Forums

LCD cleaning

Started by Don Y August 15, 2015
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 09:25:02 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:

>On 8/15/2015 7:41 PM, Martin Riddle wrote: >> On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 18:44:07 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote: > >>> I've always advocated "100 proof"[1] alcohol and a microfiber rag to >>> clean LCD monitors. Is there a commercial product (that doesn't >>> have silly additives, dyes, etc.) that I can recommend to a friend >>> for the same purpose (albeit much more expensive)? > >> I use the Monster LCD cleaning kit, blue dye maybe? but it does have a >> microfiber rag with it. I perfer the matte finish displays so I dont >> see the streaks. > >What does it have listed for ingredients?
De-ionized water and proprietary polymers. It's actually clear, the bottle is blue. Cheers
On 8/16/2015 11:55 AM, Don Y wrote:
> On 8/16/2015 9:32 AM, John S wrote: > >>> [1] Of course, you *make* this from distilled water and isopropyl >>> alcohol -- save the "good stuff" for drinking! :> >> >> I recommend Everclear (190 proof) available at the liquor store. Very few >> impurities. > > Yes, I use it for making "extracts" (e.g., for baking flavorings). It's > far more expensive than isopropyl alcohol; not keen on using that to clean > screens! :-/
I can usually clean my screen by first using a soft brush to remove the dust and then the microfiber wipe with no chemicals applied. You must have a difficult environment if you need a solvent.
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 08:12:02 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>Isopropyl alcohol generally has oil added ("rubbing" alcohol).
I beg to differ. If there were any oil, the stuff would leave some oil residue when evaporated. The common description of the ingredients for rubbing alcohol offer no mention of any oils. Some include perfume oils and colorants, but those are always identified on the label: <http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemicalcomposition/f/What-Are-The-Ingredients-In-Rubbing-Alcohol.htm> <http://gato-docs.its.txstate.edu/facilities/Custodial-Documents/MSDS-Documents/Alcohol-Isopropal-70percent-3-1-2010/Alcohol%20Isopropal%2070percent%203.1.2010.pdf>
>I use denatured alcohol straight or water diluted as my cleaning >solution.
Diluted water? Well, ok.
>(You can buy denatured alcohol in the paint department of most >hardware stores.)
Drug store denatured alcohol is mostly ethanol with a little methyl alcohol added to make it unsuitable for making booze. Hardware store denatured alcohol is very different. I'm looking at a rusty old can of Ace "Pure Denatured Alcohol" #11342: <http://emc-msds.com/chemdocs/32/32454.pdf> <http://archpdfs.lps.org/Chemicals/Denatured-Alcohol_Ace.pdf> Note the changes formulation over the years: It contains: Ethanol (the good stuff) Methanol (the stuff you don't want to drink) Methyl Isobutyl Ketone (Hexone solvent) Ethyl Acetate (a solvent) Rubber Solvent (naphtha solvent) Water In other words, it's a mix of various solvents, some which are probably going to do bad things to a plastic anti-glare film on the LCD display. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 09:55:22 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:

>On 8/16/2015 9:32 AM, John S wrote: > >>> [1] Of course, you *make* this from distilled water and isopropyl >>> alcohol -- save the "good stuff" for drinking! :> >> >> I recommend Everclear (190 proof) available at the liquor store. Very few >> impurities.
>Yes, I use it for making "extracts" (e.g., for baking flavorings). It's >far more expensive than isopropyl alcohol; not keen on using that to clean >screens! :-/
$26/liter for Everclear. A can of hardware store denatured alcohol is about $6/liter. Drugstore 91% alcohol is about $4/liter. This is not a difficult decision. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:36:35 -0500, John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org>
wrote:

>I can usually clean my screen by first using a soft brush to remove the >dust and then the microfiber wipe with no chemicals applied. You must >have a difficult environment if you need a solvent.
I see an average of 5 different laptops per week. You will be amazed at how filthy they can be in a fairly short time. The worst are the automotive repair shop laptops (used for running diagnostics), that are usually covered with a thick layer of grease and grime. Then, there are the smokers, where the LCD monitor screen contains a vapor deposited layer of tar and whatever else they put in cancer sticks these days. The road warrior likes to sip coffee while checking his email at Starbucks, so the screen is coated with food and beverage spatterings. The home economist often likes to use the laptop on the kitchen counter, with predictable results. I think the worst is the machine shop, where the LCD display and all the plastic case parts, were encrusted with hot metal chips, that had melted their way into the plastic and become permanent. I almost forgot the customer that wanted me to "adjust" her computer and then informed me after I was done that the yellow goo on the bottom of the screen was actually cat urine. Yes, some chemicals are usually required. Incidentally, I make it habit of cleaning the case and screen of everything that goes through the shop. Nobody believes that their machine has been repaired unless it also looks repaired. Topic drift: I have a pet peeve about laptops that are designed to be difficult to clean. Todays laptops are designed to suck up all the loose debris from the table, lap, or bed where they're used. That would not be a problem if the debris when through the heat pipe heat exchanger fins and out the back. Most often, they get stuck between the fan and fins. These are photos of what I usually find AFTER I use a 60 psi air hose to try and blow out the lint: <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/repair/HP%20Envy%20m6%20clogged%20fan/index.html> It was about 50% clogged and overheating. Notice that I had to tear apart the laptop in order to clean out the fan and fins. This is what a properly designed laptop looks like: <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/repair/Dell%20Inspiron%201525/index.html> Notice the easy access to the fan and fins without having to tear apart the machine. Yes, there's more to cleaning than just wiping the screen. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 09:47:48 -0700, Don Y <this@is.not.me.com> wrote:

>> <https://www.cloroxprofessional.com/products/formula-409-glass-surface-cleaner/at-a-glance/> > >Hmmm... the list of ingredients seems to include abrasives.
I don't think so? The new and mostly useless SDS replacement for MSDS does not list any ingredients or abrasives: <https://www.thecloroxcompany.com/downloads/msds/cloroxprofessionalproductscloroxcommercialsolutionsformula409/cloroxcommercialsolutionsformula409glasssurfacecleanerjw2014-08-10.pdf> Where did you find that there were abrasives? The spray bottle would need to shaken in order to prevent the abrasive particles from precipitating to the bottom of the spray bottle. That's not recommended or done. I just evaporated some 409 on a microscope slide. No solid residue found.
>Problem with soap is it leaves a residue.
Yep. However, the reason adding dish washing liquid is not for the soap. It's for reducing the surface tension of the liquid, which reduces the tendency to produce water spots. A clue is that the article mumbles to only use a drop or two, which would be grossly inadequate for soap, but just fine for a surfactant. You can do as well with a few drops of Kodak Photo-Flo: <http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/products/chemistry/bwFilmProcessing/photoFloSolution.jhtml?pq-path=14039>
>Yeah, a friend suggested that. But, it's also "not over the counter" >(i.e., would need to be "mixed" prior to use)
Make up a gallon of your favored elixir and ship it to him. It should last many years if he doesn't spill it. He's unlikely to need another gallon in his lifetime, so I don't see any reason to insist on commercial availability.
>Not looking at laptop screens but, rather, LCD monitors.
Same thing. Matt displays are risky because of the plastic coating. Glossy displays are not a problem unless you use something that etches glass.
>> Ammonia >> has similar problems so that should also be used carefully. I also > >Yes. Hence no Windex.
There are many home made window cleaner formulas on the internet that do not use ammonia. I did a quick survey and found that most use alcohol, vinegar, or both as the active ingredient.
>I think it is a matter of continued use that causes the problem. >You'd probably never see it from incremental use. But, compare >one that had been cleaned X times against one that hadn't...
Most users are thoroughly confused as to what to use to clean their display. When it arrives on my bench, I'm often the first and last person to ever clean the screen. This is one case where the industry FUD (fear uncertainty doubt) is beneficial. I have a collection of cheap 1" paint brushes in the office. Anyone with a dust problem gets handed one with instruction to use it LIGHTLY to remove the dust. The solvents are for grease and ossified food, that cannot be removed with a brush. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 11:47:06 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 08:12:02 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>Isopropyl alcohol generally has oil added ("rubbing" alcohol). > >I beg to differ. If there were any oil, the stuff would leave some >oil residue when evaporated. The common description of the >ingredients for rubbing alcohol offer no mention of any oils. Some >include perfume oils and colorants, but those are always identified on >the label: ><http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemicalcomposition/f/What-Are-The-Ingredients-In-Rubbing-Alcohol.htm> ><http://gato-docs.its.txstate.edu/facilities/Custodial-Documents/MSDS-Documents/Alcohol-Isopropal-70percent-3-1-2010/Alcohol%20Isopropal%2070percent%203.1.2010.pdf> > >>I use denatured alcohol straight or water diluted as my cleaning >>solution. > >Diluted water? Well, ok.
Get head out of butt... "water-diluted".
> >>(You can buy denatured alcohol in the paint department of most >>hardware stores.) > >Drug store denatured alcohol is mostly ethanol with a little methyl >alcohol added to make it unsuitable for making booze. > >Hardware store denatured alcohol is very different. I'm looking at a >rusty old can of Ace "Pure Denatured Alcohol" #11342: ><http://emc-msds.com/chemdocs/32/32454.pdf> ><http://archpdfs.lps.org/Chemicals/Denatured-Alcohol_Ace.pdf> >Note the changes formulation over the years: > >It contains: > Ethanol (the good stuff) > Methanol (the stuff you don't want to drink) > Methyl Isobutyl Ketone (Hexone solvent) > Ethyl Acetate (a solvent) > Rubber Solvent (naphtha solvent) > Water >In other words, it's a mix of various solvents, some which are >probably going to do bad things to a plastic anti-glare film on the >LCD display.
You live in Californica... here, in AZ, it only has Methanol added to it to keep you from drinking it and avoiding the "spirits" tax ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:39:23 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
Gave us:

>Yep. However, the reason adding dish washing liquid is not for the >soap. It's for reducing the surface tension of the liquid, which >reduces the tendency to produce water spots. A clue is that the >article mumbles to only use a drop or two, which would be grossly >inadequate for soap, but just fine for a surfactant.
Surgeon's scrub foam dispenser. The evaporating type 'instant' hand wash stuff is great too. The trick is finding the latter free of emollient additives.
Den s&#2013266168;ndag den 16. august 2015 kl. 21.55.14 UTC+2 skrev DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno:
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:39:23 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> > Gave us: > > >Yep. However, the reason adding dish washing liquid is not for the > >soap. It's for reducing the surface tension of the liquid, which > >reduces the tendency to produce water spots. A clue is that the > >article mumbles to only use a drop or two, which would be grossly > >inadequate for soap, but just fine for a surfactant. > > Surgeon's scrub foam dispenser. > > The evaporating type 'instant' hand wash stuff is great too. The > trick is finding the latter free of emollient additives.
it is mostly denatured ethanol, might as well use that -Lasse
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:43:36 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>>>I use denatured alcohol straight or water diluted as my cleaning >>>solution. >> >>Diluted water? Well, ok.
>Get head out of butt... "water-diluted".
For a moment, I was beginning to suspect that you might be into homeopathy, where everything is diluted with alcohol or water: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathic_dilutions>
>You live in Californica... here, in AZ, it only has Methanol added to >it to keep you from drinking it and avoiding the "spirits" tax ;-) > ...Jim Thompson
Ace Hardware is a national retail cooperative and has 4,600 locations. Presumably, they don't supply special formulations for each state. However, as I previously mumbled, the Ace Hardware formulation seems to have changed over the years. Doesn't one have to be dead in order to tax their spirit? Taxing the dead seems rather non-productive. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558