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Coil driver simulation and questions

Started by Unknown February 4, 2019
Could some electronics guru here please clarify the
following. 

I did a SPICE simulation of a coil driver. A simple
astable multivibrator @ 150 KHz provides the signals
@ the bases of two 2N3055 BJTs. The collectors of 
each 2N3055 is tied to a coil. The coil is bifilar,
with the common node connected to a 15 V DC source.
Each inductor of the coil has value of 0.075 uH. The
emitter of each 2N3055 is connected to a 5 Ohm
resistor to ground, as a current limiter. The voltage 
output at the emitter consists of triangular spikes of 
of mahnitude 125mV abd the curent through the same 
node consists odf triangular spikes of magnitude 30mA 

Couls someobe please tell me if the results are as 
expected ? I have never worked on coil drivers 
and such in the past.

All hints, suggestions are welcome. Thanks in 
advance.
  
 
I think your numbers are wrong

75nH is very low and at a on time of 3us at 15V will give you a peak current of 666A

Please check your simulation and of possible share a screenshot,  lot easier to help then

Cheers 

Klaus 
On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 3:11:06 AM UTC-5, klaus.k...@gmail.com wrote:
> I think your numbers are wrong > > 75nH is very low and at a on time of 3us at 15V will give you a peak current of 666A > > Please check your simulation and of possible share a screenshot, lot easier to help then > > Cheers > > Klaus
Could you please be a bit more specific ? I would be happy to send a screenshot of the emiiter output current and/or voltage, but I would then need a email address or something, as this news group does not allow attachments.
On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 5:25:03 AM UTC-5, Clifford Heath wrote:
> On 4/2/19 6:03 pm, dakupoto@gmail.com wrote: > > Could some electronics guru here please clarify the > > following. > > > > I did a SPICE simulation of a coil driver. A simple > > astable multivibrator @ 150 KHz provides the signals > > @ the bases of two 2N3055 BJTs. > > I don't think the 2N3055 is specified to be fast enough for that, though > most recently manufactured ones are much faster than spec. I'm sure Phil > A will chime in if I'm wrong.
The base of each 2N3055 is driven by a relaxation oscillator at 150 Kilohertz. What is so fast about that ?
On 2/4/19 2:03 AM, dakupoto@gmail.com wrote:
> Could some electronics guru here please clarify the > following. > > I did a SPICE simulation of a coil driver. A simple > astable multivibrator @ 150 KHz provides the signals > @ the bases of two 2N3055 BJTs. The collectors of > each 2N3055 is tied to a coil. The coil is bifilar, > with the common node connected to a 15 V DC source. > Each inductor of the coil has value of 0.075 uH. The > emitter of each 2N3055 is connected to a 5 Ohm > resistor to ground, as a current limiter. The voltage > output at the emitter consists of triangular spikes of > of mahnitude 125mV abd the curent through the same > node consists odf triangular spikes of magnitude 30mA > > Couls someobe please tell me if the results are as > expected ? I have never worked on coil drivers > and such in the past. > > All hints, suggestions are welcome. Thanks in > advance. > > >
If it's LTspice, post the .asc file. Recently-made 2N3055s aren't as slow as the originals, but they're still slow. I don't know what speed your model runs at. 30 mA in 3 us from 15V corresponds to 3 us * 15V / 30 mA = 1500 uH so it isn't inductive. I suspect that you're dragging down your driver stage. Try using a voltage source to drive one of the bases and see. When you fix it, watch out for the magic pixel smoke. ;) Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 3:50:29 AM UTC-8, daku...@gmail.com wrote:

> The base of each 2N3055 is driven by a relaxation > oscillator at 150 Kilohertz. What is so fast about that ?
If those transistors go into saturation, the rise time when they turn off is very poor, by switchmode standards. A bit of capacitance across the 10 ohm resistors would help. So would a different transistor, with lower Rbb.
On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 2:03:31 AM UTC-5, daku...@gmail.com wrote:
> Could some electronics guru here please clarify the > following. > > I did a SPICE simulation of a coil driver. A simple > astable multivibrator @ 150 KHz provides the signals > @ the bases of two 2N3055 BJTs. The collectors of > each 2N3055 is tied to a coil. The coil is bifilar, > with the common node connected to a 15 V DC source. > Each inductor of the coil has value of 0.075 uH. The > emitter of each 2N3055 is connected to a 5 Ohm > resistor to ground, as a current limiter. The voltage > output at the emitter consists of triangular spikes of > of mahnitude 125mV abd the curent through the same > node consists odf triangular spikes of magnitude 30mA > > Couls someobe please tell me if the results are as > expected ? I have never worked on coil drivers > and such in the past. > > All hints, suggestions are welcome. Thanks in > advance.
A schematic would always help. What are you trying to do with the coils? At 30 mA why do you need such a beefy transistor? George H.
On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 3:58:36 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
> On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 3:50:29 AM UTC-8, daku...@gmail.com wrote: > > > The base of each 2N3055 is driven by a relaxation > > oscillator at 150 Kilohertz. What is so fast about that ? > > If those transistors go into saturation, the rise time when they turn off > is very poor, by switchmode standards. A bit of capacitance across > the 10 ohm resistors would help. So would a different transistor, with > lower Rbb.
Thanks, but I already tried out your suggestions before I made my initial post. For example, using a 0.01uF capacitor across the 10 Ohm and BC548(instead of 2N3055) boosts the current to 125 mA and the emitter voltage to 500 mV. The emitter output voltage consists of nice square wave and the collector current is also a nuce square wave.
dakupoto@gmail.com wrote

>On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 3:58:36 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote: >> On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 3:50:29 AM UTC-8, daku...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> > The base of each 2N3055 is driven by a relaxation >> > oscillator at 150 Kilohertz. What is so fast about that ? >> >> If those transistors go into saturation, the rise time when they turn off >> is very poor, by switchmode standards. A bit of capacitance across >> the 10 ohm resistors would help. So would a different transistor, with >> lower Rbb. > >Thanks, but I already tried out your suggestions >before I made my initial post. For example, using a 0.01uF capacitor across the 10 Ohm and BC548(instead >of 2N3055) boosts the current to 125 mA and the >emitter voltage to 500 mV. The emitter output voltage consists of nice square wave >and the collector current is also a nuce square wave.
The 2N3055 was not even up to audio frequencies with a beta of 20 to 70.. Ft of < 2.5 MHz The BC548 is low power with a beta of 200 (-B and -C version even higher), and an Ft of 100 MHz. For the current in an inductor i = t / L where t is the time in seconds the transistor is 100% on (as a switch). A 3055 will likely not be 100% on any time soon in less than 1 / 150.000 seconds ;-) A current limiting resistor in the emitter will create a current source, You do not want that if you use the transistor as a switch, unless it is a very low value and perhaps used to detect the current to dynamically trigger a cutoff. A small current transformer in the collector for feedback is better. Example of current sense feedback to a micro to dynamically current limit Ic every cycle: + | L | _____|_ feedback | }|| [ ] }|( 10:1 current transformer ___|__ }|| | c -- b e | /// What are you trying to do, circuit diagram? I have used IRLZ34N MOSFETS as switch at that frequency. There are many suitable MOSFETS.
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 03:50:24 -0800 (PST), dakupoto@gmail.com wrote:

>On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 5:25:03 AM UTC-5, Clifford Heath wrote: >> On 4/2/19 6:03 pm, dakupoto@gmail.com wrote: >> > Could some electronics guru here please clarify the >> > following. >> > >> > I did a SPICE simulation of a coil driver. A simple >> > astable multivibrator @ 150 KHz provides the signals >> > @ the bases of two 2N3055 BJTs. >> >> I don't think the 2N3055 is specified to be fast enough for that, though >> most recently manufactured ones are much faster than spec. I'm sure Phil >> A will chime in if I'm wrong. > >The base of each 2N3055 is driven by a relaxation >oscillator at 150 Kilohertz. What is so fast about that ?
For original 2N3055 the fT was just 800 kHz at small current, so the current gain for a 150 kHz sine wave would be only 5. The edges of a non-sine waveform would be severely rounded, hence requiring considerable base current. Modern 2N3055 are perhaps 3 times faster, but still very slow.