CMOS Divide by 5.9 Cicuit

On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 14:14:07 -0700, Ken Knowles <kknowles@endor.com> wrote:

> ...snip....
> I am sorry my orignal explanation was unclear to some readers.
>
> It is easy to generate 32Hz with a 32,768 clock crystal and a CD4060.
>
> I then would like to produce from this four or five frequencies that
> all differ by the same number of Hz.
>
> To take a simple example, if that was 4Hz I would get 28, 24, 20,
> 16Hz, and so on.
>
> Since coding is not one of my skills, can this be done with logic
> IC's? Maybe something involving sums and differences.
>
> I could also use a separate generator for each frequency, but was
> hoping for a more efficient method, if there is one.
>
> Ken Knowles

Still not real clear.

since a crystal is a crystal and soundcards use crystal clock, you could  
directly drive a soundcard generate your tone(s) individually or all at  
once.

You can get really fine steps that way

On 20/08/14 23:14, Ken Knowles wrote:
> On 20 Aug 2014 08:51:01 GMT, "Peter Heitzer"
> <peter.heitzer@rz.uni-regensburg.de> wrote:
>
>> Ken Knowles <kknowles@endor.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a CD4060 that uses a 32,768Hz crystal to generate a 32Hz square
>>> wave.
>>
>>> I would like to divide this down several times in 5.9Hz increments,
>>> while keeping the duty cycle at 50%.
>>
>>> What would be the most straightforward method, preferably keeping in
>>> CMOS?
>> Using a &#4294967295;C. 32 kHz are rather low, so a &#4294967295;C could do the task even
>> in software using "bit bang" method.
>
>
> I am sorry my orignal explanation was unclear to some readers.
>
> It is easy to generate 32Hz with a 32,768 clock crystal and a CD4060.
>
> I then would like to produce from this four or five frequencies that
> all differ by the same number of Hz.
>
> To take a simple example, if that was 4Hz I would get 28, 24, 20,
> 16Hz, and so on.
>
> Since coding is not one of my skills, can this be done with logic
> IC's? Maybe something involving sums and differences.
>
> I could also use a separate generator for each frequency, but was
> hoping for a more efficient method, if there is one.
>
> Ken Knowles

So, in clear language, you'd like to create 32Hz, 26.1Hz, 20.2Hz,
14.3Hz, etc, down to ???, from one 32768Hz source, all with 50%
duty cycle. That's probably not trivial in old-fashioned logic,
but a multiple DDS algorithm in a tiny microcontroller could come
pretty close with relative ease.

Do you mind telling us why you want to do so? Often the *real*
problem is easier to solve that someone's weird idea of a
solution.

Jeroen Belleman

On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 23:45:12 +0200, jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:


>So, in clear language, you'd like to create 32Hz, 26.1Hz, 20.2Hz,
>14.3Hz, etc, down to ???, from one 32768Hz source, all with 50%
>duty cycle. That's probably not trivial in old-fashioned logic,
>but a multiple DDS algorithm in a tiny microcontroller could come
>pretty close with relative ease.
>

Since I don't have coding skills, it seems the opnly viable solutuion
is to build a separate generator for each frequency.

Thanks to all for the helpful suggestions.

Ken Knowles

On 20 Aug 2014 08:51:01 GMT, "Peter Heitzer"
<peter.heitzer@rz.uni-regensburg.de> wrote:


I think I may have figured out a way to get something close to the
result I am looking for.

The CD4060 with a 32,768Hz crystal will output a 32, and 8Hz
squarewave.

If I filter these into sine waves, what is the procedure for having
them along with their sum and difference frequencies all together in
one signal?

IOW to end up with a repetitive arbitrary waveform comprised of 40,
32, 27  and 8Hz.

Ken Knowles

On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 19:50:12 -0700, Ken Knowles <kknowles@endor.com> wrote:

> I think I may have figured out a way to get something close to the
> result I am looking for.
>
> The CD4060 with a 32,768Hz crystal will output a 32, and 8Hz
> squarewave.
>
> If I filter these into sine waves, what is the procedure for having
> them along with their sum and difference frequencies all together in
> one signal?
>
> IOW to end up with a repetitive arbitrary waveform comprised of 40,
> 32, 27  and 8Hz.
>
> Ken Knowles

take 32 and 'multiply' it 8 in something like a MC1496

if done well, that will produce 40, 32, 27, and 8

a MUCH simpler way is to drive your stupid soundcard with a .wav  
repetitively. use the standard 48kS/s to be an EXACT multiple, use octave  
to make the .wav file and you can get equal amplitude ANY phase you want,  
complete control and not even have to breadboard anything. All these tools  
are FREE to work with, too.

On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 20:03:32 -0700, RobertMacy <robert.a.macy@gmail.com>  
wrote:

> ....snip....
> if done well, that will produce 40, 32, 27, and 8
>
arrrggg! that was NOT handwritten, just NO excuse!  not 27, but 24

>"
Since I don't have coding skills, it seems the opnly viable solutuion 
is to build a separate generator for each frequency. "

Are you measuring output from subwoofers ?

If you are trying to get better than the pink noise method, you have to filter the input, to where it does not pick up harmnics of the frequency put into the woofer.

If the application is something else, sorry to waste your time. 

but I did not notice the exact purpose of this device. Maybe you got your reasons. 

Ken Knowles <kknowles@endor.com> wrote in 
news:c2nav950s8g1uagi34vhire9jofg0v3buk@4ax.com:

> On 20 Aug 2014 08:51:01 GMT, "Peter Heitzer"
> <peter.heitzer@rz.uni-regensburg.de> wrote:
> 
> 
> I think I may have figured out a way to get something close to the
> result I am looking for.
> 
> The CD4060 with a 32,768Hz crystal will output a 32, and 8Hz
> squarewave.
> 
> If I filter these into sine waves, what is the procedure for having
> them along with their sum and difference frequencies all together in
> one signal?
> 
> IOW to end up with a repetitive arbitrary waveform comprised of 40,
> 32, 27  and 8Hz.
> 
> Ken Knowles

Completely the wrong approach.  

Assuming it is *ESSENTIAL* to lock the frequency to the 32768 Hz crystal, 
I'd start by squaring it up and doubling the frequency with a RC delay 
and an XOR.  Then use a programmable divider chip (or rather chips as 
you'll probaby need to cascade them) to get pulses at a rate as close as 
possible to N*11.8 Hz.

Finaly a flipflop divides by two to get a good square wave.

If you dont need to start with 32768 Hz, its much more accurate if you 
use a significantly higher crystal frequency - at the expense of needing 
a longer divider chain and more bits for the division ratio to program 
it.

You need some way of storing the division ratio which could be programmed 
with a hard wired diode matrix + a 10 way rotary switch (for n=1 to 10) 
to ground one column at a time of the matrix, with the rows giving the 
binary division ratio.

Ditch the 4060, its no help at all. The oscillator can be built from the 
spare gates on the XOR.

However all this grief and considerable expense could be avoided if you 
can call in any favours to get someone to write a suitable program for a 
small PIC and program one for you.  
-- 
Ian Malcolm.   London, ENGLAND.  (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED) 
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk 
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & >32K emails --> NUL

On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 7:04:14 PM UTC-7, Ken Knowles wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 23:45:12 +0200, jeroen Belleman
> 
> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

> >So, in clear language, you'd like to create 32Hz, 26.1Hz, 20.2Hz, 
> >14.3Hz, etc, down to ???, from one 32768Hz source, all with 50%
> >duty cycle. That's probably not trivial in old-fashioned logic,
 
> Since I don't have coding skills, it seems the [only viable solution ]
> is to build a separate generator for each frequency.

The problem is, 32 Hz has a period of 0.312500 seconds, which is
1024 'ticks' of a 32768 Hz clock.  And 26.1 Hz has a period of
.03831417625 seconds, which is 1255.478927.. ticks of that clock.  There's
no digital way to directly generate frequencies without approximations,
unless the frequencies of interest line up 'just right' with your digital
clock.

"Ken Knowles" <kknowles@endor.com> wrote in message 
news:c2nav950s8g1uagi34vhire9jofg0v3buk@4ax.com...
> If I filter these into sine waves, what is the procedure for having
> them along with their sum and difference frequencies all together in
> one signal?
>
> IOW to end up with a repetitive arbitrary waveform comprised of 40,
> 32, 27  and 8Hz.

I hope you meant 24, not 27.

This is NOT a digital composition.  A roughly square waveform may be 
possible that contains arbitrarily few lower harmonics (e.g., a magic 
sinewave approximation), but I doubt it is near trivial to compose from 
the source frequencies alone.

You've also suddenly changed your requirement, as I don't see how 40, 32, 
24 (or 27) or 8 have anything whatsoever to do with 5.9 as a subtractive 
or divisive factor.

Perhaps if you could tell us a little about the underlying enigmatic 
purpose, we could suggest something both better suited and easier to 
construct.

Tim

-- 
Seven Transistor Labs
Electrical Engineering Consultation
Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com