Forever Power (almost)

Started by May 16, 2017
```This is just a stupid idea that I had, which will acomplish nothing,
other than see how long it lasts.

I dont know how much a standard 12V 5 amp battery charger requires from
the 120Vac power line, but I read it was around 150 watts.

So, lets say I connect a 200W inverter to a car battery. Then plug into
that inverter, a 12V 5A battery charger, and connect the leads from that
charger to the battery that is powering the inverter.

So, it's an endless loop, the power being drained from the battery is
being recharged by itself thru an inverter and battery charger.

How long would this actually work? I know there is going to be some loss
due to heat in the inverter and the charger too, so this really would
not last forever, but just how long would it last????

```
```On 5/16/2017 1:11 AM, oldschool@tubes.com wrote:
> This is just a stupid idea that I had, which will acomplish nothing,
> other than see how long it lasts.
>
> I dont know how much a standard 12V 5 amp battery charger requires from
> the 120Vac power line, but I read it was around 150 watts.
>
> So, lets say I connect a 200W inverter to a car battery. Then plug into
> that inverter, a 12V 5A battery charger, and connect the leads from that
> charger to the battery that is powering the inverter.
>
> So, it's an endless loop, the power being drained from the battery is
> being recharged by itself thru an inverter and battery charger.
>
> How long would this actually work? I know there is going to be some loss
> due to heat in the inverter and the charger too, so this really would
> not last forever, but just how long would it last????
>
free energy
zero-point energy

You'll find a zillion discussions of this nature.
It's the sum of the losses in the system.
It's a complex calculation, but you can measure it easily.
Build it.
Disconnect both the inverter and the charger from the positive
battery terminal.  Insert an ammeter.  Measure the net amps flowing out
of the battery.
Calculate the hours from the amp-hour battery capacity and the
Sure, the amps will drop over time, but you'll get in the ballpark
with a simple calculation.
```
```On 16-May-17 5:24 PM, mike wrote:
> On 5/16/2017 1:11 AM, oldschool@tubes.com wrote:
>> This is just a stupid idea that I had, which will acomplish nothing,
>> other than see how long it lasts.
>>
>> I dont know how much a standard 12V 5 amp battery charger requires from
>> the 120Vac power line, but I read it was around 150 watts.
>>
>> So, lets say I connect a 200W inverter to a car battery. Then plug into
>> that inverter, a 12V 5A battery charger, and connect the leads from that
>> charger to the battery that is powering the inverter.
>>
>> So, it's an endless loop, the power being drained from the battery is
>> being recharged by itself thru an inverter and battery charger.
>>
>> How long would this actually work? I know there is going to be some loss
>> due to heat in the inverter and the charger too, so this really would
>> not last forever, but just how long would it last????
>>
> free energy
> zero-point energy
>
> You'll find a zillion discussions of this nature.
> It's the sum of the losses in the system.
> It's a complex calculation, but you can measure it easily.
> Build it.
> Disconnect both the inverter and the charger from the positive
> battery terminal.  Insert an ammeter.  Measure the net amps flowing out
> of the battery.
> Calculate the hours from the amp-hour battery capacity and the
> Sure, the amps will drop over time, but you'll get in the ballpark
> with a simple calculation.

I wonder if the OP thinks the 200W inverter will put out 200W when the
```
```On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:11:37 -0400, oldschool@tubes.com wrote:

>This is just a stupid idea that I had, which will acomplish nothing,
>other than see how long it lasts.
>
>I dont know how much a standard 12V 5 amp battery charger requires from
>the 120Vac power line, but I read it was around 150 watts.
>
>So, lets say I connect a 200W inverter to a car battery. Then plug into
>that inverter, a 12V 5A battery charger, and connect the leads from that
>charger to the battery that is powering the inverter.
>
>So, it's an endless loop, the power being drained from the battery is
>being recharged by itself thru an inverter and battery charger.
>
>How long would this actually work? I know there is going to be some loss
>due to heat in the inverter and the charger too, so this really would
>not last forever, but just how long would it last????

I invented the motor-generator perpetual motion machine when I was 7
years old. An older guy explained why it wouldn't work; I think he was
9.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

```
```On Tuesday, 16 May 2017 15:06:27 UTC+1, John Larkin  wrote:
> On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:11:37 -0400, oldschool@tubes.com wrote:

> >This is just a stupid idea that I had, which will acomplish nothing,
> >other than see how long it lasts.
> >
> >I dont know how much a standard 12V 5 amp battery charger requires from
> >the 120Vac power line, but I read it was around 150 watts.
> >
> >So, lets say I connect a 200W inverter to a car battery. Then plug into
> >that inverter, a 12V 5A battery charger, and connect the leads from that
> >charger to the battery that is powering the inverter.
> >
> >So, it's an endless loop, the power being drained from the battery is
> >being recharged by itself thru an inverter and battery charger.
> >
> >How long would this actually work? I know there is going to be some loss
> >due to heat in the inverter and the charger too, so this really would
> >not last forever, but just how long would it last????
>
> I invented the motor-generator perpetual motion machine when I was 7
> years old. An older guy explained why it wouldn't work; I think he was
> 9.

Heh. Even if it could be got to work you couldn't extract any energy or it would stop.

NT
```
```On 5/16/2017 10:10 AM, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, 16 May 2017 15:06:27 UTC+1, John Larkin  wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:11:37 -0400, oldschool@tubes.com wrote:
>
>>> This is just a stupid idea that I had, which will acomplish nothing,
>>> other than see how long it lasts.
>>>
>>> I dont know how much a standard 12V 5 amp battery charger requires from
>>> the 120Vac power line, but I read it was around 150 watts.
>>>
>>> So, lets say I connect a 200W inverter to a car battery. Then plug into
>>> that inverter, a 12V 5A battery charger, and connect the leads from that
>>> charger to the battery that is powering the inverter.
>>>
>>> So, it's an endless loop, the power being drained from the battery is
>>> being recharged by itself thru an inverter and battery charger.
>>>
>>> How long would this actually work? I know there is going to be some loss
>>> due to heat in the inverter and the charger too, so this really would
>>> not last forever, but just how long would it last????
>>
>> I invented the motor-generator perpetual motion machine when I was 7
>> years old. An older guy explained why it wouldn't work; I think he was
>> 9.
>
> Heh. Even if it could be got to work you couldn't extract any energy or it would stop.

Energy can be extracted as long as it is less than a quantum.  Then the
net balance of the remainder doesn't change.  Take all the fractions of
quantum you have and add them up and you will have a bunch of free energy!

--

Rick C
```
```On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:11:37 -0400, oldschool wrote:

> This is just a stupid idea that I had, which will acomplish nothing,
> other than see how long it lasts.
>
> I dont know how much a standard 12V 5 amp battery charger requires from
> the 120Vac power line, but I read it was around 150 watts.
>
> So, lets say I connect a 200W inverter to a car battery. Then plug into
> that inverter, a 12V 5A battery charger, and connect the leads from that
> charger to the battery that is powering the inverter.
>
> So, it's an endless loop, the power being drained from the battery is
> being recharged by itself thru an inverter and battery charger.
>
> How long would this actually work? I know there is going to be some loss
> due to heat in the inverter and the charger too, so this really would
> not last forever, but just how long would it last????

It's just a complicated way of turning useful energy into heat.  You may
as well connect some car light bulbs to the battery -- that'll give you
heat and light, which on a winter's night may be welcome.

"Plug the power strip into the power strip" perpetual motion machines
don't work any better than any other ones.

--
www.wescottdesign.com
```
```On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 10:06:27 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:11:37 -0400, oldschool@tubes.com wrote:
>
> >This is just a stupid idea that I had, which will acomplish nothing,
> >other than see how long it lasts.
> >
> >I dont know how much a standard 12V 5 amp battery charger requires from
> >the 120Vac power line, but I read it was around 150 watts.
> >
> >So, lets say I connect a 200W inverter to a car battery. Then plug into
> >that inverter, a 12V 5A battery charger, and connect the leads from that
> >charger to the battery that is powering the inverter.
> >
> >So, it's an endless loop, the power being drained from the battery is
> >being recharged by itself thru an inverter and battery charger.
> >
> >How long would this actually work? I know there is going to be some loss
> >due to heat in the inverter and the charger too, so this really would
> >not last forever, but just how long would it last????
>
> I invented the motor-generator perpetual motion machine when I was 7
> years old. An older guy explained why it wouldn't work; I think he was
> 9.
Grin, you had smart friends.  My son (16 yo) is still hoping that this
conservation of energy theory will be shown wrong.

George H.
>
>
> --
>
> John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
>
> lunatic fringe electronics

```
```On Tue, 16 May 2017 08:48:52 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 10:06:27 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:11:37 -0400, oldschool@tubes.com wrote:
>>
>> >This is just a stupid idea that I had, which will acomplish nothing,
>> >other than see how long it lasts.
>> >
>> >I dont know how much a standard 12V 5 amp battery charger requires from
>> >the 120Vac power line, but I read it was around 150 watts.
>> >
>> >So, lets say I connect a 200W inverter to a car battery. Then plug into
>> >that inverter, a 12V 5A battery charger, and connect the leads from that
>> >charger to the battery that is powering the inverter.
>> >
>> >So, it's an endless loop, the power being drained from the battery is
>> >being recharged by itself thru an inverter and battery charger.
>> >
>> >How long would this actually work? I know there is going to be some loss
>> >due to heat in the inverter and the charger too, so this really would
>> >not last forever, but just how long would it last????
>>
>> I invented the motor-generator perpetual motion machine when I was 7
>> years old. An older guy explained why it wouldn't work; I think he was
>> 9.
>Grin, you had smart friends.  My son (16 yo) is still hoping that this
>conservation of energy theory will be shown wrong.
>
>George H.

Another time, when I was a little older, I said that I wanted a pair
of binoculars with 1x mag, but that made things brighter, for use at
night. A slightly older guy immediately told me that would violate
thermodynamics and conservation of energy.

Good thing I'm an engineer. I'd be a terrible physicist.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

```
```On Tuesday, 16 May 2017 17:01:53 UTC+1, John Larkin  wrote:
> On Tue, 16 May 2017 08:48:52 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
> <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 10:06:27 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

> >> I invented the motor-generator perpetual motion machine when I was 7
> >> years old. An older guy explained why it wouldn't work; I think he was
> >> 9.
> >Grin, you had smart friends.  My son (16 yo) is still hoping that this
> >conservation of energy theory will be shown wrong.
> >
> >George H.
>
> Another time, when I was a little older, I said that I wanted a pair
> of binoculars with 1x mag, but that made things brighter, for use at
> night. A slightly older guy immediately told me that would violate
> thermodynamics and conservation of energy.
>
> Good thing I'm an engineer. I'd be a terrible physicist.

All that needs is a larger aperture.

NT
```