https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot, amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands. https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants There's a PV Project Feed-In Tariff document, which has prices, but it may not show the effective cost of the new solar electricity. -- Thanks, - Win
OT: 1.8GW solar park nears completion
Started by ●September 18, 2019
Reply by ●September 18, 20192019-09-18
On 18 Sep 2019 06:18:29 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com> wrote:>https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion > > Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the > Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot, > amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're > also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle > plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands. > >https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plantsThe almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help them a lot. The 1.8 GW of intermittent solar power, not so much.> > There's a PV Project Feed-In Tariff document, > which has prices, but it may not show the > effective cost of the new solar electricity.Feed-in "tariffs" are paying suppliers for the privilige of paying them.
Reply by ●September 18, 20192019-09-18
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...> > On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote: > >>https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion >> >> Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the >> Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot, >> amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're >> also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle >> plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands. >> >>https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants > > The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help > them a lot. The 1.8 GW of intermittent solar power, > not so much.Actually, 14.4GW of gas-fired power. While mid-day solar comes at a good time and does help to reduce peak-power production needs, this story makes clear just how much bigger grid-scale solar farms need to be, to have a serious impact. A second calculation I did was, looking at Egypt's per capita electrical use, about 1.623 MWh/year. Oops, my wife and I consume about 10.5 MWh/yr, or 6.5 times more. OK, 3.23 x more per capita.** Our roof makes 11 MWh/yr, but it's sobering thought. ** Doesn't count consumption at work, or our share of other shared consumptions. worlddata.info says U.S. per capita = 11.93 MWh/yr, or 7.35 x higher. Hey, we'd need to more than double our roof solar. -- Thanks, - Win
Reply by ●September 18, 20192019-09-18
On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:12:22 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote... > > > > On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote: > > > >>https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion > >> > >> Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the > >> Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot, > >> amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're > >> also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle > >> plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands. > >> > >>https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants > > > > The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help > > them a lot.If it says it's for peak, that implies that it's not always on. The 1.8 GW of intermittent solar power,> > not so much. > > Actually, 14.4GW of gas-fired power. While mid-day > solar comes at a good time and does help to reduce > peak-power production needs, this story makes clear > just how much bigger grid-scale solar farms need > to be, to have a serious impact.Geez, 5% of the country's capacity from one new solar installation isn't a serious impact? They didn't build all the existing capacity in just a year or two, did they? If this covers 5%, build 4 more and you have 25%. Would that be serious or something to piss all over too?
Reply by ●September 18, 20192019-09-18
On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:12:22 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote... > > > > On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote: > > > >>https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion > >> > >> Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the > >> Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot, > >> amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're > >> also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle > >> plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands. > >> > >>https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants > > > > The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help > > them a lot. The 1.8 GW of intermittent solar power, > > not so much. > > Actually, 14.4GW of gas-fired power. While mid-day > solar comes at a good time and does help to reduce > peak-power production needs, this story makes clear > just how much bigger grid-scale solar farms need > to be, to have a serious impact. > > A second calculation I did was, looking at Egypt's > per capita electrical use, about 1.623 MWh/year. > Oops, my wife and I consume about 10.5 MWh/yr, or > 6.5 times more. OK, 3.23 x more per capita.** Our > roof makes 11 MWh/yr, but it's sobering thought. > > ** Doesn't count consumption at work, or our share > of other shared consumptions. worlddata.info says > U.S. per capita = 11.93 MWh/yr, or 7.35 x higher. > Hey, we'd need to more than double our roof solar.I pay a few hundred dollars a year 'extra' on our electric bill to 'get' all our electric from the nearby wind mills. (I also burn ~1,000 gallons/year of oil, driving cars and heating the house.) George H.> > > -- > Thanks, > - Win
Reply by ●September 18, 20192019-09-18
On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 9:18:46 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:> https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion > > Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the > Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot, > amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're > also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle > plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands. > > https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants > > There's a PV Project Feed-In Tariff document, > which has prices, but it may not show the > effective cost of the new solar electricity. > > > -- > Thanks, > - WinWill be interesting to see how those flimsy Amp connectors hold up in that environment. They already have one instance of a connector failure due to heat.
Reply by ●September 18, 20192019-09-18
On 18 Sep 2019 08:12:08 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com> wrote:>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote... >> >> On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote: >> >>>https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion >>> >>> Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the >>> Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot, >>> amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're >>> also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle >>> plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands. >>> >>>https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants >> >> The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help >> them a lot. The 1.8 GW of intermittent solar power, >> not so much. > > Actually, 14.4GW of gas-fired power. While mid-day > solar comes at a good time and does help to reduce > peak-power production needs, this story makes clear > just how much bigger grid-scale solar farms need > to be, to have a serious impact. > > A second calculation I did was, looking at Egypt's > per capita electrical use, about 1.623 MWh/year. > Oops, my wife and I consume about 10.5 MWh/yr, or > 6.5 times more. OK, 3.23 x more per capita.** Our > roof makes 11 MWh/yr, but it's sobering thought. > > ** Doesn't count consumption at work, or our share > of other shared consumptions. worlddata.info says > U.S. per capita = 11.93 MWh/yr, or 7.35 x higher. > Hey, we'd need to more than double our roof solar.And add storage.
Reply by ●September 18, 20192019-09-18
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:25:03 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie <trader4@optonline.net> wrote:>On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:12:22 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote: >> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote... >> > >> > On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote: >> > >> >>https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion >> >> >> >> Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the >> >> Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot, >> >> amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're >> >> also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle >> >> plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands. >> >> >> >>https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants >> > >> > The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help >> > them a lot. > >If it says it's for peak, that implies that it's not always on.People need electricity at night too.
Reply by ●September 18, 20192019-09-18
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:25:27 -0700 (PDT), George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:>On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:12:22 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote: >> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote... >> > >> > On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote: >> > >> >>https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion >> >> >> >> Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the >> >> Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot, >> >> amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're >> >> also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle >> >> plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands. >> >> >> >>https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants >> > >> > The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help >> > them a lot. The 1.8 GW of intermittent solar power, >> > not so much. >> >> Actually, 14.4GW of gas-fired power. While mid-day >> solar comes at a good time and does help to reduce >> peak-power production needs, this story makes clear >> just how much bigger grid-scale solar farms need >> to be, to have a serious impact. >> >> A second calculation I did was, looking at Egypt's >> per capita electrical use, about 1.623 MWh/year. >> Oops, my wife and I consume about 10.5 MWh/yr, or >> 6.5 times more. OK, 3.23 x more per capita.** Our >> roof makes 11 MWh/yr, but it's sobering thought. >> >> ** Doesn't count consumption at work, or our share >> of other shared consumptions. worlddata.info says >> U.S. per capita = 11.93 MWh/yr, or 7.35 x higher. >> Hey, we'd need to more than double our roof solar. >I pay a few hundred dollars a year 'extra' on our electric bill >to 'get' all our electric from the nearby wind mills. >(I also burn ~1,000 gallons/year of oil, driving cars and heating the house.)Would you sign up to only get all your electricity from windmills?
Reply by ●September 18, 20192019-09-18
On 18 Sep 2019 06:18:29 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com> wrote:>https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion > > Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the > Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,That is the peak power. Fortunately Egypt has a nice amount of hydrolectrics that can be used as energy 'storage'. The maximum power output from the Aswan dam is 2.2 GW, so they could shut down the hydro generators during the day and save water for evening, night and morning consumption. Also remember that day consumption is always larger than night consumption.> amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're > also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle > plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.A fixed PV array has a capacity factor about 30 %, so the installed power would have to be about 40 GW peak to produce the same energy as the three combi sites.> >https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plantsSince these are combi units that would suggest that they are used several thousand hours each year. Emergency gas turbines are cheap low efficiency units, which are used a few hundred hours a tear. Each of the three sites have twelve combi units, each consisting of two gas turbines, a boiler and a single steam turbine. At least starting the steam turbine takes some time, but apparently the gas turbines can run independently. Since there are 12 combi units in each site, it is possible to adjust the output power to closely match the demand.> There's a PV Project Feed-In Tariff document, > which has prices, but it may not show the > effective cost of the new solar electricity.The building cost was surprisingly expensive, more than $2/W of peak power. Feed-in tariffs suspicious if set by the state in advance. In India private companies makes bids for which tariffs they are willing to build and maintain a PV plant for decades and get the income. The state only selects the lowest bid and builds some infrastructure such as roads and HV lines.
