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Truck Starter/solenoid/battery help

Started by amdx September 25, 2014
On 9/27/2014 6:10 PM, amdx wrote:
> On 9/27/2014 2:02 PM, rickman wrote: >> On 9/27/2014 12:03 PM, Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. wrote: >>> In article <m057p5$e6u$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says... >>>> I can't remember, can you probe the point between the solenoid and the >>>> starter? >>>> >>>> I have a problem with my truck now. Something is wrong with the >>>> electrics. When I put the headlights on the voltage will drop and >>>> after >>>> a few minutes the battery warning light comes on. I expect if I didn't >>>> turn them off the engine would eventually die. Without the headlights >>>> it seems to be able to power everything ok. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> >>> >>> That's usually signs of a bad alternator, a shorted diode most likely. >> >> I was thinking it was likely the alternator... or the regulator, but I >> believe they build the regulators *in* the alternator these days, no? >> >> Another symptom is I hear a whine on the radio when I turn on the >> lights. Sounds to me like one phase of the alternator is not working. >> I'll have to swap it out. Only $133 for a rebuilt one. >> > Young man, in my day it was $22 for an alternator. > Mikek
Hmmm, in *your* day are you sure it wasn't a generator? ;)
> PS, I remember selling gas at 18.9 cents a gallon. > > I also remember my dads 51 Chevrolet pickup truck with the broken fuel > gauge. He would buy $1.00 of gas every time he drove it. One day I was > with him and he couldn't get the full $1 in the tank, we had quite a > giggle! > It had over 300k miles on it, and he painted it with a paint brush > under the neighbors shade tree. :-)
I have a friend like that. He bought a truck in 72 and just stopped driving it a very few years ago when rust had so badly eroded the chassis that he felt it was no longer worth repairing... and this guy had been a welder most of his life so that was saying something. I remember going to see him one day and he was making an exhaust pipe for his brother. He was turning the lip where it would mate to the exhaust header. I was pretty impressed. If he didn't have a tool he needed, he would make one. -- Rick
On 9/27/2014 3:02 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 9/27/2014 12:03 PM, Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. wrote: >> In article <m057p5$e6u$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says... >>> I can't remember, can you probe the point between the solenoid and the >>> starter? >>> >>> I have a problem with my truck now. Something is wrong with the >>> electrics. When I put the headlights on the voltage will drop and after >>> a few minutes the battery warning light comes on. I expect if I didn't >>> turn them off the engine would eventually die. Without the headlights >>> it seems to be able to power everything ok. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Rick >>> >>> >> >> That's usually signs of a bad alternator, a shorted diode most likely. > > I was thinking it was likely the alternator... or the regulator, but I > believe they build the regulators *in* the alternator these days, no? > > Another symptom is I hear a whine on the radio when I turn on the > lights. Sounds to me like one phase of the alternator is not working. > I'll have to swap it out. Only $133 for a rebuilt one.
I looked online for a rebuild kit for my alternator and I did not find any. eBay lists a couple for the 4 cyl engine in this truck, but not my 3.4 V-6. That rebuild kit didn't include the diodes anyway, only bearings and brushes. I guess I'll be stuck with buying a rebuilt one. Too bad, I would like to tear one apart. -- Rick
On 9/26/2014 9:34 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 9/26/2014 9:04 PM, amdx wrote: >> On 9/26/2014 6:44 PM, Jasen Betts wrote: >>> On 2014-09-25, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote: >>>> On 9/25/2014 4:02 PM, RobertMacy wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 09:56:44 -0700, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> ...snip TOO much!.... >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I had this exact, same symptom with my auto, 1972 classic. >>>>> intermittent >>>>> start, >>>>> >>>>> never got to measure but discovered that there was a build up of crud >>>>> between the battery cable and the clamp to the battery cable that >>>>> caused >>>>> the whole problem. if not at battery, somewhere else along the path? >>>> >>>> Except that, when the starter fails to run I still have 11.9 >>>> volts on >>>> the input side of the solenoid, when the starter does run the voltage >>>> drops to 10.7 volts. Which I suggest is very close to battery voltage >>>> under starter load. >>> >>> It could still be a fault in the branch of the battery cable that >>> goes to the starter. often the rest of the electrics are connected to >>> the branch that goes to the alternator. >>> >> . >> >> I don't see it that way. There is a cable directly from the battery >> to the solenoid. When the starter motor turns the voltage is 10.6v, when >> it doesn't turn it is 11.8v. If the problem was in the "branch of the >> battery cable that goes to the starter" then I wouldn't have 11.8v on >> the solenoid. It has to be after the 11.8v point or else the starter >> would run on 11.8v. >> If the problem was a bad connection in the "branch of the battery >> cable that goes to the starter" the all the voltage would drop across >> that bad connection. 1ohm 0.05ohm >> It would be like this series circuit +12v----^^^------^^^----grd >> The 1 ohm represents the bad connection and would have 11.43v across it, >> that leaves 0.57 volts across the 0.05 ohm that represents the starter. >> >> It must have worked all day today, no complaints from the wife and she >> was out with it all day. > > There are TWO cables to the starter. The other one is from the ground > of the battery and goes to some bolt on the engine. If this one is > intermittently bad you will see exactly the same symptom as a bad > contact unless you can probe the connection between the solenoid and the > starter. > > 0.01ohm 0.05ohm 1ohm > +12v----^^^------^^^------^^^----Battery Neg > solenoid starter bad cable connection >
Yes, I see that would give me the same voltage measurement. I'll keep that in mind if the problem resurfaces.
> I can't remember, can you probe the point between the solenoid and the > starter? >
I probably can, but it will be an non sightable connection, that connection is hidden between the solenoid and block. Thanks, Mikek
"rickman" <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:m091kc$e6h$1@dont-email.me...
> On 9/27/2014 3:02 PM, rickman wrote: >> On 9/27/2014 12:03 PM, Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. wrote: >>> In article <m057p5$e6u$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says... >>>> I can't remember, can you probe the point between the solenoid and the >>>> starter? >>>> >>>> I have a problem with my truck now. Something is wrong with the >>>> electrics. When I put the headlights on the voltage will drop and >>>> after >>>> a few minutes the battery warning light comes on. I expect if I didn't >>>> turn them off the engine would eventually die. Without the headlights >>>> it seems to be able to power everything ok. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> >>> >>> That's usually signs of a bad alternator, a shorted diode most likely. >> >> I was thinking it was likely the alternator... or the regulator, but I >> believe they build the regulators *in* the alternator these days, no? >> >> Another symptom is I hear a whine on the radio when I turn on the >> lights. Sounds to me like one phase of the alternator is not working. >> I'll have to swap it out. Only $133 for a rebuilt one. > > I looked online for a rebuild kit for my alternator and I did not find > any. eBay lists a couple for the 4 cyl engine in this truck, but not my > 3.4 V-6. That rebuild kit didn't include the diodes anyway, only bearings > and brushes. I guess I'll be stuck with buying a rebuilt one. Too bad, I > would like to tear one apart. > > -- >
What is the core charge? How much is an education worth?
On 9/28/2014 3:04 PM, Tom Miller wrote:
> > "rickman" <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:m091kc$e6h$1@dont-email.me... >> On 9/27/2014 3:02 PM, rickman wrote: >>> On 9/27/2014 12:03 PM, Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. wrote: >>>> In article <m057p5$e6u$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says... >>>>> I can't remember, can you probe the point between the solenoid and the >>>>> starter? >>>>> >>>>> I have a problem with my truck now. Something is wrong with the >>>>> electrics. When I put the headlights on the voltage will drop and >>>>> after >>>>> a few minutes the battery warning light comes on. I expect if I >>>>> didn't >>>>> turn them off the engine would eventually die. Without the headlights >>>>> it seems to be able to power everything ok. >>>>> >>>>> Rick >>>> >>>> That's usually signs of a bad alternator, a shorted diode most >>>> likely. >>> >>> I was thinking it was likely the alternator... or the regulator, but I >>> believe they build the regulators *in* the alternator these days, no? >>> >>> Another symptom is I hear a whine on the radio when I turn on the >>> lights. Sounds to me like one phase of the alternator is not working. >>> I'll have to swap it out. Only $133 for a rebuilt one. >> >> I looked online for a rebuild kit for my alternator and I did not find >> any. eBay lists a couple for the 4 cyl engine in this truck, but not >> my 3.4 V-6. That rebuild kit didn't include the diodes anyway, only >> bearings and brushes. I guess I'll be stuck with buying a rebuilt >> one. Too bad, I would like to tear one apart. >> >> -- >> > What is the core charge? How much is an education worth?
Pretty steep, $80 I think. Why? Education is fine, but if I can't find the parts to repair it with, what can I expect to learn? I think the diodes might be in the regulator module which may be inside the alternator, not sure. They show a picture of the regulator, but don't indicate where it fits into the bigger picture. It could still be external to the alternator, but if so it likely doesn't include the diodes. The bottom line is I need to fix my truck tomorrow. -- Rick
On 2014-09-28, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9/27/2014 3:02 PM, rickman wrote: > > I looked online for a rebuild kit for my alternator and I did not find > any. eBay lists a couple for the 4 cyl engine in this truck, but not my > 3.4 V-6. That rebuild kit didn't include the diodes anyway, only > bearings and brushes. I guess I'll be stuck with buying a rebuilt one. > Too bad, I would like to tear one apart.
Go to an auto elecric supplies place, they'll have diodes. -- umop apisdn --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
On 2014-09-29, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9/28/2014 3:04 PM, Tom Miller wrote:
> > Pretty steep, $80 I think. Why? Education is fine, but if I can't find > the parts to repair it with, what can I expect to learn?
> I think the diodes might be in the regulator module which may be inside > the alternator,
no, they'll be in the rectifier module which is often inside the altenator. (if there's a fat cable from the altenator to the battery)
> The bottom line is I need to fix my truck tomorrow.
how fixed do you need it? if you're not using the headlights just charging it daily may be enough until you can rebuild the altenator. you'll want fan and water pump of course, which may mean you need to put the altenator back before it's fixed. -- umop apisdn --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
See S.E.B.
This :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgGWQ02GtEk

I might have to stand corrected. 

Don't discount youtube as a resource. I do't know why people post this stuff but I have found a couple of car things on it that worked.
On 9/29/2014 12:49 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
> On 2014-09-28, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 9/27/2014 3:02 PM, rickman wrote: >> >> I looked online for a rebuild kit for my alternator and I did not find >> any. eBay lists a couple for the 4 cyl engine in this truck, but not my >> 3.4 V-6. That rebuild kit didn't include the diodes anyway, only >> bearings and brushes. I guess I'll be stuck with buying a rebuilt one. >> Too bad, I would like to tear one apart. > > Go to an auto elecric supplies place, they'll have diodes.
Yeah, I typed "auto elecric supplies place" into Google and didn't find much. I did find NAPA who has the rectifier. They want $133 for an alternator or $144 for the rectifier... I expect I'll just get an alternator. -- Rick