Forums

dim bulbs

Started by John Larkin January 25, 2015

More and more bars and restaurants are illuminated by old-fashioned
clear glass long-filament bulbs, running at low temperature. That's
horrendously inefficient. 


-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   laser drivers and controllers

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

"John Larkin" <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message 
news:4qabcal4e3je86v48d1j6852kbhmtmspd5@4ax.com...
> > > More and more bars and restaurants are illuminated by old-fashioned > clear glass long-filament bulbs, running at low temperature. That's > horrendously inefficient. > > > -- > > John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc > picosecond timing laser drivers and controllers > > jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com > http://www.highlandtechnology.com >
I still use an ancient 50 watt desk lamp on my kitchen table because I don't like white LED light or CFLs. It amounts to about 3kwH per month or maybe 33 cents. Using an LED light might save 2/3 of that or 22 cents. --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
On 1/25/2015 7:51 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> More and more bars and restaurants are illuminated by old-fashioned > clear glass long-filament bulbs, running at low temperature. That's > horrendously inefficient.
Depends on how you define efficiency. Many casinos are COVERED in silly lights -- that do nothing besides attract attention to the establishment. Is *that* "efficient"? We run 130V incandescents, here. Last *forever*. An "efficient" CFL's seem to go out every month or so despite the same usage patterns.
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 18:51:51 -0800, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

>More and more bars and restaurants are illuminated by old-fashioned >clear glass long-filament bulbs, running at low temperature. That's >horrendously inefficient.
Sure, but it also saves on the heating bill during winter. A dozen 100 watt incandescent lights has the same heating value as a small electric heater. For summer, they can switch to natural lighting, or LED mood lighting. <https://www.google.com/search?q=restaurant+LED+mood+lighting&tbm=isch> -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 John Larkin wrote:

> More and more bars and restaurants are illuminated by old-fashioned > clear glass long-filament bulbs, running at low temperature. That's > horrendously inefficient. >
** But highly efficient at getting male patrons to fill women with alcohol. ... Phil
John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
> More and more bars and restaurants are illuminated by old-fashioned > clear glass long-filament bulbs, running at low temperature. That's > horrendously inefficient.
I think part of is that nobody understands what color temperature is - they install LEDs or CFLs, the lighting "looks weird", so they go back to incandescents. I think the color temperature should be printed in big letters on the front of the package, like the lumens, watts, and hours are now. Maybe it would also help if the lamp manufacturers, lamp suppliers, power company, CARB, or somebody would put on a road show for bar and restaurant owners - "how to pick efficient lamps without making your place look weird". I ate at a barbecue place here that was completely illuminated by LED lamps - the "incandescent replacement" kind with a screw base, like a CFL. They must have bought them the day that they came on the market, because there was a weird blue cast to the light. It produced an odd effect in the restaurant. The food was just fine but it felt a little strange in there. I have been in other public places that used CFLs, but obviously not all the same part number; some were blue-y and some were yellow-y. The overall effect is usually not as bad as the above BBQ place, though. Sometimes you even see different colors with large installations of linear fluorescent lamps, but I don't see that as often. I think such places tend to have a facilities person that always orders the same lamp part number. For a while, Home Depot and Lowe's would have one of those "dressing room" type three-lamp fixtures wired up near the CFL display, with three different color temperature CFLs in it, and a sign explaining which was which. I haven't seen that as much lately. Downstairs at Ikea, where you can grab lamps off the shelf, they have regular incandescent, halogen incandescent, CFL, and LED lamps lit up side by side, so you can see the difference. Since the lamps are in little plexiglass boxes, they don't have the higher-wattage halogens lit up. Some of the displays have dimmers that you can play with. Some places might want the ability to dim the lamps. You can get CFLs that will dim, but the range isn't as good as incandescent. I think I've seen dimmable LEDs, and I would expect them to work better than CFLs, but I've never tried one. One thing I think I know is that California now requires weird sockets (bi-pin twist-lock) in light fixtures, at least for residential. The idea is to prevent anyone ever installing an incandescent. In theory, only CFLs or LEDs are available with the weird base. In practice, I suspect adapters are readily available, or people just replace the weird sockets with normal ones. (They even sell the weird-base CFLs around here, with lower selection and higher prices as compared to normal ones.) I don't know if this affects commercial or not; part of the argument might be that the fixtures that match the decor only come with screw-base sockets. Some people may be afraid of the mercury in a CFL. LED lights might solve that objection. Matt Roberds
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 08:04:20 +0000 (UTC), mroberds@att.net wrote:

>John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >> More and more bars and restaurants are illuminated by old-fashioned >> clear glass long-filament bulbs, running at low temperature. That's >> horrendously inefficient. > >I think part of is that nobody understands what color temperature is - >they install LEDs or CFLs, the lighting "looks weird", so they go back >to incandescents. I think the color temperature should be printed in >big letters on the front of the package, like the lumens, watts, and >hours are now.
Not only color temperature but also the light intensity matters how you feel about it. You need at least 300 -1000 lx in order to feel comfortable with any color temperature. Going to lower intensities, reddish colors are more preferable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruithof_curve
On 26/01/2015 02:51, John Larkin wrote:
> > > More and more bars and restaurants are illuminated by old-fashioned > clear glass long-filament bulbs, running at low temperature. That's > horrendously inefficient. > >
A couple of pubs nearby have recently re-opened after a refit. They're festooned with these - long filaments, some straight, some twisted and all running orange. Like this... http://www.glasgowguild.com/shop/image/cache/data/bulbs/cat-bulbs-large-770x300.jpg They seem to be mainly supplemental lighting. Maybe there's a law of conservation of luminous efficiency - as LEDs and CFLs become more widespread, these 'vintage' lamps must be used to maintain an average. Cheers -- Syd
Hi Matt,

On 1/26/2015 1:04 AM, mroberds@att.net wrote:
> John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote: >> More and more bars and restaurants are illuminated by old-fashioned >> clear glass long-filament bulbs, running at low temperature. That's >> horrendously inefficient. > > I think part of is that nobody understands what color temperature is - > they install LEDs or CFLs, the lighting "looks weird", so they go back > to incandescents. I think the color temperature should be printed in > big letters on the front of the package, like the lumens, watts, and > hours are now.
+1 Even so, folks have a hard time trying to understand what a particular lighting effect will look like in *their* home. Esp when seen in the context of all the "ambient" flourescent lighting in most commercial establishments.
> I ate at a barbecue place here that was completely illuminated by LED > lamps - the "incandescent replacement" kind with a screw base, like a > CFL. They must have bought them the day that they came on the market, > because there was a weird blue cast to the light. It produced an odd > effect in the restaurant. The food was just fine but it felt a little > strange in there.
A friend gave me a case of bluish LED lamps some time ago. I tried them in the kitchen. They were fine during daylight hours (where the yellow from daylight could help wash them out a bit). But, as evening approached, they made the food look really "odd". Unappetizing. It was actually hard to prepare some of the meals as the cues you were used to receiving from color (e.g., cooking meat) were terribly distorted.
> Some places might want the ability to dim the lamps. You can get CFLs > that will dim, but the range isn't as good as incandescent. I think > I've seen dimmable LEDs, and I would expect them to work better than > CFLs, but I've never tried one.
This is our problem, here. Currently, the only lamps that are *not* on a dimmer are the bulk of the kitchen area (as I tend to want them "all on" when preparing food and "all off" when no longer present in the kitchen). We tried some dimmable CFL "flood lamps" but they were lousy! Minimum output is way too bright! We've been waiting for them to fail so we can once again replace them with incandescents (which have a delightful range of output intensities!) I tried the aforementioned LED lamps and noticed no difference in output. Obviously, there must be some accommodation made in the lamp (or dimmer) for these to be effective. (and I'm not keen on buying dozens of LED lamps just to "*save* money" -- esp if they end up having the problems that have plagued the CFLs!) I *may* opt to move them into the garage (no need to dim the lights in there!) but would require replacing the flourescent lamp fixtures there. Not high on my priorities!
On Monday, January 26, 2015 at 8:04:56 AM UTC, mrob...@att.net wrote:

> One thing I think I know is that California now requires weird sockets > (bi-pin twist-lock) in light fixtures, at least for residential. The > idea is to prevent anyone ever installing an incandescent. In theory, > only CFLs or LEDs are available with the weird base. In practice, I > suspect adapters are readily available, or people just replace the > weird sockets with normal ones. (They even sell the weird-base CFLs > around here, with lower selection and higher prices as compared to > normal ones.) I don't know if this affects commercial or not; part of > the argument might be that the fixtures that match the decor only come > with screw-base sockets.
We had similar in UK for a while. It simply became standard practice to install new builds with the special lampholders then take them out once the paperwork was done. It achieved nothing but waste time & money. The authorities saw sense in the end & they're no longer required. NT