On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 08:42:45 +0100, "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote:>"John Larkin" wrote in message >news:2r95nc5ls1rrm7cmp5ptn26kmlrroi6jpp@4ax.com... > >On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 21:25:00 +0100, "Kevin Aylward" ><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: > >>"John Larkin" wrote in message >>news:m794nclodso7tu7c9bihmic1cuqtuf4ufa@4ax.com... >> >> >> >>> Companies buy companies because the bought companies are eating >>>>onto the buying companies revenues. The buying company wants the, now get >>>>this, the *Customers* of the bought company, and secondly, their >>>>*products* >>>>that customers *buy*. LT gets billions of revenue from paying customers, >>>>that's what ADI want and bought. Dah.... >>>> >>>>LTSpice is just a nice icing on the cake sort of thing. If it ceased to >>>>exist, it ut bwould make F'all difference. That's reality. >> >>>It's a major sales tool. >> >>No. Its a sales tool. >> >>>People pay for sales tools. >> >>Sure, but not $1B. >> >>>When I made the suggestion to the LT/ADI transition team, nobody >>>contradicted me. I'd guess that LT Spice added at least a billion >>>dollars to the deal. >> >>>Complete and utter nonsense. >> >>>Like, Cadence do about $2B revenue. Candace is THE mainstream de-facto >>>system in IC design. You know, the things that the world runs on. >> >>>You're trying to claim that the LT Freebee is on a par in value. >> >>>LT do about $2B in physical sales. You are effectively trying to claim >>>that >>>if LTSpice didn't exist, LT would lose like $100Ms of dollars. Bullshit. >> >>>You really need to stand back and think about the big picture. >> >>>People buy LT parts because of the performance, not because of a >>>simulater. >>>Period. >> >>>LTSpice only has to improve sales by say, a million or so to justify its >>>existence, i.e Mike's salary :-). I agree, it probably does that, and such >>>a >>>salary pisses me off no end.... >>> > >>In summary, you are jealous of LT Spice and its author. > >The summary, is that some here have absolutely no idea whatsoever of the >value of some marketing tools. > >AD do about $3B in product. > >How much would it cost to for any company to get the Spice3 code, and hire >someone to write a GUI for it? Like a few $100k ? > >Hint: you can buy 3rd party GUI tools that have schematic capture as a drop >in component. > >Do your really think all the other companies are so totally stupid that they >wouldn't invest a few hundred $ to produce a full featured Spice to give >away for free if it would net them a $1B more a year in revenue. Get real. > > >-- Kevin Aylward >http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice >http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.htmlADI paid 14.8 big ones for LTC. LTC charges at least 2x what other people charge for similar functions. LT Spice helps them do that. TI's sim stuff won't even run on my PC for some reason. So I use LTC parts unless the cost impact is extreme. TPS54302 is a great little switcher, but I had to spend an afternoon breadboard fiddling to figure out all my needed compansations with various caps and voltages. I'll use a lot of them, so it was worth it. But neither TI's data sheet nor their software was much help. Colleges use LT Spice all over the world. It has its own culture. Culture matters. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
LT spice, leakage inductance
Started by ●July 20, 2017
Reply by ●July 22, 20172017-07-22
Reply by ●July 22, 20172017-07-22
>Do your really think all the other companies are so totally stupid that they >wouldn't invest a few hundred $ to produce a full featured Spice to give >away for free if it would net them a $1B more a year in revenue.A lot of people would do a lot of things differently if only they had a time machine. LTspice has been free since the dotcom days. Other folks have tried a limited sort of catch-up, e.g. National's Webench and TI's (horribly crippled) TINA. Compared with LTspice they all stink. And you're talking $1B revenue, while JL is talking purchase price. I don't think it's that far-fetched to say that 7% of LTC's value comes from LTspice. They took a big risk way back then, and it paid off. Cheers Phil Hobbs
Reply by ●July 22, 20172017-07-22
On 2017-07-22 07:43, John Larkin wrote:> On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 08:42:45 +0100, "Kevin Aylward" > <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: > >> "John Larkin" wrote in message >> news:2r95nc5ls1rrm7cmp5ptn26kmlrroi6jpp@4ax.com... >> >> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 21:25:00 +0100, "Kevin Aylward" >> <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> "John Larkin" wrote in message >>> news:m794nclodso7tu7c9bihmic1cuqtuf4ufa@4ax.com... >>> >>> >>> >>>> Companies buy companies because the bought companies are eating >>>>> onto the buying companies revenues. The buying company wants the, now get >>>>> this, the *Customers* of the bought company, and secondly, their >>>>> *products* >>>>> that customers *buy*. LT gets billions of revenue from paying customers, >>>>> that's what ADI want and bought. Dah.... >>>>> >>>>> LTSpice is just a nice icing on the cake sort of thing. If it ceased to >>>>> exist, it ut bwould make F'all difference. That's reality. >>> >>>> It's a major sales tool. >>> >>> No. Its a sales tool. >>> >>>> People pay for sales tools. >>> >>> Sure, but not $1B. >>> >>>> When I made the suggestion to the LT/ADI transition team, nobody >>>> contradicted me. I'd guess that LT Spice added at least a billion >>>> dollars to the deal. >>> >>>> Complete and utter nonsense. >>> >>>> Like, Cadence do about $2B revenue. Candace is THE mainstream de-facto >>>> system in IC design. You know, the things that the world runs on. >>> >>>> You're trying to claim that the LT Freebee is on a par in value. >>> >>>> LT do about $2B in physical sales. You are effectively trying to claim >>>> that >>>> if LTSpice didn't exist, LT would lose like $100Ms of dollars. Bullshit. >>> >>>> You really need to stand back and think about the big picture. >>> >>>> People buy LT parts because of the performance, not because of a >>>> simulater. >>>> Period. >>> >>>> LTSpice only has to improve sales by say, a million or so to justify its >>>> existence, i.e Mike's salary :-). I agree, it probably does that, and such >>>> a >>>> salary pisses me off no end.... >>>> >> >>> In summary, you are jealous of LT Spice and its author. >> >> The summary, is that some here have absolutely no idea whatsoever of the >> value of some marketing tools. >> >> AD do about $3B in product. >> >> How much would it cost to for any company to get the Spice3 code, and hire >> someone to write a GUI for it? Like a few $100k ? >> >> Hint: you can buy 3rd party GUI tools that have schematic capture as a drop >> in component. >> >> Do your really think all the other companies are so totally stupid that they >> wouldn't invest a few hundred $ to produce a full featured Spice to give >> away for free if it would net them a $1B more a year in revenue. Get real. >> >> >> -- Kevin Aylward >> http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice >> http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html > > ADI paid 14.8 big ones for LTC. LTC charges at least 2x what other > people charge for similar functions. LT Spice helps them do that. > > TI's sim stuff won't even run on my PC for some reason. So I use LTC > parts unless the cost impact is extreme. > > TPS54302 is a great little switcher, but I had to spend an afternoon > breadboard fiddling to figure out all my needed compansations with > various caps and voltages. I'll use a lot of them, so it was worth it. > But neither TI's data sheet nor their software was much help. > > Colleges use LT Spice all over the world. It has its own culture. > Culture matters. >I'll second all that. 100%. I don't know how much sales I generated for LTC because of LTSpice but it likely was 7-digit. And I am only one of many. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●July 22, 20172017-07-22
On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 11:40:34 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:>On 2017-07-22 07:43, John Larkin wrote:[snip]>> >> TPS54302 is a great little switcher, but I had to spend an afternoon >> breadboard fiddling to figure out all my needed compansations with >> various caps and voltages. I'll use a lot of them, so it was worth it. >> But neither TI's data sheet nor their software was much help. >> >> Colleges use LT Spice all over the world. It has its own culture. >> Culture matters. >> > >I'll second all that. 100%. > >I don't know how much sales I generated for LTC because of LTSpice but >it likely was 7-digit. And I am only one of many.Designed any chips with LTspice? ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I'm looking for work... see my website. Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.
Reply by ●July 22, 20172017-07-22
On Saturday, July 22, 2017 at 8:40:24 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:> On 2017-07-22 07:43, John Larkin wrote: > > On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 08:42:45 +0100, "Kevin Aylward" > > <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: > > > >> "John Larkin" wrote in message > >> news:2r95nc5ls1rrm7cmp5ptn26kmlrroi6jpp@4ax.com... > >> > >> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 21:25:00 +0100, "Kevin Aylward" > >> <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: > >> > >>> "John Larkin" wrote in message > >>> news:m794nclodso7tu7c9bihmic1cuqtuf4ufa@4ax.com... > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> Companies buy companies because the bought companies are eating > >>>>> onto the buying companies revenues. The buying company wants the, now get > >>>>> this, the *Customers* of the bought company, and secondly, their > >>>>> *products* > >>>>> that customers *buy*. LT gets billions of revenue from paying customers, > >>>>> that's what ADI want and bought. Dah.... > >>>>> > >>>>> LTSpice is just a nice icing on the cake sort of thing. If it ceased to > >>>>> exist, it ut bwould make F'all difference. That's reality. > >>> > >>>> It's a major sales tool. > >>> > >>> No. Its a sales tool. > >>> > >>>> People pay for sales tools. > >>> > >>> Sure, but not $1B. > >>> > >>>> When I made the suggestion to the LT/ADI transition team, nobody > >>>> contradicted me. I'd guess that LT Spice added at least a billion > >>>> dollars to the deal. > >>> > >>>> Complete and utter nonsense. > >>> > >>>> Like, Cadence do about $2B revenue. Candace is THE mainstream de-facto > >>>> system in IC design. You know, the things that the world runs on. > >>> > >>>> You're trying to claim that the LT Freebee is on a par in value. > >>> > >>>> LT do about $2B in physical sales. You are effectively trying to claim > >>>> that > >>>> if LTSpice didn't exist, LT would lose like $100Ms of dollars. Bullshit. > >>> > >>>> You really need to stand back and think about the big picture. > >>> > >>>> People buy LT parts because of the performance, not because of a > >>>> simulater. > >>>> Period. > >>> > >>>> LTSpice only has to improve sales by say, a million or so to justify its > >>>> existence, i.e Mike's salary :-). I agree, it probably does that, and such > >>>> a > >>>> salary pisses me off no end.... > >>>> > >> > >>> In summary, you are jealous of LT Spice and its author. > >> > >> The summary, is that some here have absolutely no idea whatsoever of the > >> value of some marketing tools. > >> > >> AD do about $3B in product. > >> > >> How much would it cost to for any company to get the Spice3 code, and hire > >> someone to write a GUI for it? Like a few $100k ? > >> > >> Hint: you can buy 3rd party GUI tools that have schematic capture as a drop > >> in component. > >> > >> Do your really think all the other companies are so totally stupid that they > >> wouldn't invest a few hundred $ to produce a full featured Spice to give > >> away for free if it would net them a $1B more a year in revenue. Get real. > >> > >> > >> -- Kevin Aylward > >> http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice > >> http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html > > > > ADI paid 14.8 big ones for LTC. LTC charges at least 2x what other > > people charge for similar functions. LT Spice helps them do that. > > > > TI's sim stuff won't even run on my PC for some reason. So I use LTC > > parts unless the cost impact is extreme. > > > > TPS54302 is a great little switcher, but I had to spend an afternoon > > breadboard fiddling to figure out all my needed compansations with > > various caps and voltages. I'll use a lot of them, so it was worth it. > > But neither TI's data sheet nor their software was much help. > > > > Colleges use LT Spice all over the world. It has its own culture. > > Culture matters. > > > > I'll second all that. 100%. > > I don't know how much sales I generated for LTC because of LTSpice but > it likely was 7-digit. And I am only one of many. >I don't believe that for a second I have worked at 6 different firms and I have never come across any colleagues using a single LT part. Only here at SED Cheers Klaus
Reply by ●July 22, 20172017-07-22
On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 12:01:43 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:>On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 11:40:34 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >wrote: > >>On 2017-07-22 07:43, John Larkin wrote: > >[snip] >>> >>> TPS54302 is a great little switcher, but I had to spend an afternoon >>> breadboard fiddling to figure out all my needed compansations with >>> various caps and voltages. I'll use a lot of them, so it was worth it. >>> But neither TI's data sheet nor their software was much help. >>> >>> Colleges use LT Spice all over the world. It has its own culture. >>> Culture matters. >>> >> >>I'll second all that. 100%. >> >>I don't know how much sales I generated for LTC because of LTSpice but >>it likely was 7-digit. And I am only one of many. > >Designed any chips with LTspice? > > ...Jim ThompsonTPS54302 Spice model is encrypted... <http://www.ti.com/lit/zip/slvmbl9> just what I've been harping about. Models that won't run on ANY Berkeley-Spice-compliant simulator aren't worth the powder to blow 'em to hell. Me, I can always resort to rolling my own, you peasants are SOL ;-) Right now I'm writing a model for a pressure-sensing MEMS... probably take me a hour or two >:-} ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I'm looking for work... see my website. Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.
Reply by ●July 22, 20172017-07-22
On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 12:05:37 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:>On Saturday, July 22, 2017 at 8:40:24 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote: >> On 2017-07-22 07:43, John Larkin wrote:[snip]>> > >> > Colleges use LT Spice all over the world. It has its own culture. >> > Culture matters. >> > >> >> I'll second all that. 100%. >> >> I don't know how much sales I generated for LTC because of LTSpice but >> it likely was 7-digit. And I am only one of many. >> >I don't believe that for a second > >I have worked at 6 different firms and I have never come across any colleagues using a single LT part. Only here at SED > >Cheers > >Klaus{>:-} Right down there with Microchip Analog parts ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I'm looking for work... see my website. Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.
Reply by ●July 22, 20172017-07-22
On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 11:40:34 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:>On 2017-07-22 07:43, John Larkin wrote: >> On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 08:42:45 +0100, "Kevin Aylward" >> <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> "John Larkin" wrote in message >>> news:2r95nc5ls1rrm7cmp5ptn26kmlrroi6jpp@4ax.com... >>> >>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 21:25:00 +0100, "Kevin Aylward" >>> <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> "John Larkin" wrote in message >>>> news:m794nclodso7tu7c9bihmic1cuqtuf4ufa@4ax.com... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Companies buy companies because the bought companies are eating >>>>>> onto the buying companies revenues. The buying company wants the, now get >>>>>> this, the *Customers* of the bought company, and secondly, their >>>>>> *products* >>>>>> that customers *buy*. LT gets billions of revenue from paying customers, >>>>>> that's what ADI want and bought. Dah.... >>>>>> >>>>>> LTSpice is just a nice icing on the cake sort of thing. If it ceased to >>>>>> exist, it ut bwould make F'all difference. That's reality. >>>> >>>>> It's a major sales tool. >>>> >>>> No. Its a sales tool. >>>> >>>>> People pay for sales tools. >>>> >>>> Sure, but not $1B. >>>> >>>>> When I made the suggestion to the LT/ADI transition team, nobody >>>>> contradicted me. I'd guess that LT Spice added at least a billion >>>>> dollars to the deal. >>>> >>>>> Complete and utter nonsense. >>>> >>>>> Like, Cadence do about $2B revenue. Candace is THE mainstream de-facto >>>>> system in IC design. You know, the things that the world runs on. >>>> >>>>> You're trying to claim that the LT Freebee is on a par in value. >>>> >>>>> LT do about $2B in physical sales. You are effectively trying to claim >>>>> that >>>>> if LTSpice didn't exist, LT would lose like $100Ms of dollars. Bullshit. >>>> >>>>> You really need to stand back and think about the big picture. >>>> >>>>> People buy LT parts because of the performance, not because of a >>>>> simulater. >>>>> Period. >>>> >>>>> LTSpice only has to improve sales by say, a million or so to justify its >>>>> existence, i.e Mike's salary :-). I agree, it probably does that, and such >>>>> a >>>>> salary pisses me off no end.... >>>>> >>> >>>> In summary, you are jealous of LT Spice and its author. >>> >>> The summary, is that some here have absolutely no idea whatsoever of the >>> value of some marketing tools. >>> >>> AD do about $3B in product. >>> >>> How much would it cost to for any company to get the Spice3 code, and hire >>> someone to write a GUI for it? Like a few $100k ? >>> >>> Hint: you can buy 3rd party GUI tools that have schematic capture as a drop >>> in component. >>> >>> Do your really think all the other companies are so totally stupid that they >>> wouldn't invest a few hundred $ to produce a full featured Spice to give >>> away for free if it would net them a $1B more a year in revenue. Get real. >>> >>> >>> -- Kevin Aylward >>> http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice >>> http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html >> >> ADI paid 14.8 big ones for LTC. LTC charges at least 2x what other >> people charge for similar functions. LT Spice helps them do that. >> >> TI's sim stuff won't even run on my PC for some reason. So I use LTC >> parts unless the cost impact is extreme. >> >> TPS54302 is a great little switcher, but I had to spend an afternoon >> breadboard fiddling to figure out all my needed compansations with >> various caps and voltages. I'll use a lot of them, so it was worth it. >> But neither TI's data sheet nor their software was much help. >> >> Colleges use LT Spice all over the world. It has its own culture. >> Culture matters. >> > >I'll second all that. 100%. > >I don't know how much sales I generated for LTC because of LTSpice but >it likely was 7-digit. And I am only one of many.Literally millions of kids will get EE degrees where they learned to use LT Spice. LTS has mediocre documentation and HELP, and lots of hidden features, and the best tutorials are written by college profs, for their students. All those kids will go out and continue to use LT Spice, and spec LTC parts. [1] [2] They won't be using SuperSpice much, because the student version is badly crippled and not free. [1] not everyone battles to find the lowest-price parts. I've known engineers that preferred expensive parts, because they thought they might be better, or just because it made them feel more important. [2] NI understands this dynamic too. When I was a kid, I worked summers in a college electronics lab, for 85 cents an hour. Fairchild and TI would send us boxes of their newfangled silicon transistors; same idea. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
Reply by ●July 22, 20172017-07-22
On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 12:09:07 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:>On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 12:01:43 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 11:40:34 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>wrote: >> >>>On 2017-07-22 07:43, John Larkin wrote: >> >>[snip] >>>> >>>> TPS54302 is a great little switcher, but I had to spend an afternoon >>>> breadboard fiddling to figure out all my needed compansations with >>>> various caps and voltages. I'll use a lot of them, so it was worth it. >>>> But neither TI's data sheet nor their software was much help. >>>> >>>> Colleges use LT Spice all over the world. It has its own culture. >>>> Culture matters. >>>> >>> >>>I'll second all that. 100%. >>> >>>I don't know how much sales I generated for LTC because of LTSpice but >>>it likely was 7-digit. And I am only one of many. >> >>Designed any chips with LTspice? >> >> ...Jim Thompson > >TPS54302 Spice model is encrypted... > ><http://www.ti.com/lit/zip/slvmbl9>Yikes, what a mess!> >just what I've been harping about. > >Models that won't run on ANY Berkeley-Spice-compliant simulator aren't >worth the powder to blow 'em to hell.I just designed a DAC-programmable 0-70V flyback supply, using the LTC3803 and a DRQ127 dual inductor. (I can post the file if anyone is interested.) LT Spice and their black-box model worked fine for me. I've done similar LT sims, and the hardware has always worked as simulated. That's worth a lot to me! LT Spice .asc files are the standard for sharing schematics here. I share .asc files with my friends and customers, too. Everybody does.> >Me, I can always resort to rolling my own, you peasants are SOL ;-)I can and do make my own part models. LT Spice doesn't mind. And I have imported non-encrypted non-LT device models for fets and transistors and opamps and things... models of varying quality.> >Right now I'm writing a model for a pressure-sensing MEMS... probably >take me a hour or two >:-}Does it need a model? -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
Reply by ●July 22, 20172017-07-22
On 2017-07-22 12:01, Jim Thompson wrote:> On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 11:40:34 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> On 2017-07-22 07:43, John Larkin wrote: > > [snip] >>> >>> TPS54302 is a great little switcher, but I had to spend an afternoon >>> breadboard fiddling to figure out all my needed compansations with >>> various caps and voltages. I'll use a lot of them, so it was worth it. >>> But neither TI's data sheet nor their software was much help. >>> >>> Colleges use LT Spice all over the world. It has its own culture. >>> Culture matters. >>> >> >> I'll second all that. 100%. >> >> I don't know how much sales I generated for LTC because of LTSpice but >> it likely was 7-digit. And I am only one of many. > > Designed any chips with LTspice? >Only sections. With chips I mostly did the architecture, the spec sheet and then once in a while a small unorthodox section which was then handed to the IC designer, who then usually transcribed to HSpice or whatever they were using. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
