Magamp oscillator

On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 06:52:11 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

>On Tuesday, 3 November 2015 14:31:10 UTC, Piotr Wyderski  wrote:
>> legg wrote:
>
>> > Magnetic amplifiers are conventionally effective in an AC environment
>> > - the power source is already 'oscillating'.
>> 
>> Hence my question, whether it would be possible to build an all-magnetic 
>> circuit.
>> 
>> 	Best regards, Piotr
>
>so derive your ac with a spinning magnet/coil.

That's already an oscillator! Done!




-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

In article <n1ast3$rgn$1@node1.news.atman.pl>, peter.pan@neverland.mil 
says...
> 
> legg wrote:
> 
> > I challenge you to find the word 'oscillate' or 'oscillator' in any
> > text devoted to magnetic amplifiers or saturable inductor circuits.
> 
> You don't need to challenge me, I have exactly the same
> experience after nontrivial amount of googling. There's
> nothing about it. Which is the reason I asked here, the
> people inhabiting this newsgroup know a lot about all
> kinds of crazy things.
> 
> 	Best regards, Piotr

 I suppose if you had an ideal C and L in parallel and had
the CAP precharged when connecting them, while in a ideal
invironment it would keep ringing to the end of days.

Jamie

On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 1:03:19 PM UTC-5, Piotr Wyderski wrote:
> legg wrote:
> 
> > I challenge you to find the word 'oscillate' or 'oscillator' in any
> > text devoted to magnetic amplifiers or saturable inductor circuits.
> 
> You don't need to challenge me, I have exactly the same
> experience after nontrivial amount of googling. There's
> nothing about it. Which is the reason I asked here, the
> people inhabiting this newsgroup know a lot about all
> kinds of crazy things.
> 
> 	Best regards, Piotr

Does this have a use?  I would think you could 
make a bang-bang oscillator but you'd need a switch or two.

George H. 

On 2015-11-03, Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> wrote:
> Is it at all possible to build an oscillator entirely from
> non-linear magnetics (OK, solid state diodes are allowed)?
>
> 	Best regards, Piotr

mag amps require an AC supply to exhibit amplification, so if you
allow an AC supply then yes it's possible.

I think the ring generators used to generate ring voltage for phone
exchanges used to work that way,  being some sort of phase-locked
oscillator.  dividing 60Hz to 20Hz or 50Hz to 16.66' Hz.


-- 
  \_(&#12484;)_

On a sunny day (Tue, 3 Nov 2015 16:30:15 +0100) it happened Piotr Wyderski
<peter.pan@neverland.mil> wrote in <n1aju7$i6k$1@node1.news.atman.pl>:

>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
>> DC motor...
>
>And, in fact, it is a correct answer. Yes, it can be done that way.
>Now try without movables or argue it's impossible. :-)

I already told ye,
'solid state diode' -> tunnel diode.
If you do not know 'tunnel diode' then look up Esaki diode perhaps.
An LC oscillator can be made with 1 inductor resonating on its own winding capacitance
if you are strict and do not allow capacitors, and some resistor (you
will also need those in magnetic amplifiers).
So then you are already done.
If you MUST use transductors, then use the tunnel diode generated AC to power some, and feedback,
for a gain > 1 and the correct phase that will oscillate too.
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_diode

Unless you want to change the rules when playing, and forbid these diodes...
Even than be it powered by AC or DC, ANY amplifier needs a power source,
magnetic amplifiers too.

There is no problem.

George Herold wrote:

> Does this have a use?

I don't think so, the question is out of pure curiosity.
As one of the other posters has already noticed, it would
not be better than a transistor-based oscillator, and not
even smaller. Since the smallest reasonable oscillator is
probably an ATTiny in SOT23-6...

I am currently playing with magamps and hence the question.

	Best regards, Piotr

Jan Panteltje wrote:

> I already told ye,
> 'solid state diode' -> tunnel diode.
> If you do not know 'tunnel diode' then look up Esaki diode perhaps.

I know of tunnel diodes and I like the idea.
The available ones are low-power, but that can be amplified.

	Best regards, Piotr

On 03/11/2015 15:54, John Larkin wrote:
>
> You can also make an amplifier or an oscillator using varicap and
> rectifier diodes, but it also needs an AC pump.
>
> Since nobody has done what you suggest in about 200 years of
> tinkering, I suspect it can't be done.
>

I recall seeing a late 1950s "all diode audio amplifier" circuit, it was 
class-D pwm and used only 2 terminal active devices. As well as regular 
rectifier diodes it used 4 layer diodes as relaxation oscilators!

piglet

On 03/11/2015 10:45, Piotr Wyderski wrote:
> Is it at all possible to build an oscillator entirely from
> non-linear magnetics (OK, solid state diodes are allowed)?
>
>      Best regards, Piotr

There is such a thing as the "parametric transformer" about which I know 
nothing but assuming it works like a varactor diode parametric amplifier 
then I suppose it could be made to oscillate, I guess it needs a higher 
frequency pump to provide the power source?

piglet

On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 12:55:42 AM UTC-8, piglet wrote:
> On 03/11/2015 10:45, Piotr Wyderski wrote:
> > Is it at all possible to build an oscillator entirely from
> > non-linear magnetics (OK, solid state diodes are allowed)?

> There is such a thing as the "parametric transformer" about which I know 
> nothing but ...

Magnetic amplifiers are in the general class of 'parametric amplifiers'; I think
some of the ferroresonant tricks were given names such as "parametric
transformer", but one would have to search a lot of old sales brochures to be sure.