The LND150 model predicts IDSS of about 2.4 mA, whereas the actual parts cluster very tightly around 1.6 mA. Here's the model--what should I adjust to fix it? .MODEL LND150 NMOS (LEVEL=3 RS=150.00 NSUB=5.0E13 +DELTA=0.1 KAPPA=1.O TPG=1 CGDO=2.1716E-12 +RD=40.0 VTO=-2.0 VMAX=1.0E8 ETA=0.1 +NFS=6.6E10 TOX=1.0E-7 LD=1.698E-9 UO=862.425 +XJ=6.4666E-7 THETA=1.0E-5 CGSO=5.09E-10 L=10.0E-6 +W=600E-6) Thanks Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com

# Hacking a depletion MOSFET model

Started by ●May 5, 2018

Posted by ●May 5, 2018

On Sat, 5 May 2018 12:25:01 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>The LND150 model predicts IDSS of about 2.4 mA, whereas the actual parts >cluster very tightly around 1.6 mA. Here's the model--what should I >adjust to fix it? > >.MODEL LND150 NMOS (LEVEL=3 RS=150.00 NSUB=5.0E13 >+DELTA=0.1 KAPPA=1.O TPG=1 CGDO=2.1716E-12 >+RD=40.0 VTO=-2.0 VMAX=1.0E8 ETA=0.1 >+NFS=6.6E10 TOX=1.0E-7 LD=1.698E-9 UO=862.425 >+XJ=6.4666E-7 THETA=1.0E-5 CGSO=5.09E-10 L=10.0E-6 >+W=600E-6) > > >Thanks > >Phil HobbsJust change "M" from 1 to 0.667 ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions, by understanding what nature is hiding. "It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that is the secret of happiness." -James Barrie

Posted by ●May 5, 2018

On Sat, 5 May 2018 12:25:01 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>The LND150 model predicts IDSS of about 2.4 mA, whereas the actual parts >cluster very tightly around 1.6 mA. Here's the model--what should I >adjust to fix it? > >.MODEL LND150 NMOS (LEVEL=3 RS=150.00 NSUB=5.0E13 >+DELTA=0.1 KAPPA=1.O TPG=1 CGDO=2.1716E-12 >+RD=40.0 VTO=-2.0 VMAX=1.0E8 ETA=0.1 >+NFS=6.6E10 TOX=1.0E-7 LD=1.698E-9 UO=862.425 >+XJ=6.4666E-7 THETA=1.0E-5 CGSO=5.09E-10 L=10.0E-6 >+W=600E-6) > > >Thanks > >Phil HobbsYou could add a resistor in the source! -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics

Posted by ●May 5, 2018

On 05/05/18 12:41, Jim Thompson wrote:> On Sat, 5 May 2018 12:25:01 -0400, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> The LND150 model predicts IDSS of about 2.4 mA, whereas the actual parts >> cluster very tightly around 1.6 mA. Here's the model--what should I >> adjust to fix it? >> >> .MODEL LND150 NMOS (LEVEL=3 RS=150.00 NSUB=5.0E13 >> +DELTA=0.1 KAPPA=1.O TPG=1 CGDO=2.1716E-12 >> +RD=40.0 VTO=-2.0 VMAX=1.0E8 ETA=0.1 >> +NFS=6.6E10 TOX=1.0E-7 LD=1.698E-9 UO=862.425 >> +XJ=6.4666E-7 THETA=1.0E-5 CGSO=5.09E-10 L=10.0E-6 >> +W=600E-6) >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Phil Hobbs > > Just change "M" from 1 to 0.667 > > ...Jim Thompson >Tried adding .model LND150_16 ako:LND150 M=0.667 But it puked. Error on line 7624 : .model lnd150_16 nmos (level=3 rs=150.00 nsub=5.0e13 delta=0.1 kappa=1.o tpg=1 cgdo=2.1716e-12 rd=40.0 vto=-2.0 vmax=1.0e8 eta=0.1 nfs=6.6e10 tox=1.0e-7 ld=1.698e-9 uo=862.425 xj=6.4666e-7 theta=1.0e-5 cgso=5.09e-10 l=10.0e-6 w=600e-6) m=0.667 * Unrecognized parameter "m" -- ignored Maybe that parameter isn't in the level 3 model? Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com

Posted by ●May 5, 2018

On Sat, 5 May 2018 14:26:26 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>On 05/05/18 12:41, Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Sat, 5 May 2018 12:25:01 -0400, Phil Hobbs >> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >>> The LND150 model predicts IDSS of about 2.4 mA, whereas the actual parts >>> cluster very tightly around 1.6 mA. Here's the model--what should I >>> adjust to fix it? >>> >>> .MODEL LND150 NMOS (LEVEL=3 RS=150.00 NSUB=5.0E13 >>> +DELTA=0.1 KAPPA=1.O TPG=1 CGDO=2.1716E-12 >>> +RD=40.0 VTO=-2.0 VMAX=1.0E8 ETA=0.1 >>> +NFS=6.6E10 TOX=1.0E-7 LD=1.698E-9 UO=862.425 >>> +XJ=6.4666E-7 THETA=1.0E-5 CGSO=5.09E-10 L=10.0E-6 >>> +W=600E-6) >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Phil Hobbs >> >> Just change "M" from 1 to 0.667 >> >> ...Jim Thompson >> >Tried adding > >.model LND150_16 ako:LND150 M=0.667 > >But it puked. > >Error on line 7624 : .model lnd150_16 nmos (level=3 rs=150.00 >nsub=5.0e13 delta=0.1 kappa=1.o tpg=1 cgdo=2.1716e-12 rd=40.0 vto=-2.0 >vmax=1.0e8 eta=0.1 nfs=6.6e10 tox=1.0e-7 ld=1.698e-9 uo=862.425 >xj=6.4666e-7 theta=1.0e-5 cgso=5.09e-10 l=10.0e-6 w=600e-6) m=0.667 > * Unrecognized parameter "m" -- ignored > >Maybe that parameter isn't in the level 3 model? > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsI thought you were a Spice "expert" ?>:-} What .ASY are you using for the LND150? ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions, by understanding what nature is hiding. "It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that is the secret of happiness." -James Barrie

Posted by ●May 5, 2018

>> * Unrecognized parameter "m" -- ignored >> >>Maybe that parameter isn't in the level 3 model? > >I thought you were a Spice "expert" ?>:-}Nope, it isn't that useful for board-level stuff, except for smallish all-discrete designs where the models are reasonable, so that's one trick this particular pony prefers to delegate if possible. ;) The part is just an NMOS, no subcircuit. Cheers Phil Hobbs

Posted by ●May 5, 2018

On Sat, 05 May 2018 12:10:57 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:>On Sat, 5 May 2018 14:26:26 -0400, Phil Hobbs ><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >>On 05/05/18 12:41, Jim Thompson wrote: >>> On Sat, 5 May 2018 12:25:01 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>> >>>> The LND150 model predicts IDSS of about 2.4 mA, whereas the actual parts >>>> cluster very tightly around 1.6 mA. Here's the model--what should I >>>> adjust to fix it? >>>> >>>> .MODEL LND150 NMOS (LEVEL=3 RS=150.00 NSUB=5.0E13 >>>> +DELTA=0.1 KAPPA=1.O TPG=1 CGDO=2.1716E-12 >>>> +RD=40.0 VTO=-2.0 VMAX=1.0E8 ETA=0.1 >>>> +NFS=6.6E10 TOX=1.0E-7 LD=1.698E-9 UO=862.425 >>>> +XJ=6.4666E-7 THETA=1.0E-5 CGSO=5.09E-10 L=10.0E-6 >>>> +W=600E-6) >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Phil Hobbs >>> >>> Just change "M" from 1 to 0.667 >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >>> >>Tried adding >> >>.model LND150_16 ako:LND150 M=0.667 >> >>But it puked. >> >>Error on line 7624 : .model lnd150_16 nmos (level=3 rs=150.00 >>nsub=5.0e13 delta=0.1 kappa=1.o tpg=1 cgdo=2.1716e-12 rd=40.0 vto=-2.0 >>vmax=1.0e8 eta=0.1 nfs=6.6e10 tox=1.0e-7 ld=1.698e-9 uo=862.425 >>xj=6.4666e-7 theta=1.0e-5 cgso=5.09e-10 l=10.0e-6 w=600e-6) m=0.667 >> * Unrecognized parameter "m" -- ignored >> >>Maybe that parameter isn't in the level 3 model? >> >>Cheers >> >>Phil Hobbs > >I thought you were a Spice "expert" ?>:-}You might, once in a while, try being helpful without being snarky. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics

Posted by ●May 5, 2018

On Sat, 5 May 2018 12:44:10 -0700 (PDT), pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:>>> � � � � * Unrecognized parameter"m" -- ignored>>> >>>Maybe that parameter isn't in the level 3 model? >> >>I thought you were a Spice "expert" ?>:-} > >Nope, it isn't that useful for board-level stuff, except for smallish all-discretedesigns where the models are reasonable, so that's one trick this particular pony prefers to delegate if possible. ;)> >The part is just an NMOS, no subcircuit. > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsI Spice fairly big board-level designs. Helps me get all the loop dynamics right, and computes power dissipations, and makes pretty waveforms for manuals. Sometimes I actually design with Spice. I have a new high-voltage pulse generator topology that evolved (random mutation and selection) by fiddling with Spice. Spice understood the circuit before I did. I'm frying some inductors above 1 MHz pulse rate because LT Spice forgot to include skin effect. I also had a problem caused by Conservation of Energy, an unfortutate invention of some thoughtless physicists. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics

Posted by ●May 5, 2018

On Sat, 05 May 2018 12:48:44 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:>On Sat, 05 May 2018 12:10:57 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>On Sat, 5 May 2018 14:26:26 -0400, Phil Hobbs >><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >>>On 05/05/18 12:41, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> On Sat, 5 May 2018 12:25:01 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The LND150 model predicts IDSS of about 2.4 mA, whereas the actual parts >>>>> cluster very tightly around 1.6 mA. Here's the model--what should I >>>>> adjust to fix it? >>>>> >>>>> .MODEL LND150 NMOS (LEVEL=3 RS=150.00 NSUB=5.0E13 >>>>> +DELTA=0.1 KAPPA=1.O TPG=1 CGDO=2.1716E-12 >>>>> +RD=40.0 VTO=-2.0 VMAX=1.0E8 ETA=0.1 >>>>> +NFS=6.6E10 TOX=1.0E-7 LD=1.698E-9 UO=862.425 >>>>> +XJ=6.4666E-7 THETA=1.0E-5 CGSO=5.09E-10 L=10.0E-6 >>>>> +W=600E-6) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>> >>>> Just change "M" from 1 to 0.667 >>>> >>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>> >>>Tried adding >>> >>>.model LND150_16 ako:LND150 M=0.667 >>> >>>But it puked. >>> >>>Error on line 7624 : .model lnd150_16 nmos (level=3 rs=150.00 >>>nsub=5.0e13 delta=0.1 kappa=1.o tpg=1 cgdo=2.1716e-12 rd=40.0 vto=-2.0 >>>vmax=1.0e8 eta=0.1 nfs=6.6e10 tox=1.0e-7 ld=1.698e-9 uo=862.425 >>>xj=6.4666e-7 theta=1.0e-5 cgso=5.09e-10 l=10.0e-6 w=600e-6) m=0.667 >>> * Unrecognized parameter "m" -- ignored >>> >>>Maybe that parameter isn't in the level 3 model? >>> >>>Cheers >>> >>>Phil Hobbs >> >>I thought you were a Spice "expert" ?>:-} > >You might, once in a while, try being helpful without being snarky.Why did you snip this line, "What .ASY are you using for the LND150?" That's the "being helpful" part. The "snarky part" is because Engelhardt (sp?) doesn't follow standard spice convention... I expect AD to fix that once he's gone. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions, by understanding what nature is hiding. "It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that is the secret of happiness." -James Barrie

Posted by ●May 5, 2018

On Sat, 5 May 2018 12:44:10 -0700 (PDT), pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:>>> � � � � * Unrecognized parameter"m" -- ignored>>> >>>Maybe that parameter isn't in the level 3 model? >> >>I thought you were a Spice "expert" ?>:-} > >Nope, it isn't that useful for board-level stuff, except for smallish all-discretedesigns where the models are reasonable, so that's one trick this particular pony prefers to delegate if possible. ;)> >The part is just an NMOS, no subcircuit. > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsRepeating myself, "What .ASY are you using for the LND150?" ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions, by understanding what nature is hiding. "It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that is the secret of happiness." -James Barrie