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crazy NPN

Started by John Larkin April 10, 2015
"John Larkin" <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message 
news:tmkiiat9p0df4hrrh13veqce732pmrnjap@4ax.com...
> Should I use the regular ones, or the cryogenically frozen ones? > Bronze or black plates? Looks like I can get them for about $40 each.
Glad you asked! Only authentic name-brand, Premium Quality, NOS, gold plated, degaussed, cryogenically treated, virgin-signed types will do. ... $40 sounds like a list price; I should think you can find them cheaper (if not virgin-blessed), but they are kind of an oddball. Kind of the 1950s equivalent of having a 60V, 2A "Low Vce(sat)" transistor in a SOT-23-6 (dual). Those were pretty neat when Zetex (and others) introduced 'em. Ironically, 6V6s and whatnot are current production, but the modest market size and current demand tend to inflate the price over old-stock prices. If you wanted cheap tubes (it's a hypothetical, bear with me), the myriad oddball TV tubes are still the way to go. Unbranded subminis can go for pretty cheap, but they aren't much use outside of nuclear attacks (ex-JAN stock turns up quite commonly), being that they have specs largely similar to a 2N3819 with the drain voltage multiplied by 10, plus that pesky heater. Tim -- Seven Transistor Labs Electrical Engineering Consultation Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com
On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 19:52:45 -0500, "Tim Williams"
<tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote:

>"John Larkin" <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message >news:tmkiiat9p0df4hrrh13veqce732pmrnjap@4ax.com... >> Should I use the regular ones, or the cryogenically frozen ones? >> Bronze or black plates? Looks like I can get them for about $40 each. > >Glad you asked! Only authentic name-brand, Premium Quality, NOS, gold >plated, degaussed, cryogenically treated, virgin-signed types will do. > >... > >$40 sounds like a list price; I should think you can find them cheaper (if >not virgin-blessed), but they are kind of an oddball. > >Kind of the 1950s equivalent of having a 60V, 2A "Low Vce(sat)" transistor >in a SOT-23-6 (dual). Those were pretty neat when Zetex (and others) >introduced 'em. > >Ironically, 6V6s and whatnot are current production, but the modest market >size and current demand tend to inflate the price over old-stock prices. >If you wanted cheap tubes (it's a hypothetical, bear with me), the myriad >oddball TV tubes are still the way to go. > >Unbranded subminis can go for pretty cheap, but they aren't much use >outside of nuclear attacks (ex-JAN stock turns up quite commonly), being >that they have specs largely similar to a 2N3819 with the drain voltage >multiplied by 10, plus that pesky heater. > >Tim
Someone did send me a couple of the tiny tubes that were used in WWII proximity fuzes, shot out of guns at 20,000 Gs. They helped enourmously late in the war, against the kamakazie in the Pacific and against German aircraft over England. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Prox/Prox_Tubes.jpg and I have a krytron! https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Tubes/Kry_Danger.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Tubes/Kry_Guts.jpg These were used to fire the many detonators on the first few generations of implosion-type plutonium bombs. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing laser drivers and controllers jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 21:08:56 -0500, "Tim Williams"
<tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote:

>A 6V6GT has much higher hFE, is almost certainly much faster, and is >capable of dissipating more power, too. I'm not feeling won over, here. >;-) >Tim
Not to worry. Vacuum tubes might be making a comeback in the form of vacuum channel transistors: <http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/introducing-the-vacuum-transistor-a-device-made-of-nothing> The main benefit is low noise: <http://spectrum.ieee.org/consumer-electronics/audiovideo/the-cool-sound-of-tubes/3/distortion> (All I know about these is what I've read in various articles). Drivel: I still have a tube caddy somewhere. Back to lying and cheating on my taxes... -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 18:43:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 21:08:56 -0500, "Tim Williams" ><tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote: > >>A 6V6GT has much higher hFE, is almost certainly much faster, and is >>capable of dissipating more power, too. I'm not feeling won over, here. >>;-) >>Tim > >Not to worry. Vacuum tubes might be making a comeback in the form of >vacuum channel transistors: ><http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/introducing-the-vacuum-transistor-a-device-made-of-nothing> >The main benefit is low noise: ><http://spectrum.ieee.org/consumer-electronics/audiovideo/the-cool-sound-of-tubes/3/distortion> >(All I know about these is what I've read in various articles). > >Drivel: I still have a tube caddy somewhere. > >Back to lying and cheating on my taxes...
People have been trying to make heater-less tubes for decades now. They have tried carbon nanotubes, microtips, and vacuum diodes as the emitter, but so far all such cathodes destroy themselves quickly. A sharp metal tip can have a high enough local field strength (like, 10^8 v/cm) to fling electrons off into space, but then tends to fling atoms off the tip, too. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing laser drivers and controllers jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 John Larkin wrote:

> > Someone did send me a couple of the tiny tubes that were used in WWII > proximity fuzes, shot out of guns at 20,000 Gs. They helped > enourmously late in the war, against the kamakazie in the Pacific and > against German aircraft over England.
** The name "Kamikaze" was given to Japanese suicide attacks on US navy vessels by manned aircraft late in WW2 while the only German aircraft subjected to proximity fused shells over the UK were unmanned V1 cruise missiles. Proximity fused shells were also used in the "Battle of the Bulge" against German ground troops - having the shells explode while still in the air increased their lethal range greatly. .... Phil
"John Larkin" <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message 
news:kugjia1qnf40imbr8m14erhfb73sd9iqh2@4ax.com...
> Someone did send me a couple of the tiny tubes that were used in WWII > proximity fuzes, shot out of guns at 20,000 Gs. They helped > enourmously late in the war, against the kamakazie in the Pacific and > against German aircraft over England. > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Prox/Prox_Tubes.jpg
Such a shame leaving them float around though -- should do something with them, some rainy day maybe. (Hey, you've got enough of those down in the 'Bay area, right?..) The G-ratings on those are pretty impressive (somewhere around smacking a concrete floor, or... being shot out of a cannon, oddly enough), though I doubt they were rated for much lifetime. Probably, they'd still run just fine as, like.. a cute superregen receiver, at reduced emissions to keep enough life as a display curiosity. Mine* do a pretty fair job in the shortwave band: http://seventransistorlabs.com/Radio_20m/Images/RF_Preamp.jpg *5702s, though probably not authentic mil spec Raytheon. They meet electrical spec, but they aren't rated for (nor have I attempted to test them at..) massive G-loads!
> and I have a krytron! > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Tubes/Kry_Danger.jpg > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Tubes/Kry_Guts.jpg > > These were used to fire the many detonators on the first few > generations of implosion-type plutonium bombs.
Does it glow if you put a few mA into it (at enough voltage to do something)? Would make an interesting product, if you one day find a customer that needs a 10kV+, nanosecond pulse, without the bulk of a saturating magnetic compressor. Probably not reliable enough for test equipment though... let alone the availability. ;-) Speaking of hot pulses, I wonder what those handheld XRF guns have inside 'em. That's something I'd *love* to see Mike get his hands on -- assuming the thing is worth more as a teardown curiosity than on the market, whole. https://www.youtube.com/user/mikeselectricstuff/videos Think he said he *had* one before, but -- the resale value on those things is still quite good, so he wasn't about to trash a cool couple kiloquid doing it. :( Tim -- Seven Transistor Labs Electrical Engineering Consultation Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com
"Phil Allison" <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:e7597f9e-9645-4fb2-ac51-45f559fdb2c8@googlegroups.com...
> > ** The name "Kamikaze" was given to Japanese suicide attacks on US navy > vessels by manned aircraft late in WW2 while the only German aircraft > subjected to proximity fused shells over the UK were unmanned V1 cruise > missiles. > > Proximity fused shells were also used in the "Battle of the Bulge" > against German ground troops - having the shells explode while still in > the air increased their lethal range greatly. >
Yup. As I recall, they were deployed in the Pacific on priority, but they were considered such a valuable secret that they didn't want to use them over open land, until late in the war. Evidently the Germans had indeed begun to piece them together once they were introduced there -- but by then it was too late. Also, for whatever reason, they gave them the technical term "fuze". Tim -- Seven Transistor Labs Electrical Engineering Consultation Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com
"John Larkin" <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message 
news:02kjiapqrcm1e69c1icrsi2rg8kdboinfb@4ax.com...
>>Not to worry. Vacuum tubes might be making a comeback in the form of >>vacuum channel transistors: >><http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/introducing-the-vacuum-transistor-a-device-made-of-nothing> > > People have been trying to make heater-less tubes for decades now. > They have tried carbon nanotubes, microtips, and vacuum diodes as the > emitter, but so far all such cathodes destroy themselves quickly. >
I can't wait until something like a heaterless 300B is available in a TO-247 package. You know, just to piss off those damn audiophools. ;-) But, I suspect we'll be waiting quite a long time for such products. Tim -- Seven Transistor Labs Electrical Engineering Consultation Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com
On 4/11/2015 9:07 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 19:52:45 -0500, "Tim Williams" > <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote: > >> "John Larkin" <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message >> news:tmkiiat9p0df4hrrh13veqce732pmrnjap@4ax.com... >>> Should I use the regular ones, or the cryogenically frozen ones? >>> Bronze or black plates? Looks like I can get them for about $40 each. >> >> Glad you asked! Only authentic name-brand, Premium Quality, NOS, gold >> plated, degaussed, cryogenically treated, virgin-signed types will do. >> >> ... >> >> $40 sounds like a list price; I should think you can find them cheaper (if >> not virgin-blessed), but they are kind of an oddball. >> >> Kind of the 1950s equivalent of having a 60V, 2A "Low Vce(sat)" transistor >> in a SOT-23-6 (dual). Those were pretty neat when Zetex (and others) >> introduced 'em. >> >> Ironically, 6V6s and whatnot are current production, but the modest market >> size and current demand tend to inflate the price over old-stock prices. >> If you wanted cheap tubes (it's a hypothetical, bear with me), the myriad >> oddball TV tubes are still the way to go. >> >> Unbranded subminis can go for pretty cheap, but they aren't much use >> outside of nuclear attacks (ex-JAN stock turns up quite commonly), being >> that they have specs largely similar to a 2N3819 with the drain voltage >> multiplied by 10, plus that pesky heater. >> >> Tim > > Someone did send me a couple of the tiny tubes that were used in WWII > proximity fuzes, shot out of guns at 20,000 Gs. They helped > enourmously late in the war, against the kamakazie in the Pacific and > against German aircraft over England. > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Prox/Prox_Tubes.jpg
Nice. Prox fused shells were also very lethal antipersonnel weapons late in the war, especially in the Battle of the Bulge. Having the shell burst 10 feet in the air versus ten feet underground makes a big difference. It looks like krytrons are off the U.S. Munitions List, but they're still classified as dual-use, so you have to worry about the Commerce Department regulations, if you were ever tempted to take your collection on vacation with you. ;) I always take a scrubbed laptop when I go out of the country, for the same sort of reason. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
On 4/12/2015 12:35 AM, Tim Williams wrote:
> "Phil Allison" <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:e7597f9e-9645-4fb2-ac51-45f559fdb2c8@googlegroups.com... >> >> ** The name "Kamikaze" was given to Japanese suicide attacks on US navy >> vessels by manned aircraft late in WW2 while the only German aircraft >> subjected to proximity fused shells over the UK were unmanned V1 cruise >> missiles. >> >> Proximity fused shells were also used in the "Battle of the Bulge" >> against German ground troops - having the shells explode while still in >> the air increased their lethal range greatly. >> > > Yup. > > As I recall, they were deployed in the Pacific on priority, but they were > considered such a valuable secret that they didn't want to use them over > open land, until late in the war. Evidently the Germans had indeed begun > to piece them together once they were introduced there -- but by then it > was too late. > > Also, for whatever reason, they gave them the technical term "fuze". > > Tim >
'Fuze' is the usual name in ordnance circles, I think. Removing a fuze is quite different from removing a fuse! Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net