the weak battery+supercap was floating >> around 12.3VDC, and the supercap had more than enough power to start >> the V8, after starting a few second later the alternator kicked in >> and quickly (maybe 1 second) charged the supercap to over 14VDC. I >> noticed a slight squeal in the alternator belt during the supercap >> charging once, but not in later testing. >> >> The parasitic draw of the supercap on the battery is quite low if I >> measured correctly I think it is quite a bit below 1mA to hold the >> supercap at ~12.3V. >> >> Since this seems to work and probably won't wreck the alternator, I >> won't try these improvements, but maybe for an "off the shelf" kit >> that people could buy instead of replacing their dead battery they >> would be a good idea: >> >> 1. add a 50A+ fuse in series with the supercap >> >> 2. add a high power resistor to charge the supercap from the >> battery/alternator. >> >> 3. alternatively to #2, add a high power (12V at 10A+) switcher >> to charge the supercap from the battery/alternator. This switcher >> should have low quiescent current and essentially no current draw >> when the supercap is charged above a certain voltage, to avoid draining >> the battery. >> >> 4. Add a high power (50A+) diode between the supercap and >> battery/alternator to discharge the supercap when starting the vehicle. >> >> cheers, >> Jamie > > Great idea. $35 for a cap to bandaid a failing battery, plus whatever > else it took to put it together. How much was a new battery? >Hi, I used 2 rolls of electricians tape, some packing foam, heatshrink tubing and a bit of solder. Taped over the foam to make a shock absorbing enclosure. Here is a picture before putting it in the vehicle: https://imgur.com/a/a8DPG5u The supercap has some advantages over a new battery I think. ie the cold weather cranking amps are reduced with a battery but not really with a supercap. Also it is lower maintenance, since a weak battery is fine, no need to recharge it or add electrolyte? :) Also the voltage stability is improved when a supercap is used, except for the initial draw after starting to recharge the supercap. New batteries are maybe 4x the price. cheers, Jamie
Reply by ●January 21, 20202020-01-21
On 21.01.20 23:55, Jamie M wrote:> On 2020-01-21 1:41 p.m., Whoey Louie wrote: >> On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 3:35:05 PM UTC-5, Jamie M wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have installed and tested a supercap on a V8 engine as an experiment >>> to avoid buying a new lead acid battery: >>> >>> Here is the supercap I used: >>> >>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/16V-83F-Farad-Capacitor-Super-Capacitor-2-7V-500F-With-Protection-Board-Module/223685920878 >>> >>> (16V-83F) >>> >>> I soldered ring terminals to it and bolted it directly to the 12V >>> battery (in parallel with the battery). >>> >>> Before installing the supercap the battery was weak and turning the key >>> would not even turn the starter motor, I am guessing there is some form >>> of undervoltage lockout in the starter motor circuit, as the battery >>> voltage didn't dip that far below 12V, maybe down to 10V. >>> >>> Once the supercap was installed the weak battery+supercap was floating >>> around 12.3VDC, and the supercap had more than enough power to start >>> the V8, after starting a few second later the alternator kicked in >>> and quickly (maybe 1 second) charged the supercap to over 14VDC. I >>> noticed a slight squeal in the alternator belt during the supercap >>> charging once, but not in later testing. >>> >>> The parasitic draw of the supercap on the battery is quite low if I >>> measured correctly I think it is quite a bit below 1mA to hold the >>> supercap at ~12.3V. >>> >>> Since this seems to work and probably won't wreck the alternator, I >>> won't try these improvements, but maybe for an "off the shelf" kit >>> that people could buy instead of replacing their dead battery they >>> would be a good idea: >>> >>> 1. add a 50A+ fuse in series with the supercap >>> >>> 2. add a high power resistor to charge the supercap from the >>> battery/alternator. >>> >>> 3. alternatively to #2, add a high power (12V at 10A+) switcher >>> to charge the supercap from the battery/alternator. This switcher >>> should have low quiescent current and essentially no current draw >>> when the supercap is charged above a certain voltage, to avoid draining >>> the battery. >>> >>> 4. Add a high power (50A+) diode between the supercap and >>> battery/alternator to discharge the supercap when starting the vehicle. >>> >>> cheers, >>> Jamie >> >> Great idea. $35 for a cap to bandaid a failing battery, plus whatever >> else it took to put it together. How much was a new battery? >> > > > Hi, > > I used 2 rolls of electricians tape, some packing foam, heatshrink > tubing and a bit of solder. Taped over the foam to make a shock > absorbing enclosure. Here is a picture before putting it in the > vehicle: > > https://imgur.com/a/a8DPG5u >Short link turns up an error.
Reply by ●January 21, 20202020-01-21
On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 5:55:49 PM UTC-5, Jamie M wrote:> On 2020-01-21 1:41 p.m., Whoey Louie wrote: > > On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 3:35:05 PM UTC-5, Jamie M wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> I have installed and tested a supercap on a V8 engine as an experiment > >> to avoid buying a new lead acid battery: > >> > >> Here is the supercap I used: > >> > >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/16V-83F-Farad-Capacitor-Super-Capacitor-2-7V-500F-With-Protection-Board-Module/223685920878 > >> > >> (16V-83F) > >> > >> I soldered ring terminals to it and bolted it directly to the 12V > >> battery (in parallel with the battery). > >> > >> Before installing the supercap the battery was weak and turning the key > >> would not even turn the starter motor, I am guessing there is some form > >> of undervoltage lockout in the starter motor circuit, as the battery > >> voltage didn't dip that far below 12V, maybe down to 10V. > >> > >> Once the supercap was installed the weak battery+supercap was floating > >> around 12.3VDC, and the supercap had more than enough power to start > >> the V8, after starting a few second later the alternator kicked in > >> and quickly (maybe 1 second) charged the supercap to over 14VDC. I > >> noticed a slight squeal in the alternator belt during the supercap > >> charging once, but not in later testing. > >> > >> The parasitic draw of the supercap on the battery is quite low if I > >> measured correctly I think it is quite a bit below 1mA to hold the > >> supercap at ~12.3V. > >> > >> Since this seems to work and probably won't wreck the alternator, I > >> won't try these improvements, but maybe for an "off the shelf" kit > >> that people could buy instead of replacing their dead battery they > >> would be a good idea: > >> > >> 1. add a 50A+ fuse in series with the supercap > >> > >> 2. add a high power resistor to charge the supercap from the > >> battery/alternator. > >> > >> 3. alternatively to #2, add a high power (12V at 10A+) switcher > >> to charge the supercap from the battery/alternator. This switcher > >> should have low quiescent current and essentially no current draw > >> when the supercap is charged above a certain voltage, to avoid draining > >> the battery. > >> > >> 4. Add a high power (50A+) diode between the supercap and > >> battery/alternator to discharge the supercap when starting the vehicle. > >> > >> cheers, > >> Jamie > > > > Great idea. $35 for a cap to bandaid a failing battery, plus whatever > > else it took to put it together. How much was a new battery? > > > > > Hi, > > I used 2 rolls of electricians tape, some packing foam, heatshrink > tubing and a bit of solder. Taped over the foam to make a shock > absorbing enclosure. Here is a picture before putting it in the > vehicle: > > https://imgur.com/a/a8DPG5u > > The supercap has some advantages over a new battery I think. ie the cold > weather cranking amps are reduced with a battery but not really with a > supercap. Also it is lower maintenance, since a weak battery is fine, > no need to recharge it or add electrolyte? :) > > Also the voltage stability is improved when a supercap is > used, except for the initial draw after starting to recharge > the supercap. > > New batteries are maybe 4x the price. > > cheers, > JamieHardly. I paid something like $70 for a battery for a pickup a year ago. If the supercap was a practical solution they would be sold as such or included in cars. https://www.walmart.com/browse/batteries-and-accessories/car-batteries/91083_1074765_1104292_5926828?fitmentParams=partTypeId%3A2476%23baseVehicleId%3A18440%23SubModel%3AALL%23EngineBase%3A1113 The Walmart brand was $50. -- Rick C. - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●January 21, 20202020-01-21
On 2020-01-21 3:02 p.m., Sjouke Burry wrote:> On 21.01.20 23:55, Jamie M wrote: >> On 2020-01-21 1:41 p.m., Whoey Louie wrote: >>> On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 3:35:05 PM UTC-5, Jamie M wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I have installed and tested a supercap on a V8 engine as an experiment >>>> to avoid buying a new lead acid battery: >>>> >>>> Here is the supercap I used: >>>> >>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/16V-83F-Farad-Capacitor-Super-Capacitor-2-7V-500F-With-Protection-Board-Module/223685920878 >>>> >>>> >>>> (16V-83F) >>>> >>>> I soldered ring terminals to it and bolted it directly to the 12V >>>> battery (in parallel with the battery). >>>> >>>> Before installing the supercap the battery was weak and turning the key >>>> would not even turn the starter motor, I am guessing there is some form >>>> of undervoltage lockout in the starter motor circuit, as the battery >>>> voltage didn't dip that far below 12V, maybe down to 10V. >>>> >>>> Once the supercap was installed the weak battery+supercap was floating >>>> around 12.3VDC, and the supercap had more than enough power to start >>>> the V8, after starting a few second later the alternator kicked in >>>> and quickly (maybe 1 second) charged the supercap to over 14VDC. I >>>> noticed a slight squeal in the alternator belt during the supercap >>>> charging once, but not in later testing. >>>> >>>> The parasitic draw of the supercap on the battery is quite low if I >>>> measured correctly I think it is quite a bit below 1mA to hold the >>>> supercap at ~12.3V. >>>> >>>> Since this seems to work and probably won't wreck the alternator, I >>>> won't try these improvements, but maybe for an "off the shelf" kit >>>> that people could buy instead of replacing their dead battery they >>>> would be a good idea: >>>> >>>> 1. add a 50A+ fuse in series with the supercap >>>> >>>> 2. add a high power resistor to charge the supercap from the >>>> battery/alternator. >>>> >>>> 3. alternatively to #2, add a high power (12V at 10A+) switcher >>>> to charge the supercap from the battery/alternator. This switcher >>>> should have low quiescent current and essentially no current draw >>>> when the supercap is charged above a certain voltage, to avoid draining >>>> the battery. >>>> >>>> 4. Add a high power (50A+) diode between the supercap and >>>> battery/alternator to discharge the supercap when starting the vehicle. >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> Jamie >>> >>> Great idea. $35 for a cap to bandaid a failing battery, plus whatever >>> else it took to put it together. How much was a new battery? >>> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> I used 2 rolls of electricians tape, some packing foam, heatshrink >> tubing and a bit of solder. Taped over the foam to make a shock >> absorbing enclosure. Here is a picture before putting it in the >> vehicle: >> >> https://imgur.com/a/a8DPG5u >> > Short link turns up an error. >Hi, Here it is in the truck: https://imgur.com/a/4xWCpSt cheers, Jamie
Reply by ●January 21, 20202020-01-21
In article <r07vhb$uqg$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> wrote:>The supercap has some advantages over a new battery I think. ie the cold >weather cranking amps are reduced with a battery but not really with a >supercap. Also it is lower maintenance, since a weak battery is fine, >no need to recharge it or add electrolyte? :)That's fine, up until the point at which the lack of maintenance results in the battery developing shorted cells. At that point, you end up with a permanent drop in the battery voltage, and thus a loss of cranking power that the supercap can't compensate for.
Reply by ●January 21, 20202020-01-21
On 2020-01-21 3:27 p.m., Dave Platt wrote:> In article <r07vhb$uqg$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> wrote: > >> The supercap has some advantages over a new battery I think. ie the cold >> weather cranking amps are reduced with a battery but not really with a >> supercap. Also it is lower maintenance, since a weak battery is fine, >> no need to recharge it or add electrolyte? :) > > That's fine, up until the point at which the lack of maintenance results > in the battery developing shorted cells. At that point, you end up with > a permanent drop in the battery voltage, and thus a loss of cranking > power that the supercap can't compensate for. >At that time, I think it is good to toss the battery, and charge the supercap from the cigarette lighter socket. If the battery ever gets shorted cells I will post results of that experiment. cheers, Jamie
Reply by ●January 21, 20202020-01-21
On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 4:41:39 PM UTC-5, Whoey Louie wrote:> > Great idea. $35 for a cap to bandaid a failing battery, plus whatever > else it took to put it together. How much was a new battery?I bought a new battery for my pickup truck for $49.95 a few weeks ago at a Rural King store.
Reply by ●January 21, 20202020-01-21
On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 6:28:22 PM UTC-5, Dave Platt wrote:> In article <r07vhb$uqg$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Jamie M <jmorken@shaw.ca> wrote: > > >The supercap has some advantages over a new battery I think. ie the cold > >weather cranking amps are reduced with a battery but not really with a > >supercap. Also it is lower maintenance, since a weak battery is fine, > >no need to recharge it or add electrolyte? :) > > That's fine, up until the point at which the lack of maintenance results > in the battery developing shorted cells. At that point, you end up with > a permanent drop in the battery voltage, and thus a loss of cranking > power that the supercap can't compensate for.Or the battery develops and open cell, and the voltage across the capacitor goes high.
