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Ultra-low power switching boost converter - in a DIP

Started by Peabody August 21, 2016
On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 1:47:00 PM UTC-4, Peabody wrote:
> George Herold says... > > > On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 6:02:31 PM UTC-4, Phil > > Hobbs wrote: > > >> Various outfits sell SMT breakout boards fairly cheap. > >> I like the Bellin Dynamic Systems ones, available from > >> Newark. You might have to use paste and a heat gun to > >> get it onto the breakout, but after that it's plain > >> sailing. > > > +1 that was my suggestion. Lots on DK too. > > > http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/prototyping-pro > > ducts/adapter-breako ut-boards/2360393 > > The problem with all those that I've found so far is that > they don't provide for the thermal/ground pad underneath the > center of the chip. But I'm not sure I really need that. > The data sheet is pretty clear in saying that that pad > "must" be soldered to the PC board, but if I'm only looking > at a few milliamps of output current, I'm not sure that's > really necessary. > > I've been watching videos on Youtube of guys using soldering > paste and heat guns to do actual reflow work. But I still > wonder about the themal pad underneath - I guess it would > reflow there in a legit oven, but not sure about a heat gun. > > Jason Betts says mount it upside down. and solder thin wires > to the pins, and a thicker wire across the thermal pad. I'm > liking that idea more and more, subject to it broadcasting > too much noise.
Yeah I've done the upside down "trick" to the thermal pad with some copper tape. (onto copper clad.) I've also made a big hole in the pcb and soldered to the pad from the bottom. (with an iron)... hole big enough for a solder iron tip to fit through. George H.
> > Anyway, thank very much for the replies and suggestions.
Peabody <waybackNO584SPAM44@yahoo.com> writes:

> Jasen Betts says... > > > upside down. put a 1mm wire across the centre pad and > > solder the ends down, use finer wires for the other > > pads. > > I would never have thought of that, I'm ashamed to say. > Thanks very much.
Yes it should be doable though not much fun. Similar to one of my masterpieces <http://ee.devereux.me.uk/ADS7947.jpg> -- John Devereux
On 8/22/2016 1:28 PM, Peabody wrote:
> George Herold says... > > > On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 6:02:31 PM UTC-4, Phil > > Hobbs wrote: > > >> Various outfits sell SMT breakout boards fairly cheap. > >> I like the Bellin Dynamic Systems ones, available from > >> Newark. You might have to use paste and a heat gun to > >> get it onto the breakout, but after that it's plain > >> sailing. > > > +1 that was my suggestion. Lots on DK too. > > > http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/prototyping-pro > > ducts/adapter-breako ut-boards/2360393 > > The problem with all those that I've found so far is that > they don't provide for the thermal/ground pad underneath the > center of the chip. But I'm not sure I really need that. > The data sheet is pretty clear in saying that that pad > "must" be soldered to the PC board, but if I'm only looking > at a few milliamps of output current, I'm not sure that's > really necessary. > > I've been watching videos on Youtube of guys using soldering > paste and heat guns to do actual reflow work. But I still > wonder about the themal pad underneath - I guess it would > reflow there in a legit oven, but not sure about a heat gun. > > Jason Betts says mount it upside down. and solder thin wires > to the pins, and a thicker wire across the thermal pad. I'm > liking that idea more and more, subject to it broadcasting > too much noise. > > Anyway, thank very much for the replies and suggestions.
I don't know about this chip, but some use the thermal pad as an electrical connection. I've seen one that uses it as the *only* ground pin. -- Rick C
On 8/22/2016 10:53 AM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 18:02:23 -0400, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> On 08/21/2016 12:13 PM, Peabody wrote: >>> For a hobby project, I've found the perfect part for converting battery >>> power to a very low current (2 ma at most) 28V power supply. And that is >>> the Linear Technologies LT8410-1 "Ultralow Power Boost Converter". >>> >>> The problem is that the only package available is a tiny surface mount >>> chip that's 2 x 2 millimeters, which effectively makes it impossible to >>> deal with using a soldering iron. >>> >>> Does anyone know of a solution that would let me use this chip - a >>> socket, or some way to solder it? Or, does anyone know of another part >>> that performs similarly but has a more hobby-friendly package option? >>> >>> Thanks for any suggestions. >>> >> >> Various outfits sell SMT breakout boards fairly cheap. I like the >> Bellin Dynamic Systems ones, available from Newark. You might have to >> use paste and a heat gun to get it onto the breakout, but after that >> it's plain sailing. >> >> Cheers >> >> Phil Hobbs > > Do they make QFN adapters? There's a post-it on my door that says NO > QFNS. Everybody hates them.
Yeah, those who aren't very good at manufacturing don't like them. That's why I'd never consider building my own assembly line. Contract manufacturers don't seem to have any problem with them... or the big builders who have to save every penny they can, like in cell phones, etc. QFNs are very common and very useful. -- Rick C
On 23/08/16 00:52, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 10:29:15 +1000, Clifford Heath > <no.spam@please.net> wrote: > >> On 22/08/16 03:04, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 11:13:07 -0500, Peabody >>> <waybackNO584SPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> For a hobby project, I've found the perfect part for converting battery >>>> power to a very low current (2 ma at most) 28V power supply. And that is >>>> the Linear Technologies LT8410-1 "Ultralow Power Boost Converter". >>>> >>>> The problem is that the only package available is a tiny surface mount >>>> chip that's 2 x 2 millimeters, which effectively makes it impossible to >>>> deal with using a soldering iron. >>>> >>>> Does anyone know of a solution that would let me use this chip - a >>>> socket, or some way to solder it? Or, does anyone know of another part >>>> that performs similarly but has a more hobby-friendly package option? >>>> >>>> Thanks for any suggestions. >>> >>> LTC3803 is a nice little boost converter in a leaded package. Supply >>> current is a little higher, and it needs an external fet, 2N7002 >>> maybe. >> >> Data sheet says it's optimized for high input voltages. >> What low voltages have you used it for, and how did it cope? >> >> Clifford Heath. > > 24 to 1400. Worked great.
That's your output voltage. What's the lowest input voltage you've used it with?
> OP didn't say what his battery voltage is.
True, but we can assume less than 24 is likely.
"rickman" <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:npg0f3$7s1$6@dont-email.me...
>> Do they make QFN adapters? There's a post-it on my door that says NO >> QFNS. Everybody hates them. > > Yeah, those who aren't very good at manufacturing don't like them. That's > why I'd never consider building my own assembly line. Contract > manufacturers don't seem to have any problem with them... or the big > builders who have to save every penny they can, like in cell phones, etc. > QFNs are very common and very useful.
I love QFNs! Good thermal performance, smaller than QFP and more reliable, and impossible to short between pins (which was interesting as I had some rework recently where I had to add a short between pins..). What I don't like is the MCUs that invariably have pins coming out every which way. MSP430s do it. STM32s do it. The hell is up with that? Why would 32 bits of bus end up jumled!? It literally takes as much PCB space to rout such a QFN, as the QFP takes up! (The QFP would still be worse, though routing underneath is easier at least, not needing to allow for a ground pad.) Tim -- Seven Transistor Labs, LLC Electrical Engineering Consultation and Contract Design Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com
On Tuesday, 23 August 2016 13:46:48 UTC+1, Tim Williams  wrote:

> I love QFNs! Good thermal performance, smaller than QFP and more reliable, > and impossible to short between pins (which was interesting as I had some > rework recently where I had to add a short between pins..).
Also, the RF emissions should be lower as there should be less ground bounce. John
On 8/23/2016 8:46 AM, Tim Williams wrote:
> "rickman" <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:npg0f3$7s1$6@dont-email.me... >>> Do they make QFN adapters? There's a post-it on my door that says NO >>> QFNS. Everybody hates them. >> >> Yeah, those who aren't very good at manufacturing don't like them. >> That's why I'd never consider building my own assembly line. Contract >> manufacturers don't seem to have any problem with them... or the big >> builders who have to save every penny they can, like in cell phones, >> etc. QFNs are very common and very useful. > > I love QFNs! Good thermal performance, smaller than QFP and more > reliable, and impossible to short between pins (which was interesting as > I had some rework recently where I had to add a short between pins..).
For the most part, QFNs are just QFP packages with the leads cut off. I suppose there are some smaller pin count packages which have not corresponding QFPs and they can be uniquely small. But a 100 pin QFN has the same body size as a 100 pin QFP. I have seen QFNs with multiple rows of pads, but technically, I believe they become LGAs, no?
> What I don't like is the MCUs that invariably have pins coming out every > which way. MSP430s do it. STM32s do it. The hell is up with that? Why > would 32 bits of bus end up jumled!? It literally takes as much PCB > space to rout such a QFN, as the QFP takes up! (The QFP would still be > worse, though routing underneath is easier at least, not needing to > allow for a ground pad.)
Not sure what you mean, "every which way". Are you talking about pads on all surfaces like a porcupine? The QFN parts I have seen were still all planer. -- Rick C
Den tirsdag den 23. august 2016 kl. 20.47.52 UTC+2 skrev rickman:
> On 8/23/2016 8:46 AM, Tim Williams wrote: > > "rickman" <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:npg0f3$7s1$6@dont-email.me... > >>> Do they make QFN adapters? There's a post-it on my door that says NO > >>> QFNS. Everybody hates them. > >> > >> Yeah, those who aren't very good at manufacturing don't like them. > >> That's why I'd never consider building my own assembly line. Contract > >> manufacturers don't seem to have any problem with them... or the big > >> builders who have to save every penny they can, like in cell phones, > >> etc. QFNs are very common and very useful. > > > > I love QFNs! Good thermal performance, smaller than QFP and more > > reliable, and impossible to short between pins (which was interesting as > > I had some rework recently where I had to add a short between pins..). > > For the most part, QFNs are just QFP packages with the leads cut off. I > suppose there are some smaller pin count packages which have not > corresponding QFPs and they can be uniquely small. But a 100 pin QFN > has the same body size as a 100 pin QFP. I have seen QFNs with multiple > rows of pads, but technically, I believe they become LGAs, no? > > > > What I don't like is the MCUs that invariably have pins coming out every > > which way. MSP430s do it. STM32s do it. The hell is up with that? Why > > would 32 bits of bus end up jumled!? It literally takes as much PCB > > space to rout such a QFN, as the QFP takes up! (The QFP would still be > > worse, though routing underneath is easier at least, not needing to > > allow for a ground pad.) > > Not sure what you mean, "every which way". Are you talking about pads > on all surfaces like a porcupine? The QFN parts I have seen were still > all planer. >
I suspect he means that pins that would naturally be grouped together, like a data bus are spread out in a seemly random fashion, so to route a memory bus you need to get to all four sides of the chip and swap the order on the way -Lasse
On 8/23/2016 3:36 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> Den tirsdag den 23. august 2016 kl. 20.47.52 UTC+2 skrev rickman: >> On 8/23/2016 8:46 AM, Tim Williams wrote: >>> "rickman" <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:npg0f3$7s1$6@dont-email.me... >>>>> Do they make QFN adapters? There's a post-it on my door that says NO >>>>> QFNS. Everybody hates them. >>>> >>>> Yeah, those who aren't very good at manufacturing don't like them. >>>> That's why I'd never consider building my own assembly line. Contract >>>> manufacturers don't seem to have any problem with them... or the big >>>> builders who have to save every penny they can, like in cell phones, >>>> etc. QFNs are very common and very useful. >>> >>> I love QFNs! Good thermal performance, smaller than QFP and more >>> reliable, and impossible to short between pins (which was interesting as >>> I had some rework recently where I had to add a short between pins..). >> >> For the most part, QFNs are just QFP packages with the leads cut off. I >> suppose there are some smaller pin count packages which have not >> corresponding QFPs and they can be uniquely small. But a 100 pin QFN >> has the same body size as a 100 pin QFP. I have seen QFNs with multiple >> rows of pads, but technically, I believe they become LGAs, no? >> >> >>> What I don't like is the MCUs that invariably have pins coming out every >>> which way. MSP430s do it. STM32s do it. The hell is up with that? Why >>> would 32 bits of bus end up jumled!? It literally takes as much PCB >>> space to rout such a QFN, as the QFP takes up! (The QFP would still be >>> worse, though routing underneath is easier at least, not needing to >>> allow for a ground pad.) >> >> Not sure what you mean, "every which way". Are you talking about pads >> on all surfaces like a porcupine? The QFN parts I have seen were still >> all planer. >> > > I suspect he means that pins that would naturally be grouped together, like > a data bus are spread out in a seemly random fashion, so to route a memory > bus you need to get to all four sides of the chip and swap the order on the way
Why would that be any different from any other package? The order of pins on the package is usually the same or close to the order of pins on the die. -- Rick C