Design Me A Transformer, I Will Pay

On 9/7/2019 12:52 PM, John S wrote:
> On 9/6/2019 1:33 PM, jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:
>> I have tried to figure out how to do this but my education lacks. What 
>> do people like me do when they need something done they can't do ? Pay 
>> someone.
>>
>> I need an audio transformer, actually a center tapped choke. I can't 
>> seem to source it so custom mad, oh well. You get what you pay for.
>>
>> This has to be high quality for audio, not saturate or any of that and 
>> I need a low DCR.
>>
>> This is the configuration;
>>
>> Version 4
>> SHEET 1 880 680
>> WIRE 256 48 64 48
>> WIRE 368 48 256 48
>> WIRE 256 128 160 128
>> WIRE -32 176 -32 16
>> WIRE 64 176 64 144
>> WIRE 64 176 -32 176
>> WIRE 64 208 64 176
>> WIRE 368 208 256 208
>> WIRE 160 272 160 128
>> WIRE 256 304 256 208
>> WIRE 256 304 64 304
>> FLAG 160 272 0
>> SYMBOL ind 240 32 R0
>> SYMATTR InstName L1
>> SYMBOL ind 240 112 R0
>> SYMATTR InstName L2
>> SYMBOL pnp 0 48 R0
>> SYMATTR InstName Q1
>> SYMBOL pnp 0 304 M180
>> SYMATTR InstName Q2
>>
>> The load consider to be four ohms from end to end. I need to push +30 
>> volts into one end and have -30 volts come out the other end, able to 
>> feed low impedance. I need it to do that efficiently at least from 
>> 20-20,000.
>>
>> How much ? Or do you want in on the deal ? They will go for like two 
>> grand so just 5% is a Cnote. If you're any kind of an audiophile I 
>> could just give you one of these amps. There really is nothing like 
>> them on the market.
>>
>> If you can't get my email with your client software it is JURB6006 at 
>> gmail, and of course dot com. You can reply here, just how much do you 
>> want to do this ? I need wire size, number of turns and the core 
>> specifics. I know the basics about transformers but this is beyond me. 
>> Frequency response flat and all that, I have no clue. An RF 
>> transformer I could tune with caps, a power transformer, actually I 
>> tried using one once and the performance was not good.
>>
>> I used to do this scrapping tube amps that had 4 and 16 ohm outputs 
>> with good results. The 4 is the center tap and the 0 and 16 are the 
>> ends. thing is if I go too high in power I am inducing a hell of alot 
>> of voltage into the "primary" which isn't really anymore. But it can 
>> arc and break down insulation. I would consider them but for that, I 
>> would need them in the higher wattage range. Without the "primary" it 
>> should save money and weight.
>>
>> I have it mostly figured out except this. Well and one thing i want to 
>> do to the tone controls, at the highest turnover frequency the treble 
>> will have +/- 20dB range, if the turnover is lowered by the control to 
>> boost more of the spectrum I want to decrease the range so people 
>> don't blow their tweeters. I might make it switchable - "treble 
>> protection". Other than that over half the math is done and I am all 
>> the way back to the tone board, it is designed but I want a 
>> differential drive to the output circuit.
>>
>> Interested in this ? I am not hard to find.
>>
> 
> If I understand your configuration correctly, you have an 
> autotransformer driven in a class B connection at the ends. The 
> transformer will need to have the thinnest laminations you can get in 
> order to handle the 20kHz. You will need to have enough laminations 
> (core) to not saturate at 20Hz. But the designer should know that. You 
> will need a wire size to handle the current (about 10ARMS) without 
> generating excessive heat and/or without excessive resistance.
> 
> I suggest the following specifications for your transformer:
> 
> Autotransformer (bifilar winding)
> 20Hz - 20kHz
> Current - 10Arms
> Voltage rating is not a problem. Even the wire enamel can handle it.
> Suggested lamination source: Thomas & Skinner (No connection with them).
> 
> I designed transformers, but have no experience with audio.

By the way, this is my understanding of your topology:

Version 4
SHEET 1 880 680
WIRE 0 48 -208 48
WIRE 256 48 64 48
WIRE 368 48 256 48
WIRE 368 80 368 48
WIRE 256 128 160 128
WIRE -208 144 -208 128
WIRE 0 208 -208 208
WIRE 256 208 64 208
WIRE 368 208 368 160
WIRE 368 208 256 208
WIRE 160 272 160 128
WIRE -208 304 -208 288
FLAG 160 272 0
FLAG -208 144 0
FLAG -208 304 0
SYMBOL ind2 240 32 R0
SYMATTR InstName L1
SYMATTR Value 2
SYMATTR Type ind
SYMBOL ind2 240 112 R0
SYMATTR InstName L2
SYMATTR Value 2
SYMATTR Type ind
SYMBOL res 352 64 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 4
SYMBOL diode 64 32 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value RFUH30TS6D
SYMBOL diode 64 192 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName D2
SYMATTR Value RFUH60TS6D
SYMBOL voltage -208 32 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value SINE(0 32 20)
SYMBOL voltage -208 304 R180
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName V2
SYMATTR Value SINE(0 32 20)
TEXT 200 -16 Left 2 !K1 L1 L2 1
TEXT -434 328 Left 2 !.tran 0 1000m 0

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...
>
>On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 19:49:42 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
><pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Winfield Hill while way out of his depth wrote:
>>
>>>  You don't need a transformer, you need power amplifiers
>>>  capable of 60 Vp-p and 15A.  That's 900 watts.  Or maybe
>>>  two 450-watt amps.  There are class-D designs that can
>>>  handle that.  In the event you have slightly miscalculated,
>>>  there are Chinese sellers of souped-up class-D chip eval
>>>  designs that can handle those power levels, selling for
>>>  quite low prices on eBay.  I have purchased and received
>>>  a selection, and they're not so bad.  Transformers suck.  
>>
>>** Hummmm - use a class D chip amp or two plus no doubt a
>> high falutin' SMPS *instead* of a simple iron core transformer. 
>>
>> That IS a damn novel idea. 
>
> TPA3255 looks great. It's good for 600w mono or 300 stereo, for
> under $10. I've just got to figure out an elegant way to heat sink it.

 If you check on eBay, you'll find lots of finished board
 choices, with heatsinks mounted, etc., starting at $36,
 free shipping.  Some include toroid AC-line transformers,
 etc., and a case.

> I can get a MeanWell 600 watt 48V power supply for
> something crazy like $80.

 But the TPA3255 is less interesting to me, because it's
 single-supply, with ac-coupled input and BTL output.  As
 opposed to split-supply types with DC coupling possible.


-- 
 Thanks,
    - Win

On 7 Sep 2019 12:20:44 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...
>>
>>On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 19:49:42 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
>><pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Winfield Hill while way out of his depth wrote:
>>>
>>>>  You don't need a transformer, you need power amplifiers
>>>>  capable of 60 Vp-p and 15A.  That's 900 watts.  Or maybe
>>>>  two 450-watt amps.  There are class-D designs that can
>>>>  handle that.  In the event you have slightly miscalculated,
>>>>  there are Chinese sellers of souped-up class-D chip eval
>>>>  designs that can handle those power levels, selling for
>>>>  quite low prices on eBay.  I have purchased and received
>>>>  a selection, and they're not so bad.  Transformers suck.  
>>>
>>>** Hummmm - use a class D chip amp or two plus no doubt a
>>> high falutin' SMPS *instead* of a simple iron core transformer. 
>>>
>>> That IS a damn novel idea. 
>>
>> TPA3255 looks great. It's good for 600w mono or 300 stereo, for
>> under $10. I've just got to figure out an elegant way to heat sink it.
>
> If you check on eBay, you'll find lots of finished board
> choices, with heatsinks mounted, etc., starting at $36,
> free shipping.  Some include toroid AC-line transformers,
> etc., and a case.
>
>> I can get a MeanWell 600 watt 48V power supply for
>> something crazy like $80.
>
> But the TPA3255 is less interesting to me, because it's
> single-supply, with ac-coupled input and BTL output.  As
> opposed to split-supply types with DC coupling possible.

I'll be driving a huge custom toroidal output transformer, so
single-supply is fine. One concern is the output DC offset, which
could freak out the transformer: The Devil's Staircase thing. I guess
I'll add about 40,000 uF of electrolytics in the transformer primary,
just to be safe.

We do have the TI eval board and have been abusing the chip. Haven't
blown it up yet. I wouldn't want to base an aerospace test box on some
no-name Chinese amp board. And I want to include some sensing and
supervision stuff.

Some seem to be missing the point here. 

>The product doesn't cost that much at all. Here is one as an >example, I've never used them and don't know anything abut them- >they're just an example:
>https://www.custommag.com/custom-transformer-design

Thanks, I'll check them out. But I have already been to a few companies and they don't seem to be interested. 

>Try  todd <at> newava.com. I recently sent him a spec for a >special toroidal power transformer and he came back with a nice >proposal and decent pricing. He's done some good stuff for me >before. 

I'll check them out. 

>You don't need a transformer, you need power amplifiers
> capable of...

You are not getting it, this is a brand new audiophile design. If I just wanted power I could buy from B&O, those Icepower modules. If I wanted that i would not be here. 

>** Hummmm - use a class D chip amp or two plus no doubt a high >falutin' SMPS *instead* of a simple iron core transformer.
>
> That IS a damn novel idea.

B&O thought so and that is where the Icepower amps come from. Hundred watts no problem, no heat sinks. Well sure the copper on the board but the thing is smaller than an index card.-... that is about 10cm. by 15cm. The amps I have seen them in have little air flow and never a fan. They just don't get hot because they just don't waste energy. 

> Dunno what the O.P. is doing, but I always
> like to think in terms of the max DC power.
> Certainly when using a class-D MOSFET stage,
> you're always considering the Vmax and Imax.
> Pmax Pavg Pwhatever, posh, who cares? 

I am building a solid state audiophile amp that most closely emulates the sound of tubes, but much better quality. Class D is out of the picture. I know what class D is and what it can do but it does not give me the sound I want. These things are going to go for two grand, and will be an all original design by me. I got the rest of it pretty much figured out but I lack the experise in transformers. 

>Autotransformer (bifilar winding)
>20Hz - 20kHz
>Current - 10Arms
>Voltage rating is not a problem. Even the wire enamel can >handle it.
>Suggested lamination source: Thomas & Skinner (No connection >with them).
>
>I designed transformers, but have no experience with audio. 

By bifilar do you mean the whole thing or insulated so I can wire it the right way ? I need it to be equally efficient going both ways, there really is no primary and secondary. 

I have used output transformers for tube amps that had 0-4 and 16 taps on the secondary, but that was inducing much voltage on the "primary" which was not a primary anymore. When i get to the power I want those will not work, the primary will short out by arcing. 

> If you check on eBay, you'll find lots of finished board
> choices, with heatsinks mounted, etc., starting at $36,
> free shipping.  Some include toroid AC-line transformers,
> etc., and a case. 

I am BUILDING this. 

Anyway, thanks for the responses. I got a couple more leads to try to get these. 

The whole design is brand new. the outputs, drivers, predrivers, prepredrivers all run on a resistive stack. The feedback is distributed, not global like most amps. 

I could probably work this up on LTSpice as long as you can comprehend that L1 and L2 are one coil. It won't make any kind of simulation work right but it could illustrate the concept. 

But do I want to reveal it ? This is totally new, I have seen more topologies for audio amps than I care to remember. There is no off the shelf solution for what I want. There is no chip, no board, no nothing. In fact I might have trouble even finding suitable output transistor because they will be PNP. Darlingtons would be great, but i want the best of the best. Two grand each for these things, they have to be top notch. 

Thanks for wasting your time on me. I appreciate it. I will check out the links. 

Still, someone who knows what they're doing tell me how many turn of what gauge wire on a core of what size and composition, I would pay.

Winfield Hill wrote:
>
> Phil Allison wrote...
> >
> >** Win is off with the fairies, again.
> >
> >  60Vp-p = 21.2V rms. 
> >  With a 4 ohm load that is 112 watts. 
> 
>  Dunno what the O.P. is doing,
>

** Reading his posts might be a help ... 

  Not taking things so literally would be another. 


>  but I always
>  like to think in terms of the max DC power.

** While ignoring all other information ?
     
 You are just adding to you original absurdity. 
  

>  Certainly when using a class-D MOSFET stage,
>  you're always considering the Vmax and Imax.
>  Pmax Pavg Pwhatever, posh, who cares?
> 
> 
 ** Well clearly you don't. 

 Like I said already - way out of your depth and drowning.

 Gurgle, gurgle gurgle....  



......  Phil 

John Smug, imitating a troll wrote:
--------------------------------
>
>
>>jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > This has to be high quality for audio, not saturate or any of that 
> > and I need a low DCR.
> > 
>
> 
> If I understand your configuration correctly, you have an 
> autotransformer driven in a class B connection at the ends. The 
> transformer will need to have the thinnest laminations you can get in 
> order to handle the 20kHz. 
>

** Utter nonsense. 

 It's a wide band audio power tranny, not a SMPS. 



> You will need to have enough laminations 
> (core) to not saturate at 20Hz.

** Right, full power at 20Hz happens all the time in audio ... 

   Strewth. 


> I suggest the following specifications for your transformer:
> 
> Autotransformer (bifilar winding)
> 20Hz - 20kHz
> Current - 10Arms
> Voltage rating is not a problem. Even the wire enamel can handle it.
> Suggested lamination source: Thomas & Skinner (No connection with them).
> 
> I designed transformers, but have no experience with audio.
>

** If you did, you might know that a standard, tape wound toriodal core auto-tranny would meet the OP's spec with complete ease.

But you don't, so you didn't.


.... Phil 
  

Some fuckwit retard posnig as jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
=======================================================

> 
> >You don't need a transformer, you need power amplifiers
> > capable of...
> 
> You are not getting it, this is a brand new audiophile design. If I just wanted power I could buy from B&O, those Icepower modules. If I wanted that i would not be here. 
> 

** Keep away from them - expensive, designed to fail and non repairable. 

  Go one on my bench right now. 


> >** Hummmm - use a class D chip amp or two plus no doubt a high >falutin' SMPS *instead* of a simple iron core transformer.
> >
> > That IS a damn novel idea.
> 
> B&O thought so and that is where the Icepower amps come from. 
>
 
 ** Absurd fucking crap. 

 B&O never did any such thing. 




> 
> I am building a solid state audiophile amp that most closely emulates the sound of tubes, but much better quality. Class D is out of the picture. I know what class D is and what it can do but it does not give me the sound I want. These things are going to go for two grand, and will be an all original design by me. I got the rest of it pretty much figured out but I lack the experise in transformers. 
> 

** This monumental fool lacks the basic common sense to realise how idiotic he is. 

 Another demented troll, wasting all of our times here. 

 Yawnnnnnn  ....  



.....  Phil 

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 04:15:35 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

>Winfield Hill wrote:
>>
>> Phil Allison wrote...
>> >
>> >** Win is off with the fairies, again.
>> >
>> >  60Vp-p = 21.2V rms. 
>> >  With a 4 ohm load that is 112 watts. 
>> 
>>  Dunno what the O.P. is doing,
>>
>
>** Reading his posts might be a help ... 
>
>  Not taking things so literally would be another. 
>
>
>>  but I always
>>  like to think in terms of the max DC power.
>
>** While ignoring all other information ?
>     
> You are just adding to you original absurdity. 
>  
>
>>  Certainly when using a class-D MOSFET stage,
>>  you're always considering the Vmax and Imax.
>>  Pmax Pavg Pwhatever, posh, who cares?
>> 
>> 
> ** Well clearly you don't. 
>
> Like I said already - way out of your depth and drowning.
>
> Gurgle, gurgle gurgle....  
>

Yeah, Win is an amateur at electronics, compared to someone with your
decades of experience fixing broken guitar pedals.

You should write a book.

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 04:24:17 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

>John Smug, imitating a troll wrote:
>--------------------------------
>>
>>
>>>jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > This has to be high quality for audio, not saturate or any of that 
>> > and I need a low DCR.
>> > 
>>
>> 
>> If I understand your configuration correctly, you have an 
>> autotransformer driven in a class B connection at the ends. The 
>> transformer will need to have the thinnest laminations you can get in 
>> order to handle the 20kHz. 
>>
>
>** Utter nonsense. 
>
> It's a wide band audio power tranny, not a SMPS. 
>
>
>
>> You will need to have enough laminations 
>> (core) to not saturate at 20Hz.
>
>** Right, full power at 20Hz happens all the time in audio ... 
>
>   Strewth. 
>
>
>> I suggest the following specifications for your transformer:
>> 
>> Autotransformer (bifilar winding)
>> 20Hz - 20kHz
>> Current - 10Arms
>> Voltage rating is not a problem. Even the wire enamel can handle it.
>> Suggested lamination source: Thomas & Skinner (No connection with them).
>> 
>> I designed transformers, but have no experience with audio.
>>
>
>** If you did, you might know that a standard, tape wound toriodal core auto-tranny would meet the OP's spec with complete ease.
>

It might weigh 100 pounds.

On 9/8/2019 9:53 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 04:24:17 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
> <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> John Smug, imitating a troll wrote:
>> --------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>> jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> This has to be high quality for audio, not saturate or any of that
>>>> and I need a low DCR.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If I understand your configuration correctly, you have an
>>> autotransformer driven in a class B connection at the ends. The
>>> transformer will need to have the thinnest laminations you can get in
>>> order to handle the 20kHz.
>>>
>>
>> ** Utter nonsense.
>>
>> It's a wide band audio power tranny, not a SMPS.
>>
>>
>>
>>> You will need to have enough laminations
>>> (core) to not saturate at 20Hz.
>>
>> ** Right, full power at 20Hz happens all the time in audio ...
>>
>>    Strewth.
>>
>>
>>> I suggest the following specifications for your transformer:
>>>
>>> Autotransformer (bifilar winding)
>>> 20Hz - 20kHz
>>> Current - 10Arms
>>> Voltage rating is not a problem. Even the wire enamel can handle it.
>>> Suggested lamination source: Thomas & Skinner (No connection with them).
>>>
>>> I designed transformers, but have no experience with audio.
>>>
>>
>> ** If you did, you might know that a standard, tape wound toriodal core auto-tranny would meet the OP's spec with complete ease.
>>
> 
> It might weigh 100 pounds.
> 

Phil, if you are so knowledgeable, then design him a transformer and 
take his money. Otherwise, shut the fuck up.