On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 08:16:06 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:>On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 09:12:34 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" ><mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> >>John Larkin wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 17:12:23 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" >>> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote: >>> >>> > >>> >John Larkin wrote: >>> >> >>> >> On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 04:13:17 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" >>> >> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > My truck sat over five months, while I tracked down some parts. >>> >> >Needless to say, the battery was run down when I finished the repairs. >>> >> >The dumbass charger wouldn't detect the battery, so I fired up the lawn >>> >> >tractor and let it charge the truck's battery. >>> >> >>> >> Many modern electronic chargers will not put current into a dead >>> >> battery. I suspect it's part of a scam; car parts places sell you such >>> >> a charger, it doesn't work, you come back, and they sell you a new >>> >> battery. >>> >> >>> >> I keep a cheap bench power supply at home and another one up at the >>> >> cabin. It's good for all sorts of stuff. >>> > >>> > >>> > I blame lawyers, for tying to protect a few idiots from themselves. >>> >>> There's nothing hazardous about charging a zero-volt car battery. And >>> contrary to the opinion of the experts at Cragan Auto Parts, a >>> zero-volt battery is not permanently dead. >>> >>> I returned the stupid charger and got my money back. I found an old >>> DSL wall-wart and put a belt sander in series to keep it from frying, >>> ran that for a few hours, and it started up. Now I keep a power supply >>> around. >> >> >> It isn't designed for zero volts detection. It is designed to prevent >>some fool from connecting it backwards, and causing the battery to boil >>over or even explode. Have you ever seen the damage cause by a battery >>explosion under the hood of a car? I have. You can't flush all of the >>acid out, so over time it cause a lot of rust, and it weakens the steel, >>if it is in contact for very long. >> >> Early car battery chargers were just a light bulb in series with a >>rectifier that was lugged into a 110 volt outlet. No protection from >>electrocution, at all. They were quickly removed from the market, >>because they caused a lot of battery damage, and injured enough people >>to be declared unsafe. My battery charger is home brewed. I bought a new >>surplus battery eliminator for motorhome, and a 10A variac. I mounted >>them into the aluminum case that was from a scrapped W.W.II RADAR >>receiver. I built it while I was in in high school, and it is still >>working, over 45 years later. I can set it to any initial charge >>current, and I can plug it into a timer if I won't be right there while >>it charges. It isn't pretty, but it is very reliable. > >The parts-store electronic chargers are switchmode and reverse >protected. And current limited. And won't put current into a dead >battery. That has to be by design, which could be deliberate design or >very stupid design.I think it's deliberate, so you can't hurt yourself by shorting the thing - lawyers, and all that. It can be quite annoying.
OT: Lead Acid Float Charger
Started by ●March 30, 2016
Reply by ●April 2, 20162016-04-02
Reply by ●April 2, 20162016-04-02
On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:57:34 +0200, Glenn <glenn2233@gmail.com> wrote:>Den 30/03/2016 kl. 22.07 skrev Jim Thompson: >> I drive my pick-em-up truck every few months. >> >> So the battery is dead when I go to use it... like today :-( >> >> I'm looking for recommendations for the _best_ (*) float charger I can >> buy to just plug the truck into when it's parked. >> >> (*) Cost no object. >> >> ...Jim Thompson >> > >The best charger is this: > >CTEK Battery Chargers Are Trusted by Top Brands: >http://smartercharger.com/ > >- > >But be very careful when connecting a power source to your car. The car >electronics do not like power glitches.Automotive power is about the glitchiest power you can find. Car electronics is quite well protected.> >The foreign accumulator should be activated "slowly with e.g. Power MOSFETs. > >How about a home made Jumpstart accumulator consisting of four M1A 3,2Ah >A123system cells with heavy duty wires and connectors?: > >A123 Worlds Smallest VS. "Strongest" 12V Jumpstart battery: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcvmvrmTMMk > > >- > >"Wrong question?" > >Choose LiFePO4-accumulators instead with UnderVoltage-cut-off - I admit >that they are expensive: > >Mar 24, 2014, NEC to buy A123 battery systems unit from China's Wanxiang: >http://www.reuters.com/article/nec-wanxiang-a-idUST9N0MD00820140324 > >60Ah: >http://www.a123systems.com/lithium-starter-battery.htm >http://www.a123systems.com/collateral/documents/english-us/a123-12v-starter-battery.pdf >https://web.archive.org/web/20150501002319/http://www.a123systems.com/collateral/documents/english-us/a123-12v-starter-battery.pdf > >Bases in USA: >http://www.a123systems.com/about-us-locations.htm > >A123Systems - this is for the M1-cell: >http://www.rc-netbutik.dk/getdoc.asp?id=100&md5hash=9810C237586CF6B4325753101E37DAE1 >Quote: "...Curent test projecting excellent calendar life: 17% impedance >growth and 23% capacity loss in 15 [fifteen!] years at 100% SOC, 60 deg. >C..." > > >September 2008, Phenomenal positive revealing Sandia-test: >http://www.lifebatt.com/sandiareport.pdf >Quote: "... >Test results have indicated that the LiFeBatt battery technology can >function up to a 10C discharge rate with minimal energy loss compared to >the 1 h discharged rate (1C). >... >The majority of the capacity loss occurred during the initial [!] 2,000 >cycles, so it is projected that the LiFeBatt should PSOC cycle well >beyond 8,394 cycles with less than 20% capacity loss. >..." >http://www.lifebatt.com/sandiareport.pdf >Quote: "... >[See graph pdf-page 23] >[ Read: 48% capacity availably at -30�C. ] >[ Read: 65% capacity availably at -20�C. ] >[ Read: 74% capacity availably at 0�C. ] >..." > > >PERFORMANCE OF PHOSPHATE LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES IN MOTIVE APPLICATIONS >http://www.battcon.com/PapersFinal2005/NguyenPaper2005.pdf >Quote: "... >On the other hand, a common high capacity rated cobalt lithium-ion cell >is unable to maintain anywhere close to its original capacity. The >cobalt lithium-ion cell may start out at a higher capacity, but it >quickly loses its capacity after several cycles. However, the phosphate >lithium-ion cell is able to continue cycling well and maintaining its >capacity. >... >Current test data on a cell level shows an expected 2000 cycles to 80% >of original capacity...The battery can now match or exceed the life >expectancy of the electric vehicle itself. >..." >http://www.battcon.com/ArchivePapers.htm > >LiFePO4-accumulators are secure compared to standard Li-ion: > >Nail penetration testing A123 Li-ion: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb_J2QQ0k-4 > > >September 21, 2008, LiFePO4 Batteries: A Breakthrough For Electric Vehicles: >http://www.metaefficient.com/rechargeable-batteries/innovative-lifepo4-batteries-electric-vehicles.html >Quote: "... >Here�s a list of all the advantages of LiFePo4 batteries: > * Safe technology � will not catch fire or explode with overcharge >... > * Does not suffer from �thermal runaway� > * Can be used safely in high ambient temperatures of up to 60C >[Celsius] without any degradation in performance >... > * Can be safely rapidly recharged � when fully discharged can be >brought to a state of over 90% fully charged in 15 minutes >..." > >- > >Standard Li-Ion: > >Exploding Laptops on Good Morning America: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvTRKKS0wpo > >Nail penetration testing Standard Li-ion: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f30fBFitkSM > >Modify Li-Po Battery Nail Penetration Test: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vdOC8dN3_I > >Lithium Polymer Battery Explosion's (liposack): >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3o_2mwRPdw > >- > >Lead-acid accumulators are not designed to be used: > >Standard lead-acid accumulators works for 50-100 full cycles: >http://www.electricrider.com/batteries/index.htm >Quote: "... >The cycle life of sealed lead-acid is directly related to the depth of >discharge. The typical number of discharge/charge cycles at 25�C (77�F) >with respect to the depth of discharge is: > >* 50 - 100 cycles with 100% depth of discharge (full discharge) >* 150 - 250 cycles with 70% depth of discharge (deep discharge) >* 300 - 500 cycles with 50% depth of discharge (partial discharge) >* 800 and more cycles with 30% depth of discharge (shallow discharge) >[three years?] >..." > >- > >Have not seen these LiFePO4-accumulators yet: > >11 March 2009 Lithium batteries charge ahead. >Researchers demonstrate cells that can power up in seconds: >http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090311/full/news.2009.156.html?s=news_rss >Quote: "... >That seemed to be the case for lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4), a >material that is used in the cathode of a small number of commercial >batteries. But when Ceder and Kang did some calculations, they saw that >the compound could theoretically do much better. Its crystal structure >creates "perfectly sized tunnels for lithium to move through", says >Ceder. "We saw that we could reach ridiculously fast charging rates." >... >The authors helped the ions by coating the surface of the cathode with a >thin layer of lithium phosphate glass, which is known to be an excellent >lithium conductor. Testing their newly-coated cathode, they found that >they could charge and discharge it in as little as 9 seconds. >..." > >br, > >Glenn
Reply by ●April 2, 20162016-04-02
On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 03:10:11 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> wrote:>On 03/04/16 02:16, John Larkin wrote: >> On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 09:12:34 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" >> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> >>>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 17:12:23 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" >>>> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 04:13:17 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" >>>>>> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My truck sat over five months, while I tracked down some parts. >>>>>>> Needless to say, the battery was run down when I finished the repairs. >>>>>>> The dumbass charger wouldn't detect the battery, so I fired up the lawn >>>>>>> tractor and let it charge the truck's battery. >>>>>> >>>>>> Many modern electronic chargers will not put current into a dead >>>>>> battery. I suspect it's part of a scam; car parts places sell you such >>>>>> a charger, it doesn't work, you come back, and they sell you a new >>>>>> battery. >>>>>> >>>>>> I keep a cheap bench power supply at home and another one up at the >>>>>> cabin. It's good for all sorts of stuff. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I blame lawyers, for tying to protect a few idiots from themselves. >>>> >>>> There's nothing hazardous about charging a zero-volt car battery. And >>>> contrary to the opinion of the experts at Cragan Auto Parts, a >>>> zero-volt battery is not permanently dead. >>>> >>>> I returned the stupid charger and got my money back. I found an old >>>> DSL wall-wart and put a belt sander in series to keep it from frying, >>>> ran that for a few hours, and it started up. Now I keep a power supply >>>> around. >>> >>> >>> It isn't designed for zero volts detection. It is designed to prevent >>> some fool from connecting it backwards, and causing the battery to boil >>> over or even explode. Have you ever seen the damage cause by a battery >>> explosion under the hood of a car? I have. You can't flush all of the >>> acid out, so over time it cause a lot of rust, and it weakens the steel, >>> if it is in contact for very long. >>> >>> Early car battery chargers were just a light bulb in series with a >>> rectifier that was lugged into a 110 volt outlet. No protection from >>> electrocution, at all. They were quickly removed from the market, >>> because they caused a lot of battery damage, and injured enough people >>> to be declared unsafe. My battery charger is home brewed. I bought a new >>> surplus battery eliminator for motorhome, and a 10A variac. I mounted >>> them into the aluminum case that was from a scrapped W.W.II RADAR >>> receiver. I built it while I was in in high school, and it is still >>> working, over 45 years later. I can set it to any initial charge >>> current, and I can plug it into a timer if I won't be right there while >>> it charges. It isn't pretty, but it is very reliable. >> >> The parts-store electronic chargers are switchmode and reverse >> protected. And current limited. And won't put current into a dead >> battery. That has to be by design, which could be deliberate design or >> very stupid design. > >The design I built (from a kit, into a standard Arlec 4A charger) >doesn't activate the charger until it sees some voltage on the output >(from the battery). I forget how it does that, but I recall it was quite >a cleverly simple design. I have the schematic on paper somewhere.That's not a feature, it's a bug. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
Reply by ●April 2, 20162016-04-02
On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 11:00:44 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:>On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:57:34 +0200, Glenn <glenn2233@gmail.com> wrote: > >>Den 30/03/2016 kl. 22.07 skrev Jim Thompson: >>> I drive my pick-em-up truck every few months. >>> >>> So the battery is dead when I go to use it... like today :-( >>> >>> I'm looking for recommendations for the _best_ (*) float charger I can >>> buy to just plug the truck into when it's parked. >>> >>> (*) Cost no object. >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >>> >> >>The best charger is this: >> >>CTEK Battery Chargers Are Trusted by Top Brands: >>http://smartercharger.com/ >> > >[snip] > >Since I know battery charging temperature behavior rather well (see my >patents), maybe I should just roll my own with 100mA capability ;-) > > ...Jim ThompsonJust go the solar panel route. My Moms car is a candidate, so I just ordered a 2.4W Schumacher. I'll see how that turns out, it's on the north side of the house and dosent get much sun in the winter so I might have to go back to running it once a month. Cheers
Reply by ●April 2, 20162016-04-02
On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 21:48:50 -0400, Martin Riddle <martin_ridd@verizon.net> wrote:>On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 11:00:44 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:57:34 +0200, Glenn <glenn2233@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>Den 30/03/2016 kl. 22.07 skrev Jim Thompson: >>>> I drive my pick-em-up truck every few months. >>>> >>>> So the battery is dead when I go to use it... like today :-( >>>> >>>> I'm looking for recommendations for the _best_ (*) float charger I can >>>> buy to just plug the truck into when it's parked. >>>> >>>> (*) Cost no object. >>>> >>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>> >>> >>>The best charger is this: >>> >>>CTEK Battery Chargers Are Trusted by Top Brands: >>>http://smartercharger.com/ >>> >> >>[snip] >> >>Since I know battery charging temperature behavior rather well (see my >>patents), maybe I should just roll my own with 100mA capability ;-) >> >> ...Jim Thompson > >Just go the solar panel route. >My Moms car is a candidate, so I just ordered a 2.4W Schumacher. >I'll see how that turns out, it's on the north side of the house and >dosent get much sun in the winter so I might have to go back to >running it once a month. > >CheersI generally avoid anything that "smells leftist", but Arizona doesn't do daylight-savings because we have enough sun already... so maybe I'll try that out ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | The touchstone of liberalism is intolerance
Reply by ●April 3, 20162016-04-03
On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 19:09:31 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:>On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 21:48:50 -0400, Martin Riddle ><martin_ridd@verizon.net> wrote: > >>On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 11:00:44 -0700, Jim Thompson >><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >>>On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:57:34 +0200, Glenn <glenn2233@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>Den 30/03/2016 kl. 22.07 skrev Jim Thompson: >>>>> I drive my pick-em-up truck every few months. >>>>> >>>>> So the battery is dead when I go to use it... like today :-( >>>>> >>>>> I'm looking for recommendations for the _best_ (*) float charger I can >>>>> buy to just plug the truck into when it's parked. >>>>> >>>>> (*) Cost no object. >>>>> >>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>> >>>> >>>>The best charger is this: >>>> >>>>CTEK Battery Chargers Are Trusted by Top Brands: >>>>http://smartercharger.com/ >>>> >>> >>>[snip] >>> >>>Since I know battery charging temperature behavior rather well (see my >>>patents), maybe I should just roll my own with 100mA capability ;-) >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >> >>Just go the solar panel route. >>My Moms car is a candidate, so I just ordered a 2.4W Schumacher. >>I'll see how that turns out, it's on the north side of the house and >>dosent get much sun in the winter so I might have to go back to >>running it once a month. >> >>Cheers > >I generally avoid anything that "smells leftist", but Arizona doesn't >do daylight-savings because we have enough sun already... so maybe >I'll try that out ;-) > > ...Jim ThompsonWell, that free 1 hour of sunlight dosen't do much up here. ;D Cheers
Reply by ●April 3, 20162016-04-03
On 4/2/2016 9:09 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:> On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 21:48:50 -0400, Martin Riddle > <martin_ridd@verizon.net> wrote: > >> On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 11:00:44 -0700, Jim Thompson >> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:57:34 +0200, Glenn <glenn2233@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Den 30/03/2016 kl. 22.07 skrev Jim Thompson: >>>>> I drive my pick-em-up truck every few months. >>>>> >>>>> So the battery is dead when I go to use it... like today :-( >>>>> >>>>> I'm looking for recommendations for the _best_ (*) float charger I can >>>>> buy to just plug the truck into when it's parked. >>>>> >>>>> (*) Cost no object. >>>>> >>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>> >>>> >>>> The best charger is this: >>>> >>>> CTEK Battery Chargers Are Trusted by Top Brands: >>>> http://smartercharger.com/ >>>> >>> >>> [snip] >>> >>> Since I know battery charging temperature behavior rather well (see my >>> patents), maybe I should just roll my own with 100mA capability ;-) >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >> >> Just go the solar panel route. >> My Moms car is a candidate, so I just ordered a 2.4W Schumacher. >> I'll see how that turns out, it's on the north side of the house and >> dosent get much sun in the winter so I might have to go back to >> running it once a month. >> >> Cheers > > I generally avoid anything that "smells leftist", but Arizona doesn't > do daylight-savings because we have enough sun already... so maybe > I'll try that out ;-) > > ...Jim Thompson >Yeah, they left the "d" out of Aridzona.
Reply by ●May 27, 20162016-05-27
Jim Thompson wrote:> I drive my pick-em-up truck every few months.> So the battery is dead when I go to use it... like today :-(> I'm looking for recommendations for the _best_ (*) float charger I can > buy to just plug the truck into when it's parked.> (*) Cost no object.Sorry, I'm a little late to the party. BatteryMINDer gets my vote.