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OT: Science of dropping things

Started by bitrex April 9, 2016
On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 11:48:19 -0700, Bill Martin <wwm@wwmartin.net>
wrote:

>On 04/09/2016 07:57 AM, Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 02:49:03 -0400, bitrex >> <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote: >> >>> I'm fairly clumsy, and I drop things on the floor a lot. >>> >>> What often happens is that I hear something small clatter to the floor, >>> like a screw, or key, or cell phone charger. I then think "Ah, this >>> should be easy to find." >>> >>> Then I end up hunting around on my hands and knees with a flashlight for >>> that screw I heard fall to the floor...and I never find it. You'd think >>> if you heard it hit the ground, it would be easy to find...but dropped >>> things apparently just vanish into another dimension. >>> >>> Is there any science about why things you drop on the floor always end >>> up in the last place you'd look? >> >> I have a magnet on an extendable wand for "sweeping" the floor. I'm >> forever dropping the tiniest of screws :-( >> >> ...Jim Thompson >> >Ummm, maybe a good addition to one of those robo-suckers...set it off & >check in an hour! :-)
I think this is USA-wide, but around here in Arizona, we have highway maintenance trucks which not only sweep but have gigantic magnet systems underneath. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | The touchstone of liberalism is intolerance
On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:10:57 -0400, mixed nuts
<melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> wrote:

>Carpeted areas are for administrative and sales staff and presidents and >stuff.
When I worked in a cube farm, I brought my own (fake) Persian rug and then fashionable bean bag chair. Maintenance complained, so I brought in a vacuum cleaner. Fairly soon, all the engineers installed a carpet in their offices (and were chronically borrowing my vacuum cleaner). After about 2 years, someone decided to carpet the engineering area (the labs remained vinyl flooring). The color and pattern were apparently selected to hide food stains and dropped components. If you dropped something, it was gone. The pile was the perfect size needed to trap small objects, dirt, dust, filth, etc. It was also NOT anti-static and would cause anyone walking into the office to throw a small lightning bolt to the doorknob, desk, file cabinet, equipment rack, etc. Equipment damage increased dramatically. I left after about 6 months of grumbling and sudden prototype failures, so I don't know what happened to the carpet. My guess(tm) is that it got ripped up and replaced with something even more disgusting and destructive. I don't recall how mahogany row was carpeted, but I'm sure it was suitably opulent. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:53:38 -0400, the renowned mixed nuts
<melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> wrote:

> >If you get a broom and a dustpan, and sweep up around the bench, 99 >times out of 100, you'll find the part.
"a part" --sp -- Best regards, Spehro Pefhany Amazon link for AoE 3rd Edition: http://tinyurl.com/ntrpwu8
On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 11:53:18 -0400, the renowned krw <krw@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:22:12 -0500, "Tim Williams" ><tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote: > >>"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message >>news:hccigb9fms4e0atgjv2dotecf7tvkihmvk@4ax.com... >>> Parts are getting smaller a lot faster than we're getting older. 1206 >>> resistors used to seem impossibly small. I was soldering some >>> yesterday and they looked gigantic. Even 0805 looks big. >> >>Pfft, 0603 is average, 0402 and below is where things get tiny. >> >>Not-bragging-bragging about my still young eyes, of course ;-) >> >>> I just got a board with 60 mil high reference designators; they are >>> tiny but beautifully sharp. Yesterday I asked the younger people in >>> production if they would mind my going to 50 mils. They all said no >>> problem, we need magnification to see this stuff already. >> >>Geez, those are bigger than the components. >> >>I've received 25 mil text which was legible, but that's pushing it. I use >>30 (6 line width) for most SMTs. 60 (occasionally more) is reserved only >>for bulky THTs that you're expected to see while plugging things in. >> >>> Our senses are limited in dealing with electronics. We need a lot of >>> fancy and fun instruments. >> >>Wouldn't mind a Mantis like you've got, but a loupe is quite handy for >>inspecting those things my eyes aren't really sharp enough to resolve in the >>first place. >> >I have a Mantis at work, too, but I also have one of these. They're a >great addition and much better than "OptiVisors". > >http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/aven-tools/26221/243-1197-ND/1992723
Do you generally use the lamp? --sp -- Best regards, Spehro Pefhany Amazon link for AoE 3rd Edition: http://tinyurl.com/ntrpwu8
On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:10:57 -0400, mixed nuts
<melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> wrote:

>On 4/10/2016 11:37 AM, krw wrote: >> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:53:38 -0400, mixed nuts >> <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> wrote: >>> On 4/9/2016 2:49 AM, bitrex wrote: >>>> I'm fairly clumsy, and I drop things on the floor a lot. >>>> >>>> What often happens is that I hear something small clatter to the >>>> floor, like a screw, or key, or cell phone charger. I then think >>>> "Ah, this should be easy to find." >>>> >>>> Then I end up hunting around on my hands and knees with a >>>> flashlight for that screw I heard fall to the floor...and I never >>>> find it. You'd think if you heard it hit the ground, it would be >>>> easy to find...but dropped things apparently just vanish into >>>> another dimension. >>>> >>>> Is there any science about why things you drop on the floor >>>> always end up in the last place you'd look? >>> >>> If you get a broom and a dustpan, and sweep up around the bench, >>> 99 times out of 100, you'll find the part. >> >> Doesn't work well on carpeted floors. Carpeting makes things bounce >> a lot farther, too. > >Carpeted areas are for administrative and sales staff and presidents and >stuff.
...and engineering staff, even if they have to lay it over a $1M ESD floor.
On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 18:25:04 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 11:53:18 -0400, the renowned krw <krw@nowhere.com> >wrote: > >>On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:22:12 -0500, "Tim Williams" >><tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote: >> >>>"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message >>>news:hccigb9fms4e0atgjv2dotecf7tvkihmvk@4ax.com... >>>> Parts are getting smaller a lot faster than we're getting older. 1206 >>>> resistors used to seem impossibly small. I was soldering some >>>> yesterday and they looked gigantic. Even 0805 looks big. >>> >>>Pfft, 0603 is average, 0402 and below is where things get tiny. >>> >>>Not-bragging-bragging about my still young eyes, of course ;-) >>> >>>> I just got a board with 60 mil high reference designators; they are >>>> tiny but beautifully sharp. Yesterday I asked the younger people in >>>> production if they would mind my going to 50 mils. They all said no >>>> problem, we need magnification to see this stuff already. >>> >>>Geez, those are bigger than the components. >>> >>>I've received 25 mil text which was legible, but that's pushing it. I use >>>30 (6 line width) for most SMTs. 60 (occasionally more) is reserved only >>>for bulky THTs that you're expected to see while plugging things in. >>> >>>> Our senses are limited in dealing with electronics. We need a lot of >>>> fancy and fun instruments. >>> >>>Wouldn't mind a Mantis like you've got, but a loupe is quite handy for >>>inspecting those things my eyes aren't really sharp enough to resolve in the >>>first place. >>> >>I have a Mantis at work, too, but I also have one of these. They're a >>great addition and much better than "OptiVisors". >> >>http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/aven-tools/26221/243-1197-ND/1992723 > >Do you generally use the lamp? >
Not usually. I have better lamps on my bench.
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:22:12 -0500, the renowned "Tim Williams" > <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote: > >> "John Larkin"<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message >> news:hccigb9fms4e0atgjv2dotecf7tvkihmvk@4ax.com... >>> Parts are getting smaller a lot faster than we're getting older. 1206 >>> resistors used to seem impossibly small. I was soldering some >>> yesterday and they looked gigantic. Even 0805 looks big. >> >> Pfft, 0603 is average, 0402 and below is where things get tiny. > > What's amazing to me is how perfect the 0603 and 0402 parts look under > a microscope, for something that is almost free to buy. > > Radiused edges and radiused metalization, smooth ceramic. > > My tweezer ends look crude by comparison. > >> >> Not-bragging-bragging about my still young eyes, of course ;-) >> >>> I just got a board with 60 mil high reference designators; they are >>> tiny but beautifully sharp. Yesterday I asked the younger people in >>> production if they would mind my going to 50 mils. They all said no >>> problem, we need magnification to see this stuff already. >> >> Geez, those are bigger than the components. >> >> I've received 25 mil text which was legible, but that's pushing it. I use >> 30 (6 line width) for most SMTs. 60 (occasionally more) is reserved only >> for bulky THTs that you're expected to see while plugging things in. >> >>> Our senses are limited in dealing with electronics. We need a lot of >>> fancy and fun instruments. >> >> Wouldn't mind a Mantis like you've got, but a loupe is quite handy for >> inspecting those things my eyes aren't really sharp enough to resolve in the >> first place. >> >> Tim >
Why doesn't some get an enlarger, put a camera at where the film goes and use a monitor? Result: about 10 inches of work space, HUGE part images (after appropriate adjustment).
On 04/11/2016 03:56 PM, Robert Baer wrote:
> Spehro Pefhany wrote: >> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:22:12 -0500, the renowned "Tim Williams" >> <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote: >> >>> "John Larkin"<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message >>> news:hccigb9fms4e0atgjv2dotecf7tvkihmvk@4ax.com... >>>> Parts are getting smaller a lot faster than we're getting older. 1206 >>>> resistors used to seem impossibly small. I was soldering some >>>> yesterday and they looked gigantic. Even 0805 looks big. >>> >>> Pfft, 0603 is average, 0402 and below is where things get tiny. >> >> What's amazing to me is how perfect the 0603 and 0402 parts look under >> a microscope, for something that is almost free to buy. >> >> Radiused edges and radiused metalization, smooth ceramic. >> >> My tweezer ends look crude by comparison. >> >>> >>> Not-bragging-bragging about my still young eyes, of course ;-) >>> >>>> I just got a board with 60 mil high reference designators; they are >>>> tiny but beautifully sharp. Yesterday I asked the younger people in >>>> production if they would mind my going to 50 mils. They all said no >>>> problem, we need magnification to see this stuff already. >>> >>> Geez, those are bigger than the components. >>> >>> I've received 25 mil text which was legible, but that's pushing it. >>> I use >>> 30 (6 line width) for most SMTs. 60 (occasionally more) is reserved >>> only >>> for bulky THTs that you're expected to see while plugging things in. >>> >>>> Our senses are limited in dealing with electronics. We need a lot of >>>> fancy and fun instruments. >>> >>> Wouldn't mind a Mantis like you've got, but a loupe is quite handy for >>> inspecting those things my eyes aren't really sharp enough to resolve >>> in the >>> first place. >>> >>> Tim >> > Why doesn't some get an enlarger, put a camera at where the film goes > and use a monitor? > Result: about 10 inches of work space, HUGE part images (after > appropriate adjustment). >
You can get copy stands for that--$25 to $300 at Amazon. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
On 4/10/2016 2:48 PM, Bill Martin wrote:
> On 04/09/2016 07:57 AM, Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 02:49:03 -0400, bitrex >> <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote: >> >>> I'm fairly clumsy, and I drop things on the floor a lot. >>> >>> What often happens is that I hear something small clatter to the floor, >>> like a screw, or key, or cell phone charger. I then think "Ah, this >>> should be easy to find." >>> >>> Then I end up hunting around on my hands and knees with a flashlight for >>> that screw I heard fall to the floor...and I never find it. You'd think >>> if you heard it hit the ground, it would be easy to find...but dropped >>> things apparently just vanish into another dimension. >>> >>> Is there any science about why things you drop on the floor always end >>> up in the last place you'd look? >> >> I have a magnet on an extendable wand for "sweeping" the floor. I'm >> forever dropping the tiniest of screws :-( >> >> ...Jim Thompson >> > Ummm, maybe a good addition to one of those robo-suckers...set it off & > check in an hour! :-)
Trouble is they *are't* vacuum cleaners, they are brooms. Small objects tend to be scattered about as much as swept into the bin. -- Rick
On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:56:13 -0800, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

>Spehro Pefhany wrote: >> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 00:22:12 -0500, the renowned "Tim Williams" >> <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote: >> >>> "John Larkin"<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message >>> news:hccigb9fms4e0atgjv2dotecf7tvkihmvk@4ax.com... >>>> Parts are getting smaller a lot faster than we're getting older. 1206 >>>> resistors used to seem impossibly small. I was soldering some >>>> yesterday and they looked gigantic. Even 0805 looks big. >>> >>> Pfft, 0603 is average, 0402 and below is where things get tiny. >> >> What's amazing to me is how perfect the 0603 and 0402 parts look under >> a microscope, for something that is almost free to buy. >> >> Radiused edges and radiused metalization, smooth ceramic. >> >> My tweezer ends look crude by comparison. >> >>> >>> Not-bragging-bragging about my still young eyes, of course ;-) >>> >>>> I just got a board with 60 mil high reference designators; they are >>>> tiny but beautifully sharp. Yesterday I asked the younger people in >>>> production if they would mind my going to 50 mils. They all said no >>>> problem, we need magnification to see this stuff already. >>> >>> Geez, those are bigger than the components. >>> >>> I've received 25 mil text which was legible, but that's pushing it. I use >>> 30 (6 line width) for most SMTs. 60 (occasionally more) is reserved only >>> for bulky THTs that you're expected to see while plugging things in. >>> >>>> Our senses are limited in dealing with electronics. We need a lot of >>>> fancy and fun instruments. >>> >>> Wouldn't mind a Mantis like you've got, but a loupe is quite handy for >>> inspecting those things my eyes aren't really sharp enough to resolve in the >>> first place. >>> >>> Tim >> > Why doesn't some get an enlarger, put a camera at where the film goes >and use a monitor? > Result: about 10 inches of work space, HUGE part images (after >appropriate adjustment).
Such things exist but it's only a pretty bad 2D view (limitations on depth of view, illumination, and all). Mantii and head gear (and even illuminated magnifying glasses) allow depth perception and resolution to the limit of the eye - give or take.