Forums

Zener diode below-threshold reverse current

Started by Tim Wescott June 23, 2016
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 20:18:00 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote:

>On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:59:39 -0500, John Fields ><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: > >>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 22:20:27 -0700, John Larkin >><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >> >> >>>What do you do? >> >>Whatever I want to. >> >Whine and snipe.
--- Wow! You sound Just like Larkin! Johy Fields
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 20:18:51 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 22:27:13 -0500, John Fields ><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: > >>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 19:56:59 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >> >>>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 14:49:40 -0500, John Fields >>><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 17:58:29 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 16:01:50 -0500, John Fields >>>>><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 22:49:35 -0400, krw <krw@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 21:07:54 -0500, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> >>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:20:27 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:42:40 -0500, Tim Wescott >>>>>>>>> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I know the theory, more or less. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>In practice, what's the reverse current through a zener diode at levels >>>>>>>>>>well below the breakdown voltage? I've got a circuit where I'm feeding >>>>>>>>>>a 12V linear regulator with a 25V line. It would be handy to put a >>>>>>>>>>zener diode in there so that when the 25V line drops to 4V the current >>>>>>>>>>into the regulator drops to tens of microamps. I'm wondering if a >>>>>>>>>>series zener will do it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Clear as mud ;-) Post a schematic of what you mean... 25V -> 4V ?? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sorry. When the circuit is nominally on I want to make 12V from the 25V >>>>>>>>rail with a linear regulator. When the circuit is nominally off the 25V >>>>>>>>rail is at 4V, and I would like to effectively shut off the 12V line >>>>>>>>entirely. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>A 6.8V zener would make for around 18V at the input to the regulator, so >>>>>>>>the "on" part works fine. I'm just wondering if, with 4V on one side and >>>>>>>>a regulator input on the other, if the zener will flow some predictably >>>>>>>>low current. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>6.8V zeners suck. I'd just use an enable pin on the regulator. >>>>>> >>>>>>And if the regulator of choice has no ENABLE pin, then what? >>>>> >>>>>Then choose another, asshole. >>>> >>>>--- >>>>That's no help, since hostility leads, reductio ad absurdum, to war. >>>> >>>>Do you want to declare war with your limited resources? >>>>--- >>>> >>>>>When you want to discuss electronics, let us all know. >>>> >>>>--- >>>>I'm always up for that, but your invitation is preumptuous, as if you >>>>were running the game. >>>> >>>It's always been clear that you aren't here to discuss electronics >>>either. >> >>--- >>Not at all true - check my posting record - from someone who thinks >>he's running the game, but I don't mind (actually, I rather relish) an >>occasional sidestep into the dark side just to bring you phonies to >>your knees. > >Nonsense. You come here to whine and snipe. Nothing more.
--- John Larkin, is that you in disguise???
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 01:13:38 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 20:18:00 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote: > >>On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:59:39 -0500, John Fields >><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >> >>>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 22:20:27 -0700, John Larkin >>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>What do you do? >>> >>>Whatever I want to. >>> >>Whine and snipe. > >--- >Wow! > >You sound Just like Larkin! >
Why thank you, li'l Johnny. That's the nicest thing you've ever said. Now, back to your whining.
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 01:17:08 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 20:18:51 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote: > >>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 22:27:13 -0500, John Fields >><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >> >>>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 19:56:59 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>> >>>>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 14:49:40 -0500, John Fields >>>><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 17:58:29 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 16:01:50 -0500, John Fields >>>>>><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 22:49:35 -0400, krw <krw@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 21:07:54 -0500, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> >>>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:20:27 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:42:40 -0500, Tim Wescott >>>>>>>>>> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>I know the theory, more or less. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>In practice, what's the reverse current through a zener diode at levels >>>>>>>>>>>well below the breakdown voltage? I've got a circuit where I'm feeding >>>>>>>>>>>a 12V linear regulator with a 25V line. It would be handy to put a >>>>>>>>>>>zener diode in there so that when the 25V line drops to 4V the current >>>>>>>>>>>into the regulator drops to tens of microamps. I'm wondering if a >>>>>>>>>>>series zener will do it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Clear as mud ;-) Post a schematic of what you mean... 25V -> 4V ?? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Sorry. When the circuit is nominally on I want to make 12V from the 25V >>>>>>>>>rail with a linear regulator. When the circuit is nominally off the 25V >>>>>>>>>rail is at 4V, and I would like to effectively shut off the 12V line >>>>>>>>>entirely. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>A 6.8V zener would make for around 18V at the input to the regulator, so >>>>>>>>>the "on" part works fine. I'm just wondering if, with 4V on one side and >>>>>>>>>a regulator input on the other, if the zener will flow some predictably >>>>>>>>>low current. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>6.8V zeners suck. I'd just use an enable pin on the regulator. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>And if the regulator of choice has no ENABLE pin, then what? >>>>>> >>>>>>Then choose another, asshole. >>>>> >>>>>--- >>>>>That's no help, since hostility leads, reductio ad absurdum, to war. >>>>> >>>>>Do you want to declare war with your limited resources? >>>>>--- >>>>> >>>>>>When you want to discuss electronics, let us all know. >>>>> >>>>>--- >>>>>I'm always up for that, but your invitation is preumptuous, as if you >>>>>were running the game. >>>>> >>>>It's always been clear that you aren't here to discuss electronics >>>>either. >>> >>>--- >>>Not at all true - check my posting record - from someone who thinks >>>he's running the game, but I don't mind (actually, I rather relish) an >>>occasional sidestep into the dark side just to bring you phonies to >>>your knees. >> >>Nonsense. You come here to whine and snipe. Nothing more. > >--- >John Larkin, is that you in disguise???
Whine and snipe. At least you're good at it. Everyone's got to have something.
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 01:04:36 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 18:40:24 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 19:05:14 -0500, John Fields >><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >> >>>On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 17:01:19 -0700, John Larkin >>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:49:53 -0500, John Fields >>>><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 22:20:27 -0700, John Larkin >>>>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 21:34:19 -0500, John Fields >>>>>><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 14:57:59 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 14:49:40 -0500, John Fields >>>>>>>><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 17:58:29 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 16:01:50 -0500, John Fields >>>>>>>>>><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 22:49:35 -0400, krw <krw@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 21:07:54 -0500, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:20:27 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:42:40 -0500, Tim Wescott >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I know the theory, more or less. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>In practice, what's the reverse current through a zener diode at levels >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>well below the breakdown voltage? I've got a circuit where I'm feeding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a 12V linear regulator with a 25V line. It would be handy to put a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>zener diode in there so that when the 25V line drops to 4V the current >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>into the regulator drops to tens of microamps. I'm wondering if a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>series zener will do it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clear as mud ;-) Post a schematic of what you mean... 25V -> 4V ?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Sorry. When the circuit is nominally on I want to make 12V from the 25V >>>>>>>>>>>>>rail with a linear regulator. When the circuit is nominally off the 25V >>>>>>>>>>>>>rail is at 4V, and I would like to effectively shut off the 12V line >>>>>>>>>>>>>entirely. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>A 6.8V zener would make for around 18V at the input to the regulator, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>the "on" part works fine. I'm just wondering if, with 4V on one side and >>>>>>>>>>>>>a regulator input on the other, if the zener will flow some predictably >>>>>>>>>>>>>low current. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>6.8V zeners suck. I'd just use an enable pin on the regulator. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>And if the regulator of choice has no ENABLE pin, then what? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Then choose another, asshole. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>--- >>>>>>>>>That's no help, since hostility leads, reductio ad absurdum, to war. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Do you want to declare war with your limited resources? >>>>>>>>>--- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>When you want to discuss electronics, let us all know. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>--- >>>>>>>>>I'm always up for that, but your invitation is preumptuous, as if you >>>>>>>>>were running the game. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>JF >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>That's silly. I'm running the game. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>--- >>>>>>>Then you create unhappiness because you wallow in it? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>JF >>>>>> >>>>>>I create electronics because people need it. >>>>> >>>>>--- >>>>>Total nonsense. >>>>> >>>>>You don't create anything, you only rearrange (paint by numbers) >>>>>what's already on tap in order to build machines which will do your >>>>>customers' bidding. >>>> >>>>Well, Shakespeare just rearranged letters. We rearrange parts. That's >>>>what electronic design is, selecting and connecting parts. If you >>>>think that's trivial, why do you post to SED? >>>> >>>> >>>>>--- >>>>> >>>>>>We just solved a problem with thrust measurement in a GTF. Things like >>>>>>that are satisfying. >>>>> >>>>>--- >>>>>Indeed. >>>>> >>>>>you managed to sell a painting. >>>> >>>>We did some Fourier analysis and told the user how to filter out test >>>>stand vibration modes. The engine stand is a huge structure that sits >>>>on a gigantic concrete footing. Unfortunately, it's in Florida and >>>>under the footing is mush. >>> >>>--- >>>Fourier discovered the pigment, and all you're doing is using his >>>discovery as one of the numbers in your painting. >> >>It's interesting how you keep referring to electronic design as >>"painting by the numbers." > >--- >Not "electronic design", John, _your_ electronic designs. >---
Take a look at my digital delay generators, and my time stampers, and my laser drivers, and my thermocouple stuff, and tell us how you'd design them.
> >>Well, all we do is buy some parts and connect them, so I guess it is trivial. >>Of course, some people are good at it, and most people aren't, >>so there must be some skill of some sort involved. > >--- >Indeed, but you're no Fourier, and certainly not a Michelangelo.
Well, neither of them were good circuit designers. And they are dead, and I'm not. Electronic design is a strange occupation, just connecting standard parts and typing various kinds of code. You'd think anyone could do it. You don't need a degree or a license. I don't know of any equivalent profession; you need training and licensing to cut hair or sell insurance. The other thing that's interesting about electronics is how ubiquitous it is. People need food and water and housing, but the richest people in the world don't provide those things, they are dropouts who make electronics and code. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 00:37:25 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 17:10:12 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: > >>On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:59:39 -0500, John Fields >><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >> >>>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 22:20:27 -0700, John Larkin >>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>What do you do? >>> >>>Whatever I want to. >>> >>>John Fields >>> >> >>Sounds boring, like playing tennis alone against a wall. We like to >>have potential customers lob problems at us to solve. In that sense >>we're doing what they want us to do. You never know if you're any good >>until you play against a pro. > >--- >Poor sad little man, I can't omagine why you'd say something like that >unless you were trying to pick a fight, which seems to be your raison >d'&#2013265930;tre. > >John Fields
No, my French-name thing is designing electronics. I'm also very interested in the process and culture of electronics, how it gets done, and especially how personality affects design. Didn't you just say that you only come to sed to pick fights? Design something and discuss it; post some circuits. That's a healthier way to live. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 09:14:14 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote:

>On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 01:13:38 -0500, John Fields ><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: > >>On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 20:18:00 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >> >>>On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:59:39 -0500, John Fields >>><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 22:20:27 -0700, John Larkin >>>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>What do you do? >>>> >>>>Whatever I want to. >>>> >>>Whine and snipe. >> >>--- >>Wow! >> >>You sound Just like Larkin! >> >Why thank you, li'l Johnny. That's the nicest thing you've ever said. > >Now, back to your whining.
JF seems to not like people who actually design electronics. That makes sense. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 09:16:08 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote:

>On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 01:17:08 -0500, John Fields ><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: > >>On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 20:18:51 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >> >>>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 22:27:13 -0500, John Fields >>><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 19:56:59 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 14:49:40 -0500, John Fields >>>>><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 17:58:29 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 16:01:50 -0500, John Fields >>>>>>><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 22:49:35 -0400, krw <krw@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 21:07:54 -0500, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> >>>>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:20:27 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:42:40 -0500, Tim Wescott >>>>>>>>>>> <seemywebsite@myfooter.really> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>I know the theory, more or less. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>In practice, what's the reverse current through a zener diode at levels >>>>>>>>>>>>well below the breakdown voltage? I've got a circuit where I'm feeding >>>>>>>>>>>>a 12V linear regulator with a 25V line. It would be handy to put a >>>>>>>>>>>>zener diode in there so that when the 25V line drops to 4V the current >>>>>>>>>>>>into the regulator drops to tens of microamps. I'm wondering if a >>>>>>>>>>>>series zener will do it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Clear as mud ;-) Post a schematic of what you mean... 25V -> 4V ?? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Sorry. When the circuit is nominally on I want to make 12V from the 25V >>>>>>>>>>rail with a linear regulator. When the circuit is nominally off the 25V >>>>>>>>>>rail is at 4V, and I would like to effectively shut off the 12V line >>>>>>>>>>entirely. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>A 6.8V zener would make for around 18V at the input to the regulator, so >>>>>>>>>>the "on" part works fine. I'm just wondering if, with 4V on one side and >>>>>>>>>>a regulator input on the other, if the zener will flow some predictably >>>>>>>>>>low current. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>6.8V zeners suck. I'd just use an enable pin on the regulator. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>And if the regulator of choice has no ENABLE pin, then what? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Then choose another, asshole. >>>>>> >>>>>>--- >>>>>>That's no help, since hostility leads, reductio ad absurdum, to war. >>>>>> >>>>>>Do you want to declare war with your limited resources? >>>>>>--- >>>>>> >>>>>>>When you want to discuss electronics, let us all know. >>>>>> >>>>>>--- >>>>>>I'm always up for that, but your invitation is preumptuous, as if you >>>>>>were running the game. >>>>>> >>>>>It's always been clear that you aren't here to discuss electronics >>>>>either. >>>> >>>>--- >>>>Not at all true - check my posting record - from someone who thinks >>>>he's running the game, but I don't mind (actually, I rather relish) an >>>>occasional sidestep into the dark side just to bring you phonies to >>>>your knees. >>> >>>Nonsense. You come here to whine and snipe. Nothing more. >> >>--- >>John Larkin, is that you in disguise??? > >Whine and snipe. At least you're good at it. Everyone's got to have >something.
--- You seem to be the exception which lays waste to that claim, yes? John Fields
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 09:59:23 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:


>Take a look at my digital delay generators, and my time stampers, and >my laser drivers, and my thermocouple stuff, and tell us how you'd >design them.
--- Why would I even bother to waste my time since even if I did, and I showed you a better way, you'd do your damnedest to justify limping? ---
>>>Well, all we do is buy some parts and connect them, so I guess it is trivial. >>>Of course, some people are good at it, and most people aren't, >>>so there must be some skill of some sort involved. >> >>--- >>Indeed, but you're no Fourier, and certainly not a Michelangelo. > >Well, neither of them were good circuit designers. And they are dead, >and I'm not.
---] True enough, but there wasn't much circuit design - as far as I know - going on back then, so your slur is irrelevant. They're dead, indeed, as you will be, one day, and I doubt seriously whether any of your work will survive for as long as theirs has. ---
>Electronic design is a strange occupation, just connecting standard >parts and typing various kinds of code. You'd think anyone could do >it. You don't need a degree or a license. I don't know of any >equivalent profession; you need training and licensing to cut hair or >sell insurance. The other thing that's interesting about electronics >is how ubiquitous it is. People need food and water and housing, but >the richest people in the world don't provide those things, they are >dropouts who make electronics and code.
--- Your point being??? John Fields
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 10:04:12 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 00:37:25 -0500, John Fields ><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: > >>On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 17:10:12 -0700, John Larkin >><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >> >>>On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:59:39 -0500, John Fields >>><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Wed, 27 Jul 2016 22:20:27 -0700, John Larkin >>>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>What do you do? >>>> >>>>Whatever I want to. >>>> >>>>John Fields >>>> >>> >>>Sounds boring, like playing tennis alone against a wall. We like to >>>have potential customers lob problems at us to solve. In that sense >>>we're doing what they want us to do. You never know if you're any good >>>until you play against a pro. >> >>--- >>Poor sad little man, I can't omagine why you'd say something like that >>unless you were trying to pick a fight, which seems to be your raison >>d'&#2013265930;tre. >> >>John Fields > >No, my French-name thing is designing electronics. I'm also very >interested in the process and culture of electronics, how it gets >done, and especially how personality affects design. > >Didn't you just say that you only come to sed to pick fights?
--- No. What I wrote was: "Poor sad little man, I can't imagine why you'd say something like that unless you were trying to pick a fight, which seems to be your raison d'&#2013265930;tre." Want to try again? ---
>Design something and discuss it; post some circuits. That's a healthier way >to live.
--- What you seem to consider a healthier way of living is pretty much one-sided and seems to come out as: "Provide me with material which I can rail against and use to squash you unless you're willing to spend an inordinate of time explaining my psychoses." I'm usually not interested in traveling that road but, occasionally, I don't mind. John fields