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Why are people buying old Picstart Programmers?

Started by Unknown June 2, 2017
On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Jun 2017 12:43:08 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
hondgm@yahoo.com wrote in
<bcbb8123-ab44-40a3-b926-0c459bcbc2ff@googlegroups.com>:

>I'm always up for learning something useful, but so far you've only preache= >d to me that I should build my own programmer instead of buying one, or som= >ething along those lines.
You know, YOU ask a question, one that shows you did not even do basic research into the subject. if any of you humbug was true you would KNOW how to get and what to get for programmer, and how to make your own. Not knowing how the programmer and programming protocol works means you do not know how to handle the related pins in the design. (In case of in circuit programming it puts restrictions on the design), You are just here to babble about something that you clearly are too <expletive> to even google for for a few minutes, and at the same time saying you need so much to save time... Go buy the f*cking thing from Microchip if you are that much in a hurry and don't bother people who took the time and trouble to provide an alternative and wrote the soft for that. End of discussion as far as i am concerned, find an other victim. Waste of time you are.
On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 3:03:40 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
> On 6/2/2017 8:49 AM, hondgm@.com wrote: > > I was perusing eBay recently and noticed these old Picstart Programmers > > going for about $50. Why???!! With an RS232 port and I'm sure limited > > capability, the only theory I have is as collector's items. > > How much of your *time* would $50 buy? > > Or, more generously, how much of your time would you SPEND $50 to *save*? > > Cables are reasonably mindless undertakings. Why would anyone *buy* a > cable when they could MAKE one for far less money? >
Just so you know, the item I'm referring to isn't a cable. It's more complex than just a cable.
On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 3:43:11 PM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Jun 2017 12:43:08 -0700 (PDT)) it happened > hondgm@.com wrote in > <bcbb8123-ab44-40a3-b926-0c459bcbc2ff@googlegroups.com>: >
> You know, YOU ask a question, one that shows you did not even do basic >research into the subject.
I started writing code for and programming PICs for 20 years bud, the CERDIP windowed type and I had a UV eraser. I'm sure you've been doing it longer, but I'm just saying I didn't start yesterday.
> if any of you humbug was true you would KNOW how to get and what to get for >programmer, and how to make your own.
What do you mean "what to get for programmer"? You think I was asking what I should buy for a programmer? That's not what I was asking. And like I said, it's my choice to not make my own programmer. I got better things to do than to reinvent a perfectly good wheel.
> Not knowing how the programmer and programming protocol works means you do not >know how > to handle the related pins in the design. (In case of in circuit programming >it puts restrictions on the design),
Hmmm, funny I've been able to get these things to work at all. How on earth did any of the dozens of circuits I put together ever work?? What you're saying is like saying "you have to understand USB protocol to plug a thumb drive in".
> You are just here to babble about something that you clearly are too <expletive> to even google for for a few minutes, > and at the same time saying you need so much to save time...
Do you even know what the original question was? I'll repeat it for you: I asked why anyone is buying old obsolete PIC programmers for as much as new ones. How does any of what you're saying pertain to this???
> Go buy the f*cking thing from Microchip if you are that much in a hurry > and don't bother people who took the time and trouble to provide an alternative and wrote the soft for that. > End of discussion as far as i am concerned, find an other victim.
I'm not buying anything. Again, you obviously didn't read my original post. It had nothing to do with me personally buying anything!!!
> Waste of time you are.
That's ok. The feeling is mutual.
On 6/2/2017 6:17 PM, hondgm@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 3:03:40 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote: >> On 6/2/2017 8:49 AM, hondgm@.com wrote: >>> I was perusing eBay recently and noticed these old Picstart Programmers >>> going for about $50. Why???!! With an RS232 port and I'm sure limited >>> capability, the only theory I have is as collector's items. >> >> How much of your *time* would $50 buy? >> >> Or, more generously, how much of your time would you SPEND $50 to *save*? >> >> Cables are reasonably mindless undertakings. Why would anyone *buy* a >> cable when they could MAKE one for far less money? > > Just so you know, the item I'm referring to isn't a cable. It's more complex than just a cable.
Doesn't matter. I can hack together a cable, circuit board, FPGA, etc. to tackle a problem I'm faced with. But, if I can *buy* a solution -- esp for very few dollars (which is where "50" fits on the scale) -- then its almost always a smarter way to use my time!
On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 9:47:11 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:

> > But, if I can *buy* a solution -- esp for very few dollars (which is where "50" > fits on the scale) -- then its almost always a smarter way to use my time!
THANK YOU. Now, will someone please try to explain that to Jan. Or, maybe don't as I have a feeling it's a waste of time.
On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 12:43:08 -0700 (PDT), hondgm@yahoo.com wrote:


>> >Ummmm, what? I don't know how we even got off on this tangent. >> >> Well that is your limitation :-) >> >I guess. What a condescending bunch.
Not "bunch", just Panteltje who exists to start flame fests. Life here will be much more pleasant once you put him in your killfile so you won't have to see any of his spew? As to your original question, could it be that the gadget in question programs early PICs that more modern ones don't? Or as my Mom, the antique dealer used to say "Never throw away anything. Someone somewhere will buy it". She was absolutely correct. John
> >> >I know how to program. The problem is getting the machine code into the PIC. >> >> So then you do NOT know how to program, do not know the hardware, cannot >design the hardware. > >If you're talking about designing a PIC programmer, yes, I do not care. Sometimes I reinvent the wheel, but in this case there's no value for me to do so. A micro programmer is a tool. In the same way I don't make my own screwdrivers and wrenches, I don't care much to make my own programmer because it's a waste of time. I'd rather design the product that contains the micro, that needs programming. > >If you're talking about designing a circuit with a ucontroller, yes I can do that. There's industrial products out there with PICs that I was the primary designer on. I did the circuit design and firmware, and customers purchased them. In fact there's an airport somewhere in eastern Europe with our equipment on their radar. You can say any smart-ass thing you want but like I said I got nothing to prove. > > >> period. >> I showed you how I did that. >> Don't want to learn fine with me. > >I'm always up for learning something useful, but so far you've only preached to me that I should build my own programmer instead of buying one, or something along those lines.
John DeArmond http://www.neon-john.com http://www.tnduction.com Tellico Plains, Occupied TN See website for email address
On 6/3/2017 3:56 AM, hondgm@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 9:47:11 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote: > >> >> But, if I can *buy* a solution -- esp for very few dollars (which is where >> "50" fits on the scale) -- then its almost always a smarter way to use my >> time! > > THANK YOU. Now, will someone please try to explain that to Jan. Or, maybe > don't as I have a feeling it's a waste of time.
People have their own motivations behind *their* decisions. I routinely repair LCD monitors. If you look at the *time* required of me to do so, it's silly -- I should spend that hour as billable time and use the monies received to *buy* a new monitor! But, it's a no-brainer activity, for me, and justifies itself as: - diverting scrap from landfills - "simple" problem solving (like putting together a jigsaw puzzle -- no effort required there!) Likewise, doing periodic maintenance on the cars. At $90/hour for the dealer's time, its cheaper to let *him* do everything! OTOH, if I have to put in an hour of my time to drive to/from the dealership and have to sit in a waiting room while he does the work, then I've not saved any (billable) time. And, if I put *my* head under the hood, *I* can see what's really happening, there, instead of trusting to a grease monkey to spot issues before they become "problems".
> > But, if I can *buy* a solution -- esp for very few dollars (which is where "50" > > fits on the scale) -- then its almost always a smarter way to use my time! > > THANK YOU. Now, will someone please try to explain that to Jan. Or, maybe don't as I have a feeling it's a waste of time.
It is a waste of time. The guy has some pretty obvious issues.
On 03/06/2017 03:10, hondgm@yahoo.com wrote:
> I could for example buy a PICkit for $50 and be done with it.
I think you would have to buy 2 or 3 of them, so that you can keep working when the first one dies. I find that PICKit3s seem to kill themselves from time to time, I suspect due to some design flaw. I don't think it is ESD, as the circuit that I am programming has never died but multiple PICkits have. No, it is not that the internal PIC has lost its program, although that is also reported to be common - mine still get recognised by the PC and produce waveforms at the programming terminals, just the MCLR voltage is wrong iirc and it reports no target device connected. At one stage I started trying to fault-find one of the PICKIT3s - but I didn't have the time as I was supposed to be working on firmware for someone. Anyway I have a collection of dead PICKit3s to repair one day. No, they are not still covered by http://www.microchip.com/cisar/Home.aspx they want $25 (plus postage + hasle + waiting) to fix them, so at this time buying more new ones from the distributor was a better option.
On 6/2/2017 8:49 AM, hondgm@yahoo.com wrote:
> I was perusing eBay recently and noticed these old Picstart Programmers going for about $50. Why???!! With an RS232 port and I'm sure limited capability, the only theory I have is as collector's items. >
Because they just work. A better question might be, "why would anybody pay $50?" )-: I'd take $50 for one of mine in a flash.