Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

Started by Robert Clark July 3, 2017
An article from 2015:

3-D-printed car could hit streets next year. Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY 4:48 
p.m. EST November 12, 2015
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/11/10/3d-printed-car-local-motors-swim/75530830/

Several companies have come out with what they call "3D-printed" cars, but 
none have 3D-printed the most important part, the engine.

This would be difficult to do with an internal combustion engine, with its 
high temperatures, multiple moving parts, and high tolerances.

But it shouldn't be too difficult with an electric engine. In fact 
considering there are now miniature 3D-printers on the market for the home, 
an amateur could be the first to produce an entire, scale-size, 3D-printed 
car.
And then it could be scaled up to produce a full-size, working, fully 
3D-printed automobile.

This would revolutionize the industry, obviously.

The two most difficult parts would be the engine and the transmission.

This video shows how you can make your own simple electric motor:

How to Make an Electric Motor at Home - YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p2QTE26VOA

Looking at the steps in the video, it appears they could all be accomplished 
by 3D-printing.


  Bob Clark

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Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize 
21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital 
launchers, to 'flying cars'.
This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it:

Nanotech: from air to space.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanotech-from-air-to-space/x/13319568/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On 07/03/2017 08:31 AM, Robert Clark wrote:

> But it shouldn't be too difficult with an electric engine. In fact > considering there are now miniature 3D-printers on the market for the > home, an amateur could be the first to produce an entire, scale-size, > 3D-printed car. > And then it could be scaled up to produce a full-size, working, fully > 3D-printed automobile.
For a hobbyist trying to design/build their own electric vehicle acquiring or fabricating the chassis is literally the least difficult part of the job. Why would you want to make it _more_ difficult
> This video shows how you can make your own simple electric motor: > > How to Make an Electric Motor at Home - YouTube. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p2QTE26VOA
Why bother, it's not like high performance electric motors are rare.
> Looking at the steps in the video, it appears they could all be > accomplished by 3D-printing.
Insisting that every part of a homebrew EV also be 3D printed at home from one's personal 3D printer is a tits-on-a-bull project for turbodorks.
On Monday, July 3, 2017 at 5:31:25 AM UTC-7, Robert Clark wrote:
> An article from 2015: > > 3-D-printed car could hit streets next year. Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY 4:48 > p.m. EST November 12, 2015 >
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/11/10/3d-printed-car-local-motors-swim/75530830/
> > Several companies have come out with what they call "3D-printed" cars, but > none have 3D-printed the most important part, the engine. > > This would be difficult to do with an internal combustion engine, with its > high temperatures, multiple moving parts, and high tolerances. > > But it shouldn't be too difficult with an electric engine. In fact > considering there are now miniature 3D-printers on the market for the home, > an amateur could be the first to produce an entire, scale-size, 3D-printed > car. > And then it could be scaled up to produce a full-size, working, fully > 3D-printed automobile. > > This would revolutionize the industry, obviously.
Yes, everybody should build their own car, DIY.
> > The two most difficult parts would be the engine and the transmission.
Why would you need transmission? Tesla uses gear, no transmission. My Maxwell 2020 use wheel hub motors, no transmission and no gear.
On Monday, July 3, 2017 at 6:04:10 AM UTC-7, bitrex wrote:
> On 07/03/2017 08:31 AM, Robert Clark wrote: > > > But it shouldn't be too difficult with an electric engine. In fact > > considering there are now miniature 3D-printers on the market for the > > home, an amateur could be the first to produce an entire, scale-size, > > 3D-printed car. > > And then it could be scaled up to produce a full-size, working, fully > > 3D-printed automobile. > > For a hobbyist trying to design/build their own electric vehicle > acquiring or fabricating the chassis is literally the least difficult > part of the job. Why would you want to make it _more_ difficult > > > This video shows how you can make your own simple electric motor: > > > > How to Make an Electric Motor at Home - YouTube. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p2QTE26VOA > > Why bother, it's not like high performance electric motors are rare. > > > Looking at the steps in the video, it appears they could all be > > accomplished by 3D-printing. > > Insisting that every part of a homebrew EV also be 3D printed at home > from one's personal 3D printer is a tits-on-a-bull project for turbodorks.
Yes, 3D printed aluminum would be too expensive and unreliable. Much cheaper to die cast.
On Mon, 03 Jul 2017 08:31:17 -0400, Robert Clark wrote:

> An article from 2015: > > 3-D-printed car could hit streets next year. Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY 4:48 > p.m. EST November 12, 2015 >
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/11/10/3d-printed-car-local-motors-swim/75530830/
> > Several companies have come out with what they call "3D-printed" cars, but > none have 3D-printed the most important part, the engine. > > This would be difficult to do with an internal combustion engine, with its > high temperatures, multiple moving parts, and high tolerances. >
[snip]
> > Bob Clark > >
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize > 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital > launchers, to 'flying cars'. > This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: > > Nanotech: from air to space. > https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanotech-from-air-to-space/x/13319568/ >
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Similar principle as 3d printing, GE Additive is making jet engine parts http://www.geadditive.com/ -- Chisolm Republic of Texas
On Mon, 03 Jul 2017 11:09:23 -0500, Joe Chisolm
<jchisolm6@earthlink.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 03 Jul 2017 08:31:17 -0400, Robert Clark wrote: > >> An article from 2015: >> >> 3-D-printed car could hit streets next year. Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY 4:48 >> p.m. EST November 12, 2015 >>
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/11/10/3d-printed-car-local-motors-swim/75530830/
>> >> Several companies have come out with what they call "3D-printed" cars, but >> none have 3D-printed the most important part, the engine. >> >> This would be difficult to do with an internal combustion engine, with its >> high temperatures, multiple moving parts, and high tolerances. >> >[snip] >> >> Bob Clark >> >>
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>> Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize >> 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital >> launchers, to 'flying cars'. >> This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: >> >> Nanotech: from air to space. >> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanotech-from-air-to-space/x/13319568/ >>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nanotech was the hot wave of the future 10 or 15 years ago. Aren't people tired of buckyballs and nanotubes and graphene yet?
> >Similar principle as 3d printing, GE Additive is making jet engine parts > >http://www.geadditive.com/
But you couldn't 3D print a copper coil or a supermagnet or a ball bearing. And additive is *slow*. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
In sci.physics Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmspambloackail.com> wrote:
> An article from 2015: > > 3-D-printed car could hit streets next year. Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY 4:48 > p.m. EST November 12, 2015 >
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/11/10/3d-printed-car-local-motors-swim/75530830/
> > Several companies have come out with what they call "3D-printed" cars, but > none have 3D-printed the most important part, the engine. > > This would be difficult to do with an internal combustion engine, with its > high temperatures, multiple moving parts, and high tolerances. > > But it shouldn't be too difficult with an electric engine. In fact > considering there are now miniature 3D-printers on the market for the home, > an amateur could be the first to produce an entire, scale-size, 3D-printed > car. > And then it could be scaled up to produce a full-size, working, fully > 3D-printed automobile. > > This would revolutionize the industry, obviously. > > The two most difficult parts would be the engine and the transmission. > > This video shows how you can make your own simple electric motor: > > How to Make an Electric Motor at Home - YouTube. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p2QTE26VOA > > Looking at the steps in the video, it appears they could all be accomplished > by 3D-printing. > > > Bob Clark > >
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize > 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital > launchers, to 'flying cars'. > This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: > > Nanotech: from air to space. > https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanotech-from-air-to-space/x/13319568/ >
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arm waving nonsense. You need multiple 3D printers if you need to print with multiple materials. Consumer 3D printers print small parts from cheap plastic and cost hundreds of dollars. Industrial 3D printers that print large parts with metals cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and the printing material costs more than raw metal stock. 3D printing is advantageous for parts with complex shapes that are difficult or impossible to make with other techniques but is disadvantageous for most parts that ARE manufacturable with conventional techniques as they can be made faster and cheaper. 3D printing makes PARTS that still need to be assembled. 3D printing an electric motor is just silly. -- Jim Pennino
In article <b2aq2e-5d6.ln1@mail.specsol.com>, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com 
says...
> Arm waving nonsense. > > You need multiple 3D printers if you need to print with multiple materials. > > Consumer 3D printers print small parts from cheap plastic and cost hundreds > of dollars. > > Industrial 3D printers that print large parts with metals cost hundreds of > thousands of dollars and the printing material costs more than raw metal > stock. > > 3D printing is advantageous for parts with complex shapes that are difficult > or impossible to make with other techniques but is disadvantageous for > most parts that ARE manufacturable with conventional techniques as they > can be made faster and cheaper. > > 3D printing makes PARTS that still need to be assembled. > > 3D printing an electric motor is just silly. >
I'm generally in agreement with all of the above. That motor which was 3D printed is a toy. That toy motor is far simpler than a stepper motor, so any thought of 3D printers printing other 3D printers is just a fantasy at this point. Today's "state of the art" of 3D printing does not make it a panacea for manufacturing. Furthermore, 3D printing with locally produced (non- earth) materials is decades away. But progress is being made in the field. GE is working on producing a 3D printer capable of printing 1 meter x 1 meter x 1 meter parts. This is coming from its aircraft engine division. 3D printing is a very hot topic these days. Jeff -- All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone. These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends, employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
In sci.physics Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> wrote:
> In article <b2aq2e-5d6.ln1@mail.specsol.com>, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com > says... >> Arm waving nonsense. >> >> You need multiple 3D printers if you need to print with multiple materials. >> >> Consumer 3D printers print small parts from cheap plastic and cost hundreds >> of dollars. >> >> Industrial 3D printers that print large parts with metals cost hundreds of >> thousands of dollars and the printing material costs more than raw metal >> stock. >> >> 3D printing is advantageous for parts with complex shapes that are difficult >> or impossible to make with other techniques but is disadvantageous for >> most parts that ARE manufacturable with conventional techniques as they >> can be made faster and cheaper. >> >> 3D printing makes PARTS that still need to be assembled. >> >> 3D printing an electric motor is just silly. >> > > I'm generally in agreement with all of the above. That motor which was > 3D printed is a toy. That toy motor is far simpler than a stepper > motor, so any thought of 3D printers printing other 3D printers is just > a fantasy at this point. > > Today's "state of the art" of 3D printing does not make it a panacea for > manufacturing. Furthermore, 3D printing with locally produced (non- > earth) materials is decades away.
3D printing requires special raw stock manufactured just for 3D printing no matter what the print material is. 3D printing is slow and expensive compared to any other method of making parts so only become economical if the part in question is so complex that 3D printing it is cheaper than any other method. The cost and speed of 3D printing will obviously never match that of stamping out sheet metal, casting, or NC machining.
> But progress is being made in the field. GE is working on producing a > 3D printer capable of printing 1 meter x 1 meter x 1 meter parts. This > is coming from its aircraft engine division. 3D printing is a very hot > topic these days.
Yes, for very complex parts that would otherwise have to be made in pieces then somehow assempled.
> > Jeff
-- Jim Pennino
In article <mueq2e-6t6.ln1@mail.specsol.com>, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com 
says...
> 3D printing requires special raw stock manufactured just for 3D printing > no matter what the print material is. > > 3D printing is slow and expensive compared to any other method of making > parts so only become economical if the part in question is so complex that > 3D printing it is cheaper than any other method.
Actually if the 3D printed part replaces many other parts (e.g. SuperDraco engines) then it's faster to print than it is to manufacture and assemble all those other parts. But that does fall under your "so complex" exception because in that case it is cheaper to print than try to use other manufacturing techniques. In aerospace, think things like liquid fueled rocket engine combustion chambers with lots of tiny internal cooling passages. Those are a p.i.t.a. to make using conventional manufacturing techniques, but a breeze to 3D print.
> The cost and speed of 3D printing will obviously never match that of > stamping out sheet metal, casting, or NC machining.
For "trivial" parts, that is true. I installed a new garage door at home a few weeks ago. Lots of stamped sheet metal parts there, even the hinges.
> > But progress is being made in the field. GE is working on producing a > > 3D printer capable of printing 1 meter x 1 meter x 1 meter parts. This > > is coming from its aircraft engine division. 3D printing is a very hot > > topic these days. > > Yes, for very complex parts that would otherwise have to be made in > pieces then somehow assempled.
Exactly. Also, the other option that 3D printing opens up is more shape optimized parts. These things are optimized so that "useless" mass is simply gone from the design. They tend to look "organic" rather than "machined" due to their complex shapes. I've heard this called "light-weighting" parts from management types. Jeff -- All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone. These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends, employer, or any organization that I am a member of.