Forums

PC reliability

Started by legg January 13, 2020
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 19:24:01 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

>If some project would require me to use Windows 10 they either have to >pay for a rented PC or I'd turn it down.
I keep a single stand-alone, cobweb-strewn Windows 10 box just for those odd times when something really needs 'doze, but those times are few and far between. I first seriously delved into Linux 11 years ago and it was very different then. Thankfully things have really improved beyond all measure since then. But you can still tinker about with it at a nuts and bolts level if you really want to - and plenty of nerds do. Slackware is a popular distro that's ideal for the more hands-on propeller-head type Linux user. Personally I prefer something a bit more civilised that just works out of the box, which means a Debian fork of some sort. Not Debian, but a fork of it. But there are other excellent distros these days. I now consult the Linux hardware compatibility list before buying a new computer, so I know there won't be hardware/driver issues in installing Linux on it. That's a very useful tip to remember in future for anyone considering making the switch. You'll save yourself a ton of time and trouble! -- No deal? No problem! :-D
Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> wrote in
news:7n1s1ftlqpvcqje7vgm5p4at4rm4fq2vrd@4ax.com: 

> On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 19:24:01 -0800, Joerg > <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote: > >>If some project would require me to use Windows 10 they either >>have to pay for a rented PC or I'd turn it down. > > I keep a single stand-alone, cobweb-strewn Windows 10 box just for > those odd times when something really needs 'doze, but those times > are few and far between. I first seriously delved into Linux 11 > years ago and it was very different then. Thankfully things have > really improved beyond all measure since then. But you can still > tinker about with it at a nuts and bolts level if you really want > to - and plenty of nerds do. Slackware is a popular distro that's > ideal for the more hands-on propeller-head type Linux user. > Personally I prefer something a bit more civilised that just works > out of the box, which means a Debian fork of some sort. Not > Debian, but a fork of it. But there are other excellent distros > these days. I now consult the Linux hardware compatibility list > before buying a new computer, so I know there won't be > hardware/driver issues in installing Linux on it. That's a very > useful tip to remember in future for anyone considering making the > switch. You'll save yourself a ton of time and trouble! >
"Linux 11"? No such thing. You mean the 11th releas of some distro you like? Modern Linux distros and desktops are pretty darn robust. I used Ubuntu Studio. I even use the daily releases and never see a problem. <http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/>
On 2020-01-14 10:29, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 19:24:01 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> If some project would require me to use Windows 10 they either have to >> pay for a rented PC or I'd turn it down. > > I keep a single stand-alone, cobweb-strewn Windows 10 box just for > those odd times when something really needs 'doze, but those times are > few and far between. ...
For me a Windwos 10 box would require a stack of air sick bags next to it :-)
> ... I first seriously delved into Linux 11 years ago > and it was very different then. Thankfully things have really improved > beyond all measure since then.
They sure have. My last encounter was almost as long ago and I didn't like Linux back then. Not it's ok. Not perfect but ok.
> ... But you can still tinker about with it > at a nuts and bolts level if you really want to - and plenty of nerds > do. Slackware is a popular distro that's ideal for the more hands-on > propeller-head type Linux user. Personally I prefer something a bit > more civilised that just works out of the box, which means a Debian > fork of some sort. Not Debian, but a fork of it. But there are other > excellent distros these days.
That's my goal as well, hence MX Linux. It still has a 32-bit path for older HW. For the tinker stuff I am using ArchLinux, no GUI, just the bare metal.
> I now consult the Linux hardware compatibility list before buying a > new computer, so I know there won't be hardware/driver issues in > installing Linux on it. That's a very useful tip to remember in future > for anyone considering making the switch. You'll save yourself a ton > of time and trouble! >
However, much of the stuff I've got here is legacy HW in very good condition so I don't want to throw it out. Other stuff such as the Signalhound spectrum analyzer plain does not work with Linux, you cannot get such devices for Linux, there just isn't any alternative. That's where (hopefully ...) a VM will suffice since supposedly those can now support OpenGL2 and higher. I'd really like to not have to dual-boot any longer. While it works fine with grub it costs several minutes every time. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in
news:h86puaFc6oiU1@mid.individual.net: 

> I'd really like to not have to dual-boot any > longer. While it works fine with grub it costs several minutes > every time.
Oh my God and every second of your time is so precious! Overkill. Especially if it is a laptop. They are mode to be shut off between sessions, if you have any sense about dust and heat sinks. Like watching water boil. Dude look somewhere else in the room. Sheesh. And yet you spend so much of it in Usenet.
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 13:25:33 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

>For me a Windwos 10 box would require a stack of air sick bags next to >it :-)
I do actually keep a pile of sick bags next to mine!
>That's my goal as well, hence MX Linux. It still has a 32-bit path for >older HW. For the tinker stuff I am using ArchLinux, no GUI, just the >bare metal.
That's good; very good. In fact is was the CLI that first turned me on to Linux. I'd been watching with dismay as the Windows equivalent was allowed to whither on the vine and become less and less useable with every new release. I'd also got really sick of Windows telling me to fuck off whenever I went anywhere near its OS files. With Linux, as you know, there are no no-go zones and the CLI is extremely powerful. I can trash the OS if I'm not careful, but that's never happened. I find the sudo command is all the protection I personally need from such eventualities. I will NEVER go back to Windows for anything other than that application you mentioned and similar stuff like that where it's unavoidable.
>However, much of the stuff I've got here is legacy HW in very good >condition so I don't want to throw it out. Other stuff such as the >Signalhound spectrum analyzer plain does not work with Linux, you cannot >get such devices for Linux, there just isn't any alternative. That's >where (hopefully ...) a VM will suffice since supposedly those can now >support OpenGL2 and higher. I'd really like to not have to dual-boot any >longer. While it works fine with grub it costs several minutes every time.
Yeah, VMs are great if your HW can handle the overhead. I was tempted to have a play with it once when it was first introduced to me by a German computer scientist, but it would have stretched my technical abilities a bit too much to make it worth the effort. YMMV. I had a play with Solaris and BSD some time ago; they're both very good, too. VERY good! -- No deal? No problem! :-D
On 1/13/2020 1:25 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 11:58:22 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote: > >> He needs 10 because Turbotax will not work on windows 7 in 2020. >> Mikek > > Nope: > "Windows 7 Support is Ending" > <https://www.intuit.com/support/windows-7-end-of-life/> > TurboTax for tax year 2019 and QuickBooks 2020 > will install on Windows 7 (Service Pack 1 or later) > PCs. > > So it is written, so it must be. >
Hmm, I'll blame that on my breakfast buddy, that was the topic on Monday morning. He was talking about upgrading to 10, because he uses Turbotax. His solution is a dual boot using two separate Hard Drives. He wants 7 because he has photo printer that only has 7 drivers, and ham equipment that will only run on 7. I've been trying to get him to build a new computer, he built one in 2011, and he gave me his parts list and I built exactly the same thing. I think we are on borrowed time, but so far so good. I did need to oil two Fans this week, that quieted them right down. Mikek
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 11:21:18 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 08:20:18 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote: > >>Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as >>regularly as they used to? > >Correct. PC's are no longer crashing in regular equally space >intervals. Instead, a random number generator has been added to the >crash(delay,random_seed), to produce random crashes instead. In some >operating systems, these random crashes are part of the update >process. The only thing regular about today's PC crashes is that they >occur on the 2nd Tues of the month on Windoze machines. > >>Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift >>occurred roughly around the time IDE HDDs were replaced >>by SATA. >> >>With three machines, I used to expect to have a clunk HDD >>at least once a year, if not just cloned to a larger drive. >> >>Haven't had a HDD fail since 2011. > >SATA was introduced in about 2000. That would be 11 years of SATA >while your hard disk drives were failing. I don't think it's SATA, >especially since HDD density and technology has significantly improved >in the last 20 years.
Didn't have a machine with SATA till 2010. I might assign blame to the IDE HDD trays that were used, but the trays were adopted after steady failures. Used to have to keep three drives on rotation for my main-use machine for back-up and recovery of OS. Never re-installed an OS, but many 'repair' instances. I suppose an OS issue could be mistaken for a HDD failure.
> >The real question is what changed in 2011. My guess(tm) is that the >power and noise levels of most PC's and HDD's has decreased to the >point where PC's are no longer spinning down the drives to save power >and comply with Energy Star requirements. I've had machines with old >drives running 24x7 that last far longer than those that get powered >on and off. There's also the situation where the replacement cycle, >HDD warranty time, and operating system support life, have converged >to the same span (about 5 to 7 years). That means that people are >replacing machines before they need to replace the HDD.
I understood there was an error correction issue with parallel bus. RL ?
On 2020/01/13 11:21 a.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 08:20:18 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote: > >> Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as >> regularly as they used to? > > Correct. PC's are no longer crashing in regular equally space > intervals. Instead, a random number generator has been added to the > crash(delay,random_seed), to produce random crashes instead. In some > operating systems, these random crashes are part of the update > process. The only thing regular about today's PC crashes is that they > occur on the 2nd Tues of the month on Windoze machines. >
I hear that cars made in 1950 were more reliable than cars made in 1910 too. (as in 2020 computers vs 1980 computers - 40 years of evolution) Intelligent design? (ducking) John ;-#)#
On Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 12:42:19 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:
> On 2020/01/13 11:21 a.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote: > > On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 08:20:18 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote: > > > >> Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as > >> regularly as they used to? > > > > Correct. PC's are no longer crashing in regular equally space > > intervals. Instead, a random number generator has been added to the > > crash(delay,random_seed), to produce random crashes instead. In some > > operating systems, these random crashes are part of the update > > process. The only thing regular about today's PC crashes is that they > > occur on the 2nd Tues of the month on Windoze machines. > > > > I hear that cars made in 1950 were more reliable than cars made in 1910 > too. (as in 2020 computers vs 1980 computers - 40 years of evolution) > > Intelligent design? (ducking) > > John ;-#)#
I'm not sure that is completely correct. How many cars in 1950 would crash without hitting something? They do now!!! -- Rick C. -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 08:20:18 -0500, legg wrote:

> Is it just an impression, or are PC's not crashing as regularly as they > used to? > > Looking at the machines here, it seems that this shift occurred roughly > around the time IDE HDDs were replaced by SATA.
Can't really say about hard drives, all my important systems have gone over to SSDs. But, if you stay away from the super high capacity bleeding-edge ones, then even the magnetic drives are pretty reliable, now. As for CPU reliability, I have had a few failures, but my most important systems have all been Dell Optiplex (commercial vs. their home systems). I bought one used on eBay and ran it 24/7 for 12 years, then retired it to my mother in law, and it is STILL going! I run all Linux systems, and have had several stay up over a year. My record was 460 days, then I had to shut it down to diagnose a dead page scanner. These are daily use web surfing, electronic design and accounting, use it for everything computers. My web/email/DNS/file server computer is directly on the net, and usually stays up for 6 months or more before there's a power failure or some other reason to shut it down, even though hackers are constantly trying to break in. I'm astonished at the reliability of these systems! Jon