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Spice problems

Started by Robert Baer August 19, 2014
   Firstly, only the latest LTSpice IV is available,and sources insist 
only WinXP "or better" will run it.
   So tried to get old SwitcherCAD III; unobtanium.
   Said, WTF, loaded the LTSpice IV exe, ran it; looks OK - no errors 
anyway.

   BUT I have this National Semiconductor Spice file and it barfs on it 
"Unknown schematic syntax .SUBCKT LM185/27C 99 2" and do not knowhow to 
fix that.
   Copy of listing below (260 lines).
* MANUFACTURERS PART NO. = LM185BYH/883 (NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR)
* TYPE: IC_LINEAR
* SUBTYPE: REFERENCE
* THIS FILE CONTAINS 3 PRE-RAD SPICE2G.6 COMPATIBLE MODELS AT VARIOUS TEMPS
* OF THE LM185 TWO TERMINAL 1.2V REF.
* PARAMETER MODELS EXTRACTED FROM MEASURED DATA
* CREATION DATE : 07-02-90
*
*****CAUTION: THESE MODELS ARE ONLY GOOD FOR THE TEMPERATURE THEY WERE
* DEVELOPED AT.
*
* RAD: PRERAD
* TEMP= 27
*
*** NOTE: TRR MEASUREMENT WAS MADE @ 10MA/10MA/2.5MA
*
*** CAUTION: THE MEASURED TRR AND THE PSPICE CKT. SIMULATED TRR ARE 
DIFFERENT
* THIS COULD POTENTIALLY LEAD TO ERRORS IN CKT. SIMULATIONS IF USED
* AS A RECTIFIER OR IN SWITCHING APPLICATIONS.
*
* MEASURED TRR = 1.03US, SIMULATED TRR = 720.4NS.
*
*
.SUBCKT LM185/27C 99 2
D1 2 99 DLEAK
R1 2 99 1E12
R2 6 99 0.12
M1 2 2 6 8 MOS1
R3 6 8 1E12
D2 99 2 DFOR
.MODEL DLEAK D (
+ IS = 2E-6
+ RS = 34.8744396
+ N = 53
+ TT = 0
+ CJO = 0
+ VJ = 1
+ M = .5
+ EG = 1.11
+ XTI = 3
+ KF = 0
+ AF = 1
+ FC = .5
+ BV = 1E5
+ IBV = .001
+ )
.MODEL MOS1 NMOS (
+ LEVEL = 1
+ VTO = 2.512
+ KP = 1E7
+ GAMMA = 0
+ PHI = .6
+ LAMBDA = 0
+ RD = 0
+ RS = 0
+ CBD = 0
+ CBS = 0
+ IS = 1E-14
+ PB = .8
+ CGSO = 0
+ CGDO = 0
+ CGBO = 0
+ RSH = 0
+ CJ = 0
+ MJ = .5
+ CJSW = 0
+ MJSW = .33
+ JS = 1E-08
+ TOX = .0000001
+ NSS = 0
+ NFS = 0
+ TPG = 1
+ XJ = 0
+ LD = 0
+ UO = 600
+ UCRIT = 10000
+ UEXP = 0
+ UTRA = 0
+ VMAX = 0
+ NEFF = 1
+ XQC = 1
+ KF = 0
+ AF = 1
+ FC = .5
+ DELTA = 0
+ THETA = 0
+ ETA = 0
+ KAPPA = .2
+ )
.MODEL DFOR D (
+ IS = 5.173495E-9
+ RS = 13.7420803
+ N = 2.0242147
+ TT = 9.74E-7
+ CJO = 7.094324E-11
+ VJ = 0.6122206
+ M = 0.2691849
+ EG = 1.11
+ XTI = 3
+ KF = 0
+ AF = 1
+ FC = 0.5
+ BV = 1E5
+ IBV = .001
+ )
.ENDS LM185/27C
*
*$
* MANUFACTURERS PART NO. = LM185BYH/883 (NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR)
* TYPE: IC_LINEAR
* SUBTYPE: REFERENCE
* THIS FILE CONTAINS A PRE-RAD TEMPERATURE DEPENDENT SPICE2G.6 COMPATIBLE
* MODEL OF THE LM185BYH ADJUSTABLE 1.2-5.3V REF
* CREATION DATE : 11-28-90
*
*
* LM185 ADJUSTABLE VOLTAGE REFERENCE "MACROMODEL" SUBCIRCUIT
* THIS IS A TRANSISTOR LEVEL MODEL WHICH USES DEFAULT TRANSISTOR VALUES
* (EBER'S MOLL) AND FOLLOWS THE SCHEMATIC OF THE NATIONAL DATA SHEET. Q10
* (ONE OF THE NPN TRANSISTORS IN THE BANDGAP REFERENCE SECTION) HAS A 
SCALING
* FACTOR OF 10. THIS MODEL CAN BE USED WITH A .TEMP CARD. IT ACCURATELY
* SIMULATES CHANGE IN VREF WITH CHANGE IN CURRENT, ZOUT, AND IFEEDBACK.
*
***** CAUTION: THE MODEL EXCEEDS THE PRODUCT SPEC LIMIT FOR VREF AT 25 C BY
* 2 MV AND AT 125 C BY 27 MV FOR IR = 8 UA AND IR = 100 UA.
*
* SINCE THIS IS A TRANSISTOR LEVEL MODEL(WITH 13 TRANSISTORS), CIRCUIT
* SIMULATION TIME IS INCREASED.
*
* CONNECTIONS: PLUS
* | ADJUST
* | | MINUS
* | | |
.SUBCKT LM185 1 5 6
*
R6 1 2 200E3
R7 2 3 50E3
R8 3 4 300E3
Q14 6 5 4 PNPNOM
Q13 7 7 1 PNPNOM
Q10 7 3 8 NPNNOM 10
Q9 8 12 6 NPNNOM
Q12 9 7 1 PNPNOM
Q11 9 2 8 NPNNOM
R5 1 12 600E3
Q8 12 12 6 NPNNOM
Q7 13 9 1 PNPNOM
Q6 13 12 6 NPNNOM
R2 1 14 7.5E3
Q4 15 15 14 PNPNOM
Q5 15 13 16 NPNNOM
R3 16 6 500
Q3 17 15 1 PNPNOM
R1 17 6 100E3
Q1 1 17 6 NPNNOM
C1 17 15 20E-12
C2 13 9 20E-12
D1 6 1 DZENER
.MODEL NPNNOM NPN(
+ IS = 1E-16
+ BF = 100
+ NF = 1
+ VAF = 9.9999E+13
+ IKF = 9.9999E+13
+ ISE = 0
+ NE = 1.5
+ BR = 1
+ NR = 1
+ VAR = 9.9999E+13
+ IKR = 9.9999E+13
+ ISC = 0
+ NC = 2
+ RB = 0
+ IRB = 9.9999E+13
+ RBM = 0
+ RE = 0
+ RC = 0
+ CJE = 0
+ VJE = .75
+ MJE = .33
+ TF = 0
+ XTF = 0
+ VTF = 9.9999E+13
+ ITF = 0
+ PTF = 0
+ CJC = 0
+ VJC = .75
+ MJC = .33
+ XCJC = 1
+ TR = 0
+ CJS = 0
+ VJS = .75
+ MJS = 0
+ XTB = 0
+ EG = 1.11
+ XTI = 3
+ KF = 0
+ AF = 1
+ FC = .5
+ )
.MODEL PNPNOM PNP(
+ IS = 1E-16
+ BF = 100
+ NF = 1
+ VAF = 9.9999E+13
+ IKF = 9.9999E+13
+ ISE = 0
+ NE = 1.5
+ BR = 1
+ NR = 1
+ VAR = 9.9999E+13
+ IKR = 9.9999E+13
+ ISC = 0
+ NC = 2
+ RB = 0
+ IRB = 9.9999E+13
+ RBM = 0
+ RE = 0
+ RC = 0
+ CJE = 0
+ VJE = .75
+ MJE = .33
+ TF = 0
+ XTF = 0
+ VTF = 9.9999E+13
+ ITF = 0
+ PTF = 0
+ CJC = 0
+ VJC = .75
+ MJC = .33
+ XCJC = 1
+ TR = 0
+ CJS = 0
+ VJS = .75
+ MJS = 0
+ XTB = 0
+ EG = 1.11
+ XTI = 3
+ KF = 0
+ AF = 1
+ FC = .5
+ )
.MODEL DZENER D(
+ IS = 1E-14
+ RS = 0
+ N = 1
+ TT = 0
+ CJO = 0
+ VJ = 1
+ M = .5
+ EG = 1.11
+ XTI = 3
+ KF = 0
+ AF = 1
+ FC = .5
+ BV = 6.3
+ IBV = .001
+ )
.ENDS LM185
*$

On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 18:20:05 -0700, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

> Firstly, only the latest LTSpice IV is available,and sources insist >only WinXP "or better" will run it. > So tried to get old SwitcherCAD III; unobtanium. > Said, WTF, loaded the LTSpice IV exe, ran it; looks OK - no errors >anyway. > > BUT I have this National Semiconductor Spice file and it barfs on it >"Unknown schematic syntax .SUBCKT LM185/27C 99 2" and do not knowhow to >fix that.
It's not a _schematic_ file, it's a _library_.
> Copy of listing below (260 lines). >* MANUFACTURERS PART NO. = LM185BYH/883 (NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR) >* TYPE: IC_LINEAR >* SUBTYPE: REFERENCE >* THIS FILE CONTAINS 3 PRE-RAD SPICE2G.6 COMPATIBLE MODELS AT VARIOUS TEMPS >* OF THE LM185 TWO TERMINAL 1.2V REF. >* PARAMETER MODELS EXTRACTED FROM MEASURED DATA >* CREATION DATE : 07-02-90 >* >*****CAUTION: THESE MODELS ARE ONLY GOOD FOR THE TEMPERATURE THEY WERE >* DEVELOPED AT. >* >* RAD: PRERAD >* TEMP= 27 >* >*** NOTE: TRR MEASUREMENT WAS MADE @ 10MA/10MA/2.5MA >* >*** CAUTION: THE MEASURED TRR AND THE PSPICE CKT. SIMULATED TRR ARE >DIFFERENT >* THIS COULD POTENTIALLY LEAD TO ERRORS IN CKT. SIMULATIONS IF USED >* AS A RECTIFIER OR IN SWITCHING APPLICATIONS. >* >* MEASURED TRR = 1.03US, SIMULATED TRR = 720.4NS. >* >* >.SUBCKT LM185/27C 99 2 >D1 2 99 DLEAK >R1 2 99 1E12 >R2 6 99 0.12 >M1 2 2 6 8 MOS1 >R3 6 8 1E12 >D2 99 2 DFOR >.MODEL DLEAK D ( >+ IS = 2E-6 >+ RS = 34.8744396 >+ N = 53 >+ TT = 0 >+ CJO = 0 >+ VJ = 1 >+ M = .5 >+ EG = 1.11 >+ XTI = 3 >+ KF = 0 >+ AF = 1 >+ FC = .5 >+ BV = 1E5 >+ IBV = .001 >+ ) >.MODEL MOS1 NMOS ( >+ LEVEL = 1 >+ VTO = 2.512 >+ KP = 1E7 >+ GAMMA = 0 >+ PHI = .6 >+ LAMBDA = 0 >+ RD = 0 >+ RS = 0 >+ CBD = 0 >+ CBS = 0 >+ IS = 1E-14 >+ PB = .8 >+ CGSO = 0 >+ CGDO = 0 >+ CGBO = 0 >+ RSH = 0 >+ CJ = 0 >+ MJ = .5 >+ CJSW = 0 >+ MJSW = .33 >+ JS = 1E-08 >+ TOX = .0000001 >+ NSS = 0 >+ NFS = 0 >+ TPG = 1 >+ XJ = 0 >+ LD = 0 >+ UO = 600 >+ UCRIT = 10000 >+ UEXP = 0 >+ UTRA = 0 >+ VMAX = 0 >+ NEFF = 1 >+ XQC = 1 >+ KF = 0 >+ AF = 1 >+ FC = .5 >+ DELTA = 0 >+ THETA = 0 >+ ETA = 0 >+ KAPPA = .2 >+ ) >.MODEL DFOR D ( >+ IS = 5.173495E-9 >+ RS = 13.7420803 >+ N = 2.0242147 >+ TT = 9.74E-7 >+ CJO = 7.094324E-11 >+ VJ = 0.6122206 >+ M = 0.2691849 >+ EG = 1.11 >+ XTI = 3 >+ KF = 0 >+ AF = 1 >+ FC = 0.5 >+ BV = 1E5 >+ IBV = .001 >+ ) >.ENDS LM185/27C >* >*$ >* MANUFACTURERS PART NO. = LM185BYH/883 (NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR) >* TYPE: IC_LINEAR >* SUBTYPE: REFERENCE >* THIS FILE CONTAINS A PRE-RAD TEMPERATURE DEPENDENT SPICE2G.6 COMPATIBLE >* MODEL OF THE LM185BYH ADJUSTABLE 1.2-5.3V REF >* CREATION DATE : 11-28-90 >* >* >* LM185 ADJUSTABLE VOLTAGE REFERENCE "MACROMODEL" SUBCIRCUIT >* THIS IS A TRANSISTOR LEVEL MODEL WHICH USES DEFAULT TRANSISTOR VALUES >* (EBER'S MOLL) AND FOLLOWS THE SCHEMATIC OF THE NATIONAL DATA SHEET. Q10 >* (ONE OF THE NPN TRANSISTORS IN THE BANDGAP REFERENCE SECTION) HAS A >SCALING >* FACTOR OF 10. THIS MODEL CAN BE USED WITH A .TEMP CARD. IT ACCURATELY >* SIMULATES CHANGE IN VREF WITH CHANGE IN CURRENT, ZOUT, AND IFEEDBACK. >* >***** CAUTION: THE MODEL EXCEEDS THE PRODUCT SPEC LIMIT FOR VREF AT 25 C BY >* 2 MV AND AT 125 C BY 27 MV FOR IR = 8 UA AND IR = 100 UA. >* >* SINCE THIS IS A TRANSISTOR LEVEL MODEL(WITH 13 TRANSISTORS), CIRCUIT >* SIMULATION TIME IS INCREASED. >* >* CONNECTIONS: PLUS >* | ADJUST >* | | MINUS >* | | | >.SUBCKT LM185 1 5 6 >* >R6 1 2 200E3 >R7 2 3 50E3 >R8 3 4 300E3 >Q14 6 5 4 PNPNOM >Q13 7 7 1 PNPNOM >Q10 7 3 8 NPNNOM 10 >Q9 8 12 6 NPNNOM >Q12 9 7 1 PNPNOM >Q11 9 2 8 NPNNOM >R5 1 12 600E3 >Q8 12 12 6 NPNNOM >Q7 13 9 1 PNPNOM >Q6 13 12 6 NPNNOM >R2 1 14 7.5E3 >Q4 15 15 14 PNPNOM >Q5 15 13 16 NPNNOM >R3 16 6 500 >Q3 17 15 1 PNPNOM >R1 17 6 100E3 >Q1 1 17 6 NPNNOM >C1 17 15 20E-12 >C2 13 9 20E-12 >D1 6 1 DZENER >.MODEL NPNNOM NPN( >+ IS = 1E-16 >+ BF = 100 >+ NF = 1 >+ VAF = 9.9999E+13 >+ IKF = 9.9999E+13 >+ ISE = 0 >+ NE = 1.5 >+ BR = 1 >+ NR = 1 >+ VAR = 9.9999E+13 >+ IKR = 9.9999E+13 >+ ISC = 0 >+ NC = 2 >+ RB = 0 >+ IRB = 9.9999E+13 >+ RBM = 0 >+ RE = 0 >+ RC = 0 >+ CJE = 0 >+ VJE = .75 >+ MJE = .33 >+ TF = 0 >+ XTF = 0 >+ VTF = 9.9999E+13 >+ ITF = 0 >+ PTF = 0 >+ CJC = 0 >+ VJC = .75 >+ MJC = .33 >+ XCJC = 1 >+ TR = 0 >+ CJS = 0 >+ VJS = .75 >+ MJS = 0 >+ XTB = 0 >+ EG = 1.11 >+ XTI = 3 >+ KF = 0 >+ AF = 1 >+ FC = .5 >+ ) >.MODEL PNPNOM PNP( >+ IS = 1E-16 >+ BF = 100 >+ NF = 1 >+ VAF = 9.9999E+13 >+ IKF = 9.9999E+13 >+ ISE = 0 >+ NE = 1.5 >+ BR = 1 >+ NR = 1 >+ VAR = 9.9999E+13 >+ IKR = 9.9999E+13 >+ ISC = 0 >+ NC = 2 >+ RB = 0 >+ IRB = 9.9999E+13 >+ RBM = 0 >+ RE = 0 >+ RC = 0 >+ CJE = 0 >+ VJE = .75 >+ MJE = .33 >+ TF = 0 >+ XTF = 0 >+ VTF = 9.9999E+13 >+ ITF = 0 >+ PTF = 0 >+ CJC = 0 >+ VJC = .75 >+ MJC = .33 >+ XCJC = 1 >+ TR = 0 >+ CJS = 0 >+ VJS = .75 >+ MJS = 0 >+ XTB = 0 >+ EG = 1.11 >+ XTI = 3 >+ KF = 0 >+ AF = 1 >+ FC = .5 >+ ) >.MODEL DZENER D( >+ IS = 1E-14 >+ RS = 0 >+ N = 1 >+ TT = 0 >+ CJO = 0 >+ VJ = 1 >+ M = .5 >+ EG = 1.11 >+ XTI = 3 >+ KF = 0 >+ AF = 1 >+ FC = .5 >+ BV = 6.3 >+ IBV = .001 >+ ) >.ENDS LM185 >*$
...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
In article <8JSIv.25$Y4.3@fx24.iad>, robertbaer@localnet.com says...
> Firstly, only the latest LTSpice IV is available,and sources insist > only WinXP "or better" will run it. > So tried to get old SwitcherCAD III; unobtanium. > Said, WTF, loaded the LTSpice IV exe, ran it; looks OK - no errors > anyway. > > BUT I have this National Semiconductor Spice file and it barfs on it > "Unknown schematic syntax .SUBCKT LM185/27C 99 2" and do not knowhow to > fix that. > Copy of listing below (260 lines). > * MANUFACTURERS PART NO. = LM185BYH/883 (NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR) > * TYPE: IC_LINEAR > >
I run the latest on W2k, old PC here, it works fine however, I do see a possible issue... You could try this.. spice directive on the sheet.. .lib "LM185/27C 99 2.sub" The file system maybe having problems with the "/" and "spaces". Don't try that on an old 98 machine. You may want to edit the subckt and change the name to a solid type. At the end of your file I notice you have a "*$" or something like that, you may want to delete that line. Jamie
On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 18:20:05 -0700, Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com>  
wrote:

> Firstly, only the latest LTSpice IV is available,and sources insist > only WinXP "or better" will run it. > So tried to get old SwitcherCAD III; unobtanium. > Said, WTF, loaded the LTSpice IV exe, ran it; looks OK - no errors > anyway. > > BUT I have this National Semiconductor Spice file and it barfs on it > "Unknown schematic syntax .SUBCKT LM185/27C 99 2" and do not knowhow to > fix that. > Copy of listing below (260 lines). > * MANUFACTURERS PART NO. = LM185BYH/883 (NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR) >> ...snip.... > .SUBCKT LM185/27C 99 2 > D1 2 99 DLEAK > R1 2 99 1E12 > R2 6 99 0.12 >> ...snip... > .ENDS LM185/27C > * > *$ > * MANUFACTURERS PART NO. = LM185BYH/883 (NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR) >> ..snip... > * SINCE THIS IS A TRANSISTOR LEVEL MODEL(WITH 13 TRANSISTORS), CIRCUIT > * SIMULATION TIME IS INCREASED. > * > * CONNECTIONS: PLUS > * | ADJUST > * | | MINUS > * | | | > .SUBCKT LM185 1 5 6 > * >> ...snip...
Why does the /27C only have two connections? The next one has 3 connections, as expected. I run LTspiceon ALL the Win98's around here, and the most recently updated seems to work fine. I don't recommend using a copy of SWcadIII, I have one if you want it, but if it is installed it 'interferferes' with some of the great features in the recent version, best to simply remove it, or not have it. If you want, you can make a simple TEST netlist for LTspice by using a text editor and adding a few line in front and naming the file ending in .cir As long as you don't have OrCAD installed, or something that uses .cir it will open with LTspice by double clicking. Or, you can reference the subcircuit text as .lib on your schematic and LTspice will use it that way, too.
Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. wrote:
> In article<8JSIv.25$Y4.3@fx24.iad>, robertbaer@localnet.com says... >> Firstly, only the latest LTSpice IV is available,and sources insist >> only WinXP "or better" will run it. >> So tried to get old SwitcherCAD III; unobtanium. >> Said, WTF, loaded the LTSpice IV exe, ran it; looks OK - no errors >> anyway. >> >> BUT I have this National Semiconductor Spice file and it barfs on it >> "Unknown schematic syntax .SUBCKT LM185/27C 99 2" and do not knowhow to >> fix that. >> Copy of listing below (260 lines). >> * MANUFACTURERS PART NO. = LM185BYH/883 (NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR) >> * TYPE: IC_LINEAR >> >> > > I run the latest on W2k, old PC here, it works fine however, I do see > a possible issue... > > You could try this.. > > spice directive on the sheet.. > > .lib "LM185/27C 99 2.sub" > > The file system maybe having problems with the "/" and "spaces". > > Don't try that on an old 98 machine. > > You may want to edit the subckt and change the name to a solid type. > > At the end of your file I notice you have a "*$" or something like > that, you may want to delete that line. > > Jamie >
Thanks; will try that.
RobertMacy wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 18:20:05 -0700, Robert Baer > <robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote: > >> Firstly, only the latest LTSpice IV is available,and sources insist >> only WinXP "or better" will run it. >> So tried to get old SwitcherCAD III; unobtanium. >> Said, WTF, loaded the LTSpice IV exe, ran it; looks OK - no errors >> anyway. >> >> BUT I have this National Semiconductor Spice file and it barfs on it >> "Unknown schematic syntax .SUBCKT LM185/27C 99 2" and do not knowhow >> to fix that. >> Copy of listing below (260 lines). >> * MANUFACTURERS PART NO. = LM185BYH/883 (NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR) >>> ...snip.... >> .SUBCKT LM185/27C 99 2 >> D1 2 99 DLEAK >> R1 2 99 1E12 >> R2 6 99 0.12 >>> ...snip... >> .ENDS LM185/27C >> * >> *$ >> * MANUFACTURERS PART NO. = LM185BYH/883 (NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR) >>> ..snip... >> * SINCE THIS IS A TRANSISTOR LEVEL MODEL(WITH 13 TRANSISTORS), CIRCUIT >> * SIMULATION TIME IS INCREASED. >> * >> * CONNECTIONS: PLUS >> * | ADJUST >> * | | MINUS >> * | | | >> .SUBCKT LM185 1 5 6 >> * >>> ...snip... > > Why does the /27C only have two connections? > > The next one has 3 connections, as expected. > > I run LTspiceon ALL the Win98's around here, and the most recently > updated seems to work fine. > > I don't recommend using a copy of SWcadIII, I have one if you want it, > but if it is installed it 'interferferes' with some of the great > features in the recent version, best to simply remove it, or not have it. > > If you want, you can make a simple TEST netlist for LTspice by using a > text editor and adding a few line in front and naming the file ending in > .cir > > As long as you don't have OrCAD installed, or something that uses .cir > it will open with LTspice by double clicking. > > Or, you can reference the subcircuit text as .lib on your schematic and > LTspice will use it that way, too.
Beats me on the 2 connections, maybe that is for the fixed voltage version. Thanks.