Magamp oscillator

On 11/3/2015 8:40 PM, George Herold wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 1:03:19 PM UTC-5, Piotr Wyderski wrote:
>> legg wrote:
>>
>>> I challenge you to find the word 'oscillate' or 'oscillator' in any
>>> text devoted to magnetic amplifiers or saturable inductor circuits.
>>
>> You don't need to challenge me, I have exactly the same
>> experience after nontrivial amount of googling. There's
>> nothing about it. Which is the reason I asked here, the
>> people inhabiting this newsgroup know a lot about all
>> kinds of crazy things.
>>
>> 	Best regards, Piotr
>
> Does this have a use?  I would think you could
> make a bang-bang oscillator but you'd need a switch or two.
>
> George H.
>
  Just in case that was to me, I think it was just and experiment
to see how low he could go on B+ and still make an oscillator.
He started with making a very high input impedance transformer for
crystal radio use, and that led to this. (I think)
  He has a site, at the bottom is a list of projects, you will find
the transformer project in that list.
> http://www.crystal-radio.eu/index.html

                             Mikek

Piotr Wyderski wrote:
> Is it at all possible to build an oscillator entirely from
> non-linear magnetics (OK, solid state diodes are allowed)?
>
> Best regards, Piotr
   The telephone ringing generator is such a beast.

Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Tue, 3 Nov 2015 11:45:33 +0100) it happened Piotr Wyderski
> <peter.pan@neverland.mil>  wrote in<n1a38d$sbh$3@node1.news.atman.pl>:
>
>> Is it at all possible to build an oscillator entirely from
>> non-linear magnetics (OK, solid state diodes are allowed)?
>>
>>         Best regards, Piotr
>
> Transductors.. have gain, so why not?
>
> Solid state diode ->  tunnel diode, not much else needed.
   The telephone ringing generator used inductors and capacitors; both 
of those are solid state (no gas, no vacuum).

Piotr Wyderski wrote:
> tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> so derive your ac with a spinning magnet/coil.
>
> Yes, an Alexanderson alternator would be an option. :-)
> But how about a circuit without any moving parts. Doable?
>
> Best regards, Piotr
>
>
   As i said, Ma Bell did it..

John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 15:53:56 +0100, Piotr Wyderski
> <peter.pan@neverland.mil>  wrote:
>
>> tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> so derive your ac with a spinning magnet/coil.
>>
>> Yes, an Alexanderson alternator would be an option. :-)
>> But how about a circuit without any moving parts. Doable?
>>
>> 	Best regards, Piotr
>>
>
> If you mean a DC powered circuit that oscillates using only passive
> parts and diodes, no relays or such, I've never seen it done. Except
> tunnel or some other negative-resistance diode.
>
>
   BUT you have...the ring generator in the telephone,designed and made 
by the millions by Ma Bell.

John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:19:34 +0100, Piotr Wyderski
> <peter.pan@neverland.mil>  wrote:
>
>> John Larkin wrote:
>>
>>> If you mean a DC powered circuit that oscillates using only passive
>>> parts and diodes, no relays or such, I've never seen it done.
>>
>> I'm not sure if you can call a magnetic amplifier a passive part.
>> It can exhibit admirable power gain, but needs to be powered by AC,
>> for example:
>>
>> http://sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-audio-amp/mag-audio-amp.htm
>>
>> The guy claims it has the gain of 2000. So recently, I have
>> started to wonder if you can use such a device as a DC-powered
>> oscillator. I agree, the answer "yes" would be a surprise, but
>> maybe it is "yes" indeed?
>>
>> 	Best regards, Piotr
>
> You can also make an amplifier or an oscillator using varicap and
> rectifier diodes, but it also needs an AC pump.
>
> Since nobody has done what you suggest in about 200 years of
> tinkering, I suspect it can't be done.
>
>
>
   And the bee cannot fly.

On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 08:49:10 -0800, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

>John Larkin wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:19:34 +0100, Piotr Wyderski
>> <peter.pan@neverland.mil>  wrote:
>>
>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you mean a DC powered circuit that oscillates using only passive
>>>> parts and diodes, no relays or such, I've never seen it done.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure if you can call a magnetic amplifier a passive part.
>>> It can exhibit admirable power gain, but needs to be powered by AC,
>>> for example:
>>>
>>> http://sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-audio-amp/mag-audio-amp.htm
>>>
>>> The guy claims it has the gain of 2000. So recently, I have
>>> started to wonder if you can use such a device as a DC-powered
>>> oscillator. I agree, the answer "yes" would be a surprise, but
>>> maybe it is "yes" indeed?
>>>
>>> 	Best regards, Piotr
>>
>> You can also make an amplifier or an oscillator using varicap and
>> rectifier diodes, but it also needs an AC pump.
>>
>> Since nobody has done what you suggest in about 200 years of
>> tinkering, I suspect it can't be done.
>>
>>
>>
>   And the bee cannot fly.

Some things are actually impossible.

Bees can obviously fly. What idiot decided that they can't?

If you can design an oscillator that meets Piotr's requirements, we'd
love to see it.


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 08:47:53 -0800, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

>John Larkin wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 15:53:56 +0100, Piotr Wyderski
>> <peter.pan@neverland.mil>  wrote:
>>
>>> tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> so derive your ac with a spinning magnet/coil.
>>>
>>> Yes, an Alexanderson alternator would be an option. :-)
>>> But how about a circuit without any moving parts. Doable?
>>>
>>> 	Best regards, Piotr
>>>
>>
>> If you mean a DC powered circuit that oscillates using only passive
>> parts and diodes, no relays or such, I've never seen it done. Except
>> tunnel or some other negative-resistance diode.
>>
>>
>   BUT you have...the ring generator in the telephone,designed and made 
>by the millions by Ma Bell.

How does that work?


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 9:31:10 AM UTC-5, Piotr Wyderski wrote:
> legg wrote:
> 
> > Magnetic amplifiers are conventionally effective in an AC environment
> > - the power source is already 'oscillating'.
> 
> Hence my question, whether it would be possible to build an all-magnetic 
> circuit.
> 
> 	Best regards, Piotr

I think you could make an oscillator using a mag amp for gain.  But if you use say 60 hz power, the highest frequency that the oscillator could run at would be about 6 hz.  

                                  Dan

On Wednesday, 4 November 2015 21:37:04 UTC, dca...@krl.org  wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 9:31:10 AM UTC-5, Piotr Wyderski wrote:
> > legg wrote:

> > > Magnetic amplifiers are conventionally effective in an AC environment
> > > - the power source is already 'oscillating'.
> > 
> > Hence my question, whether it would be possible to build an all-magnetic 
> > circuit.

> I think you could make an oscillator using a mag amp for gain.  But if you use say 60 hz power, the highest frequency that the oscillator could run at would be about 6 hz.  

Feed the 60Hz to an LC & get 600 out of it. Oh, via diodes. BTDT by accident.


NT